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Spenny91

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So, should I build motorised only? Or merge them with tanks. I was think 3 MOT, 3 MOT, 2 SPART, 1 M TD, and support: field hospital, signal, recon, eng., logistics? Good or bad? I'm germany, and I'm not to sure. The strat I'm going for is having mostly infantry with certain areas with mobile divisions to breakthrough and encircle.
 

Sir Garnet

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Medium chassis SPART and TDs give some very useful armor and piercing (might get SPAA as well) at hafl the price of armor, but I would want to have at least one armor battalion with the motor infantry as well. Even so, it is a pursuit/exploitation/overrun divisions rather than for breakthrough of prepared positions on its own, which depending on doctrine would I think be better made with heavy infantry and armor divisions.
 

evilcat

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For moto/mecha maintainence could be better than logistic.
You can have two design, one pure moto speed 12 to move on victory points and just sit there untill more forcess come. Speed 12 sometimes is useful.
And then tank division with like 4x Moto/Mecha +6 tanks
 

Klausewitz

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I always put at least some tanks in.
Light tanks can move as fast as the moto but they had vital armor protection.
Remember:
Unpierced armor effectivly doubles your strngth and org, while hard attack tends to be a fraction of soft attack prior to the AT-upgrades for infatry weapons in 1943,44.
 
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Denkt

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6 tanks sound like overkill, for most purpose I think you can get by with 3 or even 2 and instead get alot of self propelled artillery.
 

Klausewitz

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Mine are typically 2 light tanks and 4 mot to begin and then they get slowly buffed out with SP-Arty (no more than two) in the tank company and Mots till the mark hits 20 width.
Usually 2 Light tanks, 2 Sp ART, 5 Mot which in late game with Medium tanks 3, upgrade for speed, i go for 4 med armor + 6 mot.
 

Beagá

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Light tanks get obsolete fast without upgrades, and using 1941 slot in them is pointless. Use medium tanks only with reliability and other upgrades in the armored divisions and leave motorized with other kinds of brigades that are just as fast, just not light tanks.
 

Pro_Consul

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To my thinking there is more to this decision than has been said so far, more variables in play that is, hence no one-size-fits-all or "best" design template. Some of the factors and their effects:

1. What country is being played? This will, to a large extent, determine how expensive a template you can make while still being cost effective.

2. What kind of ground war strategy are you intending to employ. This is potentially the single most important factor. It determines how these divisions will be employed, and thus it defines which stats they need and which they can live happily without. Example, if your strategy involves using large numbers of such divisions spread evenly to execute a fast-paced overrun offensive across an entire front, then you likely need to keep costs down so you can afford to build the required numbers. But you also need to make them powerful enough to quickly defeat enemy infantry divisions without expending too much of their own org doing it. This will determine whether and how much SPART, ART, LARM, and/or ARM to include in the template. And if these units are going to be used to hold open exploitation corridors, then ENG companies are also indicated.

3. What kind of enemy are you facing. This goes hand in hand with 2 above. If these guys are going against an enemy that will bring a lot of armor to bear against you, e.g. USA attacking Germany, you had better have some good piercing and hard attack, e.g. SPAT brigades.

4. Where are you going with these guys? If you plan to use these in large numbers to advance all the way to the Urals, they need to have a relatively low logistical draw, so fully upgraded log companies are indicated, and paring down high log elements like armor might also be wise.

5. What does your manpower situation look like? If it is plentiful, then you might use more MOT brigades and less of the more expensive (in equipment) elements, so that you can spam them and repair them without requiring a huge investment in hardware. Conversely if manpower is short but industrial capacity high, then you would be well served by beefing them up with more tanks, more artillery, etc., trading high cost for lower MP requirements and lower casualties. And of course field hospitals would also be a good idea.

And so on. The best advice is to learn how the different elements affect performance and cost, and then weigh your situation and strategy to craft a solution specific to your needs. One size fits all solutions tend to fit nobody very well, especially in this game.

For now, I'd say, "Tell us more!". You are playing Germany, so that is good info. But how many of these things do you plan to build, how do you think you'll end up employing them, and where? The more info you give us about your situation, the better advice you're likely to get.
 
