Gwalcmai said:
Yes - recon - I thought that people will look at it that way - but in this way its a plain exploit. You might as well allow the enemy to just click and look over your stack..
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Yes - recon - I thought that people will look at it that way - but in this way its a plain exploit. You might as well allow the enemy to just click and look over your stack..
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Brentor said:
How do you figure it's a 'top priority'? It can be used in single player by constantly pausing but personally I've never felt the need to use such exploits against the AI and would consider it a complete waste of time. In MP I don't see this being used at all. Also you can gain scouting information through normal intel or simply bombing a stack.
No, actually 'Movement is Attack' was part of the original HoI 2 design docs long before Dean posted his suggestion (here) in the HoI 2 forum
Steel said:
Yah, I don't need much to "exploit" the AI, but it sure made beating the AI trivial in the Demo.
In MP it is still useable, if there is enough "real time" to cancel all the attacks? And better than a stupid bombimg mission; since a bombing mission may not go where you want (given the new air model) and intel won't tell you Org or Str levels?
Steel said:
Steel come on - at least make the unit have to be reorganized (not move for 24 hrs) or lose a little org for breaking off so quickly. By bombing the stack you still dont know how eff the units would be against your land ones. This way you can attack - see that it does not look good - and break off and attack somebody else.
Can u try out in MP if such an attack if made cause the neighbouring armies to on reserve missions to move? If so this might be a devious trick to attack for 1 hr - make the neighbouring units move and then attack that province...?
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Fiendix said::rofl: :rofl:
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Glad someone liked it!
I think the new, wonderfully thought out and well designed air model is great. A wonderful addition to modern society. An addition guaranteed to generate Democracy in the eastern world, but hopefully not the western world.
Wait did I just say that? Aaa aahah a haha hhaaaaaa a aa aaa
Hehe I just imagined Goering telling his commanders to bomb Antwerp and they go off and bomb Brussels first get beat up and not be able to do their mission... I wonder what you have happened to the commanders
Or how the commanders would explain to Goering that they CANT defend Antwerp and Eindhowen with intercetors at the same time as the maps they have indicate its not part of the same sector. Its either this or that..
Maybe it would be a funny AAR ?
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Or how the commanders would explain to Goering that they CANT defend Antwerp and Eindhowen with intercetors at the same time as the maps they have indicate its not part of the same sector
. Its either this or that..Maybe it would be a funny AAR ?
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Brentor said:
I am sorry, I used to like MathGuy. Hopefully, if he is the reason combat mods are now MULTIPLIED instead of SUMMED he is still around. But the actual implementation of of Intstant Attack is horrible.
MiA is bogus, it has nothing to do with movement, since you can and often cancel the movement after the combat. Instant Attack is a better description?
Yea I agree with you. The feeling I have is that P. thinks up all these ideas but they dont have enough time to actually sit down and play the game. Then all the silly issues come out. That has been happening since the EU. More playtesting is needed. I understand that its time consuming, but couldnt they get 2-4 new betas every now and then who would play the game with a fresh mind / only have access to a special forum so that they dont get "polluted" by others and say what they like or not. Good at least they gave out the DEMO so we can "help" out . One just wonders what else we have done. Oh well I am ordering my game today as I finally got me CC fixed . Happy me .
BTW I like the multiplication of combat mods - a least always gives the weaker side a chance now.. good choice on that.
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. One just wonders what else we have done. Oh well I am ordering my game today as I finally got me CC fixed . Happy me .BTW I like the multiplication of combat mods - a least always gives the weaker side a chance now.. good choice on that.
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I have a hard time believeing that such a blatant exploit made it through beta. Sure betatesters don't have much say on things, but there were bunches of experienced HOI players in there AFAIK. They would point out such an exploit right away.
So either this option is there deliberately because it is a part of a functioning concept OR the full version is different from the demo on this point.
Any other case would seriosuly rock my faith in Paradox...
So either this option is there deliberately because it is a part of a functioning concept OR the full version is different from the demo on this point.
Any other case would seriosuly rock my faith in Paradox...
Sgt. Bulldog said:
1> Don't assume the betas actual understand game design.
2> Don't assume Paradox actually understands design! Sorry Johan.
