Steve, you need the relax a bit. I think we can discuss gameplay issues without slinging insults.
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Europa Universalis was a board game before it became a computer game too.StevenGoodman said:
I'm not sure which WW2 board game you have in mind but they've all had their share of problems. Third Reich was redone in an Advanced format. World in Flames has had many editions, revisions and add-ons. Axis and Allies likewise seems to have spawned a family of variants and versions.
Those board games often use the same engine or components - hexagons, combat-results tables, dice, zones of control, etc. And these are often the same, regardless of the period.
Such games have interesting and useful features but it's surely best for a computer game to be designed for the different medium in which it is expressed - the mouse, keyboard and screen. HoI seems a reasonably good design in this respect, even if it still has some rough edges.
The best thing about HoI and HoI2 is that they exist, rather than being vapourware like computer WiF, say. This gives us something to complain about
Andrew
"Le mieux est l'ennemi du bien." - Voltaire
Johan should add a few people to his ignore list as I will.... :wacko:
Edit: wow...that worked a treat!
Edit: wow...that worked a treat!
StevenGoodman said:
Because as much as I seem to agree with you on some issues (e.g. AI seems still not capable of successfully handling encirclements and is sending piecemeal reserves), your continous rambling drove me to find out how to *Plonk* someone on these forums.
I did find out, so don't bother to reply.
Somehow I'm not surprised you dont have anything to do at Xmas: who would want to be around you at this time fo the year? And since you dont intend to buy the game, why just dont you go away and leave us alone? I dont understand why you have not been banned yet, but your criticism is anything but constructive and insulting Johan was completely out of place. I guess you are one of those immature teenagers that take advantage of the fact that posting on a forum is such an anonymous act to write anything you feel like. Too bad, you might have had something useful to say, but it gets lost in all the stupidity your posts are full of. I suggest that you try to write your next post (I dont doubt you will and that you will probably bash me) like if the person(s) you are writing to were in front of you. The tone of your post would likely be more appropriate.
I feel sorry that Johan has already started modifying the game, even though we have only played the demo. Fixing exploit is certainly not bad, but changing game concepts while we have not had the chance to see their impact on a large scale campaign is something else entirely. Three main issues that were adressed frequently in this thread:
1) The one hour reconnaissance attack: an exploit, no doubt about it, but hardly a game breaker imho. In single player, just dont use it (and if you do, dont complain). In multiplayer, pausing right after an attack has begun would be noticed by the other players. Without pausing, it would be difficult to check the battle stats and tell the attacking unit to break off the attack before two hours have gone by. In any case, it is a good thing that this exploit will be fixed, thanks to the constructive criticism of Fiendix, Silverdragon and several others.
2) The silmultaneous arrival of the attacking units is very debatable. In WW2, it seldom occured. On the contrary, most of the time the different commanders raced against each other to arrive first at the target (a city generally). Patton/Montgomery to Messina and Joukov/Konev to Berlin come to mind. It was the norm rather than the exception and, consequently, the lead unit often had to face counterattack. I personnally found that feature to be highly enjoyable and very easy to manage (without grouping large stack together). I made sure that my HQ would not arrive alone and tried, as much as possible, to have several small groups arrived at the same time. I got pushed back several times, but overall, I think it gave a flow of attack/counterattack to the game that felt much more realistic than HOI1. A matter of taste I presume. I can live with either systems anyway.
3) I really like the air mission concept. I would prefer to have a dynamic area (you choose one province and your planes fly missions in the area delimited by the province you chose and all the provinces neighboring it) when ordering a mission, like it has been proposed before, but for the rest, the present system will solve a lot of problems (overstacking on a single province comes to mind) met in multiplayer and will also make it more difficult to get air superiority in single player imho. I am not sure about being able to target one single province. Of course it would be useful for the player, but would it be realistic? 1000 and more planes (stacks of 12, so often seen in HOI1) focusing in one single province? There surely was a reason why this 'tactic' was not used more often in WW2. Besides, in the demo, as the allies, I have often seen 16 and even 20/25 planes bombing Cologne (and other provinces). Besides, I noticed (not sure if it was a coincidence) that almost every time I launch a land attack on a German province, some planes came to support the attack. Might have been my imagination, but it is more probable that air mission against provinces where land combat takes place have a higher priority.
All in all, the HOI2 demo has been very enjoyable to me. I am not surprised that some people feel that some things need to be changed, but I have noticed that most complaints come from those persons' feeling of a lack of control over the different elements of the game (points 2 and 3 above meet that criteria). I feel very comfortable with not having absolute control over everything. In fact, I feel much more like a WW2 overall commander. It is completely unrealistic to expect things to go exactly as you expected them or ordered them to. No plan survives the field of battle and being able to do the most with the unpredictable events that comes along is one of the qualities that makes a good commander. Again, it is a matter of taste I guess.
Regards
Ghis
P.S. I just thought of a problem the simultaneous arrival might cause: imagine three stacks (A, B and C) attacking a single province. They win and are en route to the province. The defending player has a big stack rushing to defend the province, but it will arrive too late. So he orders some divisions in an adjacent province to attack one of the attacking stack (say stack A). Since the arrival must be simultaneous, stack B and C will stop their advance to wait for stack A, which might give time for the defender to bring his big stack in the province. In this example, it might have been better for the attacker to see stack B and C take the province and, eventually, defend it against the defender's big stack. Anyway, there will probably be more effects and causes like that that we will discover with time! Cheers!