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Spenny91

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To my thinking there is more to this decision than has been said so far, more variables in play that is, hence no one-size-fits-all or "best" design template. Some of the factors and their effects:
For now, I'd say, "Tell us more!". You are playing Germany, so that is good info. But how many of these things do you plan to build, how do you think you'll end up employing them, and where? The more info you give us about your situation, the better advice you're likely to get.

Well... idk. This is probably not even close to the best way to do it, but I had 4 air wings each of CAS and TAC bombers made up of 50 planes flying over poland, was gonna have a southern army of 40 infantry to push through forest and mobile in the north. 3 light panzers, some motorized (whatever I can get out before war in summer 1939), and some medium armor divisions (2 MARM, 2MARM, 2 MOT, 1 SPART, 1 M TD, support: every support thing (not Mp) except field hospital and anti air instead). The north has a clear path of field to poland. I did this fairly well, taking poland in 2 weeks, I don't go for scandinavia because it's so fucking hard (maybe just me, but norway is ridiculous, hoi3 I would paradrop a division on oslo and annex them lmao), then go through the lowlands with the Mobile army of about 20 divisions (10 panzer, 10 mot). I had a problem though, where they joined the allies before I am ready, and I took them anyway but couldn't push into France because of an ungodly amount of allied divisions. This was March 1940. For the most part I maintain air superiority in germany, not necessarily in Beneleux and certainly not in France. Production is stretched very thing, between TD, SPART, MARM, and fighters. This is sort of just turning into Germany advice, but like. Whatever :D

What am I doing wrong? And what should my research strategy be concerning paratroopers and marines? Paratroopers were used in the lowlands invasion I know. Thanks for any advice. lol
 

Wraith11B

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I just wish that I could assign SP-Arty to a motorized infantry brigade. It seems like an oversight that I cannot. Even if it has to be a light tank chassis to meet the qualification, it should be an option.
 

Klausewitz

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I just wish that I could assign SP-Arty to a motorized infantry brigade. It seems like an oversight that I cannot. Even if it has to be a light tank chassis to meet the qualification, it should be an option.
Use mot rocket arty.
 

Pro_Consul

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What am I doing wrong?

A few things jumped out at me. First off, the air wings. Use wings of 100, not 50. So instead of 2 wings of 50 CAS each and 2 wings of 50 TAC each, use 1 wing of 100 CAS and 1 of 100 TAC. The reason is because 100 seems to be the magic number for creating ace pilots. You should also add at least a couple wings of fighters, again 100 per wing. Air superiority provides bonuses for ground combat, regardless of any bombing missions that may or may not be happening at the same time. And nothing provides air superiority as well as fighters.

Adding TDs is a redundant expense in a division that already has four tank brigades. Your hard attack and piercing are coming from the tanks, and 4 brigades should provide plenty for your purposes, so the TDs are overkill. Besides, the Poles aren't going to be opposing you with real armor anyway, so why the extra piercing and hard attack? You would be better served to trade that TD for a second SPART, or eliminate it altogether to lower the division cost.

As for production, I'd advise cutting the TD production line out of the picture. You don't need them. SPAA is also useless if you just keep a healthy fighter cover to maintain air superiority, so don't bother with that if you were considering it.

Try to design your combat division templates in such a manner that their combat width is either 10 or 20. This will help to minimize the number of times that an important fighting division is forced to sit out of a fight because of insufficient frontage. So taking all the above into consideration, that MARM divison template would change from 2xMARM, 2xMARM, 2xMOT, 1xSPART, 1xTD to 2xMARM, 2xMARM, 3xMOT, 2xSPART. This would give you ideal frontage of 20, lots of breakthrough, armor, hard attack, and piercing from the 4 MARMs, a decent amount of defense from the MOTs and SPART, and buttloads of soft attack for rapidly squishing infantry divisions without expending much org.