3> By the time the beta was announced, etc, a lot of the design seemed sunk in concrete, or the equivalent in Sweden. Comments on the Forums months ago were "you think there is any change of fixing X"? The chance of fixing it before March is small; odds are most major things won't ever be fixed (based on HOI1 and Vichy) are small. Although there have been some nice improvements in Vichy.
4> Blatant problems often get by Paradox. I found a CTD in the most recent release of Vichy almost immediately. Johan whined about my complaint, claiming it was just a "beta" patch. He did a VERY NICE job of fixing the CTD; but it is STILL a beta patch. So, Johan, when does the non-BETA version of the patch come out? I am still waiting, since I decline to play beta patches (from now on).
5> Mostly, Paradox seems to have to final QA function. Seems everyone says "good to go", but no one actually checks. Everyone just gets together and say "yep, all ready to go"?
Oh well, in another 10 years they might get it right?
I understand you mean vicky ?
I agree with want you say although I am more optimistic about them getting it right. CTD's are much rarer than before - thats good - now only balancing and a well thought out concept (to stand the bashing and exploiting of harcore fanatics) is needed. Its nice to see that even though at times we have to moan about something a lot - they do seem to realize it and fix the problem. Pity though its such a tough fight. However I understand that ever since we started doing our own database for my company. The main programmer is brilliant, but when I tell him that we should change something he always does not want to do it. Explaining to him why and what errors and exploits clients will make if its not fixed is an uphill battle. However at the end of the day we get to the same conclusion... Just the feeling I have with P.
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?I agree with want you say although I am more optimistic about them getting it right. CTD's are much rarer than before - thats good - now only balancing and a well thought out concept (to stand the bashing and exploiting of harcore fanatics) is needed. Its nice to see that even though at times we have to moan about something a lot - they do seem to realize it and fix the problem. Pity though its such a tough fight. However I understand that ever since we started doing our own database for my company. The main programmer is brilliant, but when I tell him that we should change something he always does not want to do it. Explaining to him why and what errors and exploits clients will make if its not fixed is an uphill battle. However at the end of the day we get to the same conclusion... Just the feeling I have with P.
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@StevenGoodman: don't have the heard to say you're wrong before I played the game actually - but from what I've seen in the demo P. seems to get much better with every new game...
...but on the other hand HOI2 is a sequel so the parts reused from HOI should be more or less ok...
...and the problems seems to occure with the new concepts: especiall MiA, air-missions and probably naval comabt what we all haven't seen so far...
...as I really like these new concepts - they doesn't seemed to be well-thought implemented...
- air-mission could be fixed quickly - just add the option to target a single province
- but for MiA - I really hope P. sits back after the first feed-back and rethinks/improves this concept without cancelling it completely, cause it could be a great improvement when designed a little bit more sophisticated!
- naval-combat: lets see what will happen - but I would be positivly surprised if it runs directly out of the box!
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@StevenGoodman: don't have the heard to say you're wrong before I played the game actually - but from what I've seen in the demo P. seems to get much better with every new game...
...but on the other hand HOI2 is a sequel so the parts reused from HOI should be more or less ok...
...and the problems seems to occure with the new concepts: especiall MiA, air-missions and probably naval comabt what we all haven't seen so far...
...as I really like these new concepts - they doesn't seemed to be well-thought implemented...
- air-mission could be fixed quickly - just add the option to target a single province
- but for MiA - I really hope P. sits back after the first feed-back and rethinks/improves this concept without cancelling it completely, cause it could be a great improvement when designed a little bit more sophisticated!
- naval-combat: lets see what will happen - but I would be positivly surprised if it runs directly out of the box!
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Fiendix said:
Why not just have combat 'locked' for a minimum timeframe, like naval combat in HOI1? This would also have the bonus of allowing troops to inflict damage on an opponent that breaks instantly.
- Dec 14, 1999
- 18.408
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Ironically the exploit was never discovered by any beta (or at least never reported to me.) I just checked it (and I'm supposed to be on an xmas holiday now), and it will be fixed for 1.01.
However, there are plenty of things I wish to adress here now.
1) If you want to rant like that, you don't score alot of points or make anyone more likely to listen to your proposals. We're human beings and are much more likely to read the posts of someone being polite, than someone writing insults like "you dont understand and just whine".
For example. Take Fiendix here.. He argued alot against at the piecemeal arrival of forces depending on speed and wanted the possibility to give a synchronized arrival order. I don't agree on it myself that it improves the game, but that feature has now been added to the code for 1.01.
