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Sam L

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Currently:

Me (Empress)
Daughter (Heiress to the Throne)
Sister (Vasal Queen)
Niece 1
Niece 2

What about you?

Also, for my chracter, I only seem to have the ambition to "Have a Son". WTF, sexist?
 
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Robert II

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None agnatic only. Woman and daughters live in the cupboard only let out for baby making and their marriages to foreign princes and kings respectively.
 
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The most I had was my character (duchess) and her two daughters. This immediately changed once the seduction-born bastard son appeared.

Also, you can only have ambition to have a daughter/son if you don't already have such a child. If you have a son already, ambition will disappear forever immediately. Same goes for daughter, as in your case, since you already have a daughter.
 
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The reason you only have "have a son" as an ambition is because you already have a daughter (or more than one) and because you don't meet the requirements for the rest of the ambitions. If you already have a certain amount of wealth then you can't take the ambition to "amass wealth". If you're already close to 500 piety or 1000 prestige (or above those numbers) then you can't take the ambition to become a paragon of virtue or the other one.

Nothing sexist about it.
 
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This is why I like Elective Monarchy so much. It's almost trivial to maintain a line of warrior Queens.
Thats why I like mods so much, I don't like the sexist allocations of jobs that CK2 often has, there's no reason a girl wouldn't be able to do anything in the game.
 
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Thats why I like mods so much, I don't like the sexist allocations of jobs that CK2 often has, there's no reason a girl wouldn't be able to do anything in the game.
I shudder to think about what this game would look like if people like you made it
 
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Isn't the reasoning for their limitation due to the supposedly historic cultural sexism of the day?

There's actually a really good reason. History.

I shudder to think about what this game would look like if people like you made it

You would be surprised, the historic sexism wasn't actually as prevalent as most people would suggest, women had a lot of administrative roles, while it wasn't common they did a huge amount officially through state control they had power over guilds, home/asset management, while it was fairly unusual due to women being tied more to the home and family it wasn't unheard of that powerful women controlled nations or powerful diplomatic posts, there are even occasions during the period where they served on war councils and in the front lines. They just received less attention through the historical recording.
 
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You would be surprised, the historic sexism wasn't actually as prevalent as most people would suggest, women had a lot of administrative roles, while it wasn't common they did a huge amount officially through state control they had power over guilds, home/asset management, while it was fairly unusual due to women being tied more to the home and family it wasn't unheard of that powerful women controlled nations or powerful diplomatic posts, there are even occasions during the period where they served on war councils and in the front lines. They just received less attention through the historical recording.
no
also 1. women did not control guilds as they did not have "middle class" jobs, 2. home management is not equivalent to being part of a reigning nobleman's council, 3. controlling a country =/= administration being run by women, and 4. monarchs serving on the front lines does not mean they would allow random women, even if talented, to control armed forces

The reason why is that 1. it was best for all of the nobility that people kept to their areas and 2. posts in things like councils were considered, often, to be prestige posts which afforded status. there is no way that the man-controlled societies of this period would have allowed such important jobs to be controlled by people outside their circles, especially as women were quite secluded in this time period.

This agenda which states that women must be portrayed equally and which takes 5 or 6 examples and extrapolates them to be the norm is ridiculous.
 
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no
also 1. women did not control guilds as they did not have "middle class" jobs, 2. home management is not equivalent to being part of a reigning nobleman's council, 3. controlling a country =/= administration being run by women, and 4. monarchs serving on the front lines does not mean they would allow random women, even if talented, to control armed forces

The reason why is that 1. it was best for all of the nobility that people kept to their areas and 2. posts in things like councils were considered, often, to be prestige posts which afforded status. there is no way that the man-controlled societies of this period would have allowed such important jobs to be controlled by people outside their circles, especially as women were quite secluded in this time period.

This agenda which states that women must be portrayed equally and which takes 5 or 6 examples and extrapolates them to be the norm is ridiculous.

There were often women in charge of guilds, some of which were wholly dominated by women, the goldsmiths guild of London was for the most part of its medieval history run by women, their needlework and expertise in gold threading and embroidery was something which was envied throughout European trade. Gynocratic societies go back a lot further than medieval history, there were fairly frequent times where policy has been conducted by women, you surely must have heard of enough queen regents? Queen regents tended to appoint more women to positions of power than is reflected in historical documents.