As for support companies, a lot of players swear by them and say you should use darned near all of them except the sucky AA ones. I disagree and declare all those people to be puny mortals! :p Or something. Seriously though, I would say there are really only 2 types I think you should consider for those armor divs of yours, at least in the early years: engineers and recon. Later, when you are preparing to turn your war machine against the Soviets, you would want to edit the template to add logistics and possibly field hospitals as well, but neither is much use until you get them to at least level 2. Remember that most of those support companies lower the division's org, and right now without the higher land doctrines, your org is starting pretty low already.

For your MOT divs, I would suggest something like 4xMOT, 3xMOT, 3xMOT, again with engineers and recon initially but also with support arty, then adding logistics and possibly hospitals later once the techs for each are at a higher level. The reason I include no tanks in this template is specific to your situation: you are already employing armored divisions in the same operational zone where you are deploying the MOTs to battle, so let the armor divisions deal with the enemy armor and let the MOTs act as the defensive counter to your armored divs, i.e. to hold interior provinces your tanks seize and hold open a supply corridor for the tanks, or to attack things tanks are poor at, like urban zones. Treat your MOT as what they really are, motorized infantry.

As for turning this into a Germany advice thread: bah! It's your thread, since you're the OP. Use it as you like! That's my advice. ;)

And what should my research strategy be concerning paratroopers and marines?

Marines, probably none. I am guessing you aren't planning enough amphibious operations to make them worth even researching. But if I am wrong, build no more than 40 frontage worth of them. But if you build them, find uses for them. A few I could recommend: Sea Lion (of course); if you get a Med port, taking Malta and possibly even Gibraltar; during Barbarossa, grabbing the port nearest to Leningrad early on, shoving in some MOT and INF, and seizing Leningrad by coup-de-main while the front line is still in Poland.

Paras you seem to have a grasp on already. Use them to quickly grab key points you cannot readily reach by land, then roll/sail in with reinforcements to make use of their drop zone before the enemy has a chance to muster enough force to dislodge or destroy them. Just remember that you MUST maintain air superiority both before and during their active deployment, or they will be rendered either useless or, worse, dead. That means air superiority over the place you intend to drop them, of course.
 

Spenny91

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As for support companies, a lot of players swear by them and say you should use darned near all of them except the sucky AA ones. I disagree and declare all those people to be puny mortals! :p Or something. Seriously though, I would say there are really only 2 types I think you should consider for those armor divs of yours, at least in the early years: engineers and recon. Later, when you are preparing to turn your war machine against the Soviets, you would want to edit the template to add logistics and possibly field hospitals as well, but neither is much use until you get them to at least level 2. Remember that most of those support companies lower the division's org, and right now without the higher land doctrines, your org is starting pretty low already.

So, what does each of the companies do? Like, where would I use them? I notice you didn't mention the signal company. I would've thought that would be good, because it's like, literally giving them radios, or is it? And what about Infantry support? Same thing? Would I use an artillery company and also artillery combat brigades? Same with AT? Also, with divisions, who should I make high reinforcement and not? Like, default MOT is high priority, is that fine?

AND ALSO, lol, is there a limit on CAS in a region. Like, I have 8 CAS missions (4 TAC, 4 Stukas) all bombing. Was only like, 1 doing anything?
 
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Pro_Consul

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So, what does each of the companies do? Like, where would I use them?

This is from memory, so forgive if I leave one out.

Engineers - increase your max entrenchment level, increase movement speed in some terrains, lower amphib and fort attack penalties. Any combat division could benefit from this. It is a must for marines, mobile units, static defenders (like at ports).

MP - increase suppression of partisans. Only add to the units you design specifically for anti-partisan duty, should probably be mostly small cav divs plus some undersized INF divs placed statically to keep partisans from grabbing key spots like urban VP provs.

Recon - increases your "recon" rating. As near as I can tell this has one purpose only. Each time during battle when a tactic change is possible, this rating is added to your general's skill level in trying to score a more appropriate tactic to counter whatever the enemy is doing. I recommend it for non-run-of-the-mill combat units that have multiple tactics available, which to me means mobile troops and specialized divisions.

Maintenance - increases the "reliability" of the unit, meaning less chance that a tank or whatever will break down and need replacement. to my thinking this is only worth the loss of org it imposes on the unit if you're playing a nation that cannot afford to replace anything if it can avoid it, i.e. a minor, and probably not even then. It may also be useful if you spend a LOT of army experience making a highly modified variant of a tank model where the mods you added lowered its base reliability from the default of 80 to like below 60 or something.