Camrik said:P.S. I just thought of a problem the simultaneous arrival might cause: imagine three stacks (A, B and C) attacking a single province. They win and are en route to the province. The defending player has a big stack rushing to defend the province, but it will arrive too late. So he orders some divisions in an adjacent province to attack one of the attacking stack (say stack A). Since the arrival must be simultaneous, stack B and C will stop their advance to wait for stack A, which might give time for the defender to bring his big stack in the province. In this example, it might have been better for the attacker to see stack B and C take the province and, eventually, defend it against the defender's big stack. Anyway, there will probably be more effects and causes like that that we will discover with time! Cheers!
If it follows the HoI precedent, when you set a desired unified arrival time and one unit is held up by enemy action it does not change the rest who will continue with the original mission. Units also do not cease moving if attacked in HoI2, they will just fight on the march.
Its very likely that the player will still need to watch the situation and act, but only in those cases where the enemy does something new to change the equation.
Actually, its interesting idea. I wonder if it could be combined with intelligence and reconnaisance so defender would sometimes know in advance of the incoming attack.SilverDragon 72 said:
Sgt. Bulldog said:
With the exception of a few nearly impassable areas in SE Asia, the front lines were almost never anywhere near 100 km apart. Stop thinking in the old HOI1 terms of moving from the center of one province to the center of the neighboring one. This works for movement but the units should be pictured as spreading out along the border rather than clumped in the center.
Most of the front line troops were within 1km of the enemy when they were on the line. Even when rotated to the rear to rest, they probably were less than 10 km away.
Brentor said:
Actually, Johan says he's had MiA on his to do list since he made HoI.
StevenGoodman said:CTD may be rare, but they should be ZERO. It shouldn't be hard to run Vicky (
That is such crap. Every game CTDs. Mozillia CTDs. Windows CTDS.
Johan said:
enjoy ! let's have a drink then, and take down some of those little grey cells!
Darkrenown said:
Well, technically Windows can't CTD, but we've all seen the Blue Screen of Death a time or two...
Steve...what the hell? Are you just trying to be the biggest ass possible?
Of course the devs (and betas) play the game, that doesn't mean anyone knows everything about it. We're all human, none of us are perfect. If Johan notices a bug, or one if reported to him, e does his best to fix it, even while he's on his goddamn xmas holidays! You clearly have no idea of the work that went into making HoI2 or the thousands and thousands of bugfixes. Sorry we're not omnipotent like you, Steve. Hey, maybe you can make a game one day? I'd like that, since then it'd be perfect, I look forward to it.
Did you have them set to ground attack rather than interdiction (which will support your attacks)? And no, I can't think of any reason why you might want to kill the HQ unit giving large bonuses to all nearby German units...
Jeez, if you hate the game so much just leave or at least quit whining. You don't think the game will be any good? Great, don't buy it! Go play your magical, perfect game instead.
StevenGoodman said:
Of course the devs (and betas) play the game, that doesn't mean anyone knows everything about it. We're all human, none of us are perfect. If Johan notices a bug, or one if reported to him, e does his best to fix it, even while he's on his goddamn xmas holidays! You clearly have no idea of the work that went into making HoI2 or the thousands and thousands of bugfixes. Sorry we're not omnipotent like you, Steve. Hey, maybe you can make a game one day? I'd like that, since then it'd be perfect, I look forward to it.
StevenGoodman said:
Did you have them set to ground attack rather than interdiction (which will support your attacks)? And no, I can't think of any reason why you might want to kill the HQ unit giving large bonuses to all nearby German units...
StevenGoodman said:
Jeez, if you hate the game so much just leave or at least quit whining. You don't think the game will be any good? Great, don't buy it! Go play your magical, perfect game instead.
Granted, you can be 42 and be immatureFiendix said:the guy is 42 you know..... hardly an immature teenager.
F
Technically it not windows that cases the CTD
, it the application that causes windows to crash it to desktop, well that the microsoft pitch anyway Cheers, Ice
Fiendix said:the guy is 42 you know..... hardly an immature teenager.
F
Well, now at least he knows what he looks like when he writes a bunch of posts like that. Geeezzz... You do whine and rant a lot Fiendix, but there is always something constructive in your posts and your tone is always correct.
Ah, good to know and thanks for the info!
Ghis
Here we go again
I have not played the Demo nor do I intend to do so. So my comments are not about the merits or otherwise of the gameplay issues raised in this thread.
So Johan has "collapsed" and agreed to make an ad-hoc, on-the-fly change to the game. This is even BEFORE the game has been released.
A bug fix I can understand. But a design change? No-one has yet had an opportunity to play the full game. I haven't even played the Demo. Why the haste? Surely a more considered approach is required.
HOI had a large number of patches. Arguable the changes made in 1.06 made the game worse!
Please, let's not go down that road again.
I have not played the Demo nor do I intend to do so. So my comments are not about the merits or otherwise of the gameplay issues raised in this thread.
So Johan has "collapsed" and agreed to make an ad-hoc, on-the-fly change to the game. This is even BEFORE the game has been released.
A bug fix I can understand. But a design change? No-one has yet had an opportunity to play the full game. I haven't even played the Demo. Why the haste? Surely a more considered approach is required.
HOI had a large number of patches. Arguable the changes made in 1.06 made the game worse!
Please, let's not go down that road again.