2) The weather mapmode is completely different from terrain mapmode for a REASON. Its absolutely vital to see the changes in winter and mud as they roll around when you fight long campaigns. Terrain would be obscured most of the time anyway, and those are static and you learn them after a while. This won't change no matter how many posts someone not interested in buying the game is writing here.
3) Airmissions are areabased and will stay that way.
Yes, there are advantages and disadvantages.. I agree that the border between areas can create awkward situations at times, but all other solutions would be even less userfriendly.
One important thing also is that the province-targetting algoritms are NOT designed to kamikaze aircrafts, and will select the targets that give you the most RoI.
And finally.. its christmas time.. take some time off from the computer, meet your friends and relatives..
However, there are plenty of things I wish to adress here now.
1) If you want to rant like that, you don't score alot of points or make anyone more likely to listen to your proposals. We're human beings and are much more likely to read the posts of someone being polite, than someone writing insults like "you dont understand and just whine".
For example. Take Fiendix here.. He argued alot against at the piecemeal arrival of forces depending on speed and wanted the possibility to give a synchronized arrival order. I don't agree on it myself that it improves the game, but that feature has now been added to the code for 1.01.
2) The weather mapmode is completely different from terrain mapmode for a REASON. Its absolutely vital to see the changes in winter and mud as they roll around when you fight long campaigns. Terrain would be obscured most of the time anyway, and those are static and you learn them after a while. This won't change no matter how many posts someone not interested in buying the game is writing here.
3) Airmissions are areabased and will stay that way.
Yes, there are advantages and disadvantages.. I agree that the border between areas can create awkward situations at times, but all other solutions would be even less userfriendly.
One important thing also is that the province-targetting algoritms are NOT designed to kamikaze aircrafts, and will select the targets that give you the most RoI.
And finally.. its christmas time.. take some time off from the computer, meet your friends and relatives..
SilverDragon 72 said:
I agree about the airmission feature, but it feels like we have to wait and try out MiA ourselfs before screaming fix this!
Cant belive all the betas have played the game with this feature and liked it s0 much, and that it still would require an instant fix. I hope not anyway...
- Dec 14, 1999
- 18.408
- 38.945
There will never be an "target single province" option for the air system.
If that means you'll not buy the game, then fine.
If that means you'll not buy the game, then fine.
Fiendix said:I understand you mean vicky
CTD's are much rarer than before - thats good - now only balancing and a well thought out concept (to stand the bashing and exploiting of harcore fanatics) is needed.
The main programmer is brilliant, but when I tell him that we should change something he always does not want to do it. Explaining to him why and what errors and exploits clients will make if its not fixed is an uphill battle. However at the end of the day we get to the same conclusion... Just the feeling I have with P.
CTD may be rare, but they should be ZERO. It shouldn't be hard to run Vicky (
who?) though a couple of times to catch the CTDs. "real" software should have a reasonable QA before release; catching basic CTDs is trivial QA.I am sorry, no one at Paradox is a brilliant programmer or even a brilliant designer. HOI1 and hopefully HOI2 are better than previous computer versions of WW2, but there are much better WW2 board games, but no one plays them anymore; or even seems to use them for research in current WW2 computer games.
Hey Paradox, how much to come to Sweden and design a really good game? But I want Silicon Valley money, got to come home to nice weather.
Johan said:
I have already bought it and im fine with it
its one feature i dont like, i can live with that...
1) Hurrah! I really think this could make the AI more competent, which is always a good thing.
3) Can we continue to build a case for having dynamic areas surrounding the province you select rather than fixed border regions or is that equally considered out of the question?
Merry Christmas to everyone at Paradox. I hope you haven't regretted releasing that demo. Its filled me with a lot of confidence that HoI2 is going to be a great game to play, even if so many of us want to niggle around at the edges to make it a little bit better (strictly in our opinions, of course)
3) Can we continue to build a case for having dynamic areas surrounding the province you select rather than fixed border regions or is that equally considered out of the question?
Merry Christmas to everyone at Paradox. I hope you haven't regretted releasing that demo. Its filled me with a lot of confidence that HoI2 is going to be a great game to play, even if so many of us want to niggle around at the edges to make it a little bit better (strictly in our opinions, of course
)