Logistics - lowers the supply consumption. This is HUGE for countries facing logistical challenges. This means Germany (trying to advance deep into the USSR), Japan, USA, UK, and Italy (because of their reliance on supply through limited port capacity) most of all among the majors. The first level only reduces by 10%, so not worth worrying over. But each higher level adds another 10% reductions, so by the time the second level is researched, Germany should have these on all high-draw units, e.g. armor or mot divisions, and when practical, cerntainly by the time of Barbarossa, they should have them on ALL combat divisions.

Hospitals - increases trickleback and lowers experience loss when units take manpower losses in combat. If you aren't familiar with it, trickleback takes the number of soldiers who died in a particular fight, calculates a percentage of that number, and then raises them from the dead returning them to the nation's manpower pool. So a level 1 hospital which has +10% trickleback would basically cut your manpower expenditure for combat losses by 10%. It also cuts the amount of experience the unit loses for receiving replacements by 10%. For units that fight a lot, this can be major. When you upgrade it to level three, the rates go up to 30%, making it HUGE. This is a good value at high levels for nations with manpower limitations hampering them, e.g. Germany, France, Japan, Italy....heck everybody but the USSR and China.

Signals - increases your unit's "intiative" rating. This basically reduces the amount of time the unit needs to spend in planning in order to avoid the penalty for early execution. Useless unless you rely heavily on the "plan, wait, press execute button" routine. If you like that scripted battle plan feature, this becomes valuable once you have it researched up to level 3, but the gain from the base unit and the first upgrade aren't worth writing home about.

And what about Infantry support? Same thing?

For your situation I would want engineers and support arty on all my INF divs, until Barbarossa when I would add logistics and possibly hospitals.

Would I use an artillery company and also artillery combat brigades?

No.

Same with AT?

No. In fact, when playing a strategy that involves any respectable number of armor divisions, there is no really use ever building AT brigades at all. If you face an armor heavy opponent, by which I mean one with more armor than your own armor can keep under control, just add support AT to your soft divs. Now AT brigades could be valuable to a country too research poor or just plain poor to afford to build armor divs at all.

Also, with divisions, who should I make high reinforcement and not? Like, default MOT is high priority, is that fine?

Things that you make in very large numbers, i.e. infantry divs, should always be at the standard rate. Critical use units like armor, mech, marines, paras, etc should be high. Cheap, low mission priority units like your whack-a-mole partisan hunting cav units should be low.

AND ALSO, lol, is there a limit on CAS in a region. Like, I have 8 CAS missions (4 TAC, 4 Stukas) all bombing. Was only like, 1 doing anything?

No real limit, no, except the availability of space at the airbase and the number of planes you have to fill out wings. But remember, air superiority is more important, so first make sure you have enough fighters to win air superiority over the battlefield, then use whatever space you have left at the airbases to add support craft.
 
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Pro_Consul

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Another note regarding support companies. This may have become clear by implication from I already wrote above, but probably not. Specialized support companies, only have at most 2 physical components to them. I am NOT counting support guns here, i.e. arty, AA, or AT, just the special purpose ones. The bottom three on the tech tree require support equipment and motorized equipment. The others only require support equipment. So as long as you have motorized and support equipment stockpiled to moderate degree, you can edit the template of a division type to add or replace a support company whenever you want and the change will be completed in just a couple of days. It will not affect the experience level of the units in any way and requires no retraining or any such nonsense. It just requires the equipment, which can be had quickly from the stockpile if you have enough on hand (and companies don't take much to begin with).
 

Wraith11B

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Thanks for that, @Pro_Consul, it was very helpful. I would assume you would also agree with things like making Marine, Airborne and Mountain divisions use elite manpower and divisions slated for garrison and rear echelon divisions low manpower?
 

Pro_Consul

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Yep, Wraith, that is exactly what I do myself. Well, one exception might be mountaineers. If I am using them in numbers, and as Germany I probably would, then I would probably leave them with the regular INF divs at normal priority.