Furthermore, trades like bookkeeping, weaving and healing were also fairly dominated by women, while their professions weren't quite as varied as men and there were some restrictions the state of things was rarely as bad as how modern history projects it. It wasn't just home management they often had control over entire estates, sometimes even royal estates, these highly regarded positions gave them entry to councils. The misconception is more to do with the fact women tended not to receive as much education as men so there was a significantly smaller pool to choose from when it comes to things like classical education. Sure expectations were slightly different but the noble classes weren't stupid enough to pass on the skills of a talented person just because of gender.

Women were not secluded, there are plenty of tales of women often enjoying life with less limitations than men, there are a lot of stories behind history where women have been more sexually aware and taken the more active role in sexuality and banqueting, where as men were more bound by restrictions of chaste and temperance. It certainly wasn't equal but there was none of this flat out gender based denial, the history is just more hidden partly due to the church influence, although the impact of women on history did vary quite strongly from country to country.
 
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you have no idea what you're talking about
Figured I would get a response like that. What do you think happened, over half the population was just shut in a cupboard and ignored in all matters just because? Sure there's not a huge amount of documentation but its a massively growing field to uncover the truths behind female history, trouble is most people still seem to just deny it as a thing instead of actually looking at it with an open mind, I guess ignorance is just easier :)
 
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Nobody is saying that women were kept in a cupboard as a whole. However a female court chaplain would be more than mildly ridiculous with religions with a strong male dominance.

Things were not universal, some cultures/regions/religions had a view of women that made them more equals to men than others. Hell, some social classes/estates had more equality within a given society. It would be nice if more cultures and religions had more gender equal opportunities as they historically had. Even nicer would be to allow Absolute Cognatic, and the Enatic succession laws after a few generations of great Queens through a series of events that open up more positions for women. What I would like most is if my warrior queen's kinswomen could be generals with her.
 
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Figured I would get a response like that. What do you think happened, over half the population was just shut in a cupboard and ignored in all matters just because? Sure there's not a huge amount of documentation but its a massively growing field to uncover the truths behind female history, trouble is most people still seem to just deny it as a thing instead of actually looking at it with an open mind, I guess ignorance is just easier :)
Ah, yes, "uncover" "truths".

When reading an historical account about a woman in a position of power in that area in that period, if the historian addresses the matter in the vibe of "And look! She did all that as woman! How weird is that!?!", it can be assumed that such a situation was rare. If it weren't, historians wouldn't bother about giving such attention to what would be a common occurrence.
Most of objections about medieval women having regularly positions of power provide as example bookkeeping or estate management, but seem to ignore that is pretty much a glorfied version of a housewife. Obviously a noblewoman has more power and influence than a farmer, she has servants to do any menial work and can command a certain degree of influence that thousands of her male subjects cannot dream of, but that is a consequence of her social status. She is still limited in her opportunities compared to her male peers.
 
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Ah, yes, "uncover" "truths".

When reading an historical account about a woman in a position of power in that area in that period, if the historian addresses the matter in the vibe of "And look! She did all that as woman! How weird is that!?!", it can be assumed that such a situation was rare. If it weren't, historians wouldn't bother about giving such attention to what would be a common occurrence.
Most of objections about medieval women having regularly positions of power provide as example bookkeeping or estate management, but seem to ignore that is pretty much a glorfied version of a housewife. Obviously a noblewoman has more power and influence than a farmer, she has servants to do any menial work and can command a certain degree of influence that thousands of her male subjects cannot dream of, but that is a consequence of her social status. She is still limited in her opportunities compared to her male peers.

Was the historical account written by someone attached to the church? most of the demeaning of female history is in some way influenced by this kind of historical account. I'm not suggesting that courts were never male dominant areas, what I am saying is it was never as uncommon for a woman to be doing things in positions of power and as I said in my last post, the problem wasn't so much their prohibition from circles of power as much as their lack of the same level of types of education that was more available to men. This is easily answered through economic arguments where men were often the main income source of a family, and so their education was more broad and outreaching than the general specialization of women to more estate based tasks. Saying women were just glorified housewives is a vast misunderstanding of the situation, it was generally accepted that women handled internal and men handled external issues within life but it wasn't a concrete rule. Often the power and rank of the female role was more prestigious than that of the male, the problem with it comes where most of history becomes the flow of what happens through externalities where it becomes more geared towards male gender roles, although not completely but because of this women become more dismissed as unimportant or excluded through the trending of history.
 
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Silfae

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Often the power and rank of the female role was more prestigious than that of the male
So much so that Queens who wanted to be taken seriously wanted to be addressed as "Kings".
 
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