Most legitimate Byzantine family

[Lord Finnish]

Most are, yes.
I do recommend reading the book, it does give a lot of insight to Byzantine mentality and the douxes in general. I like playing my character in the way he would have acted in real life.

 

[Lorehead]

Hmmh. There are many characters but I don't remember if they all hold land and if they do, where they are. At least the following have land in 1066-1081:

Isaakios Komnenos, Alexios’s brother, was instrumental in his rise and is the Doux of Antioch at game start; a good choice if you want to start your Komnenian Restoration before Manzikert. Anna Komnene also recognizes the importance of the empresses more than most male historians have; unfortunately, few of them were landowners and therefore are difficult to play in the game. You might change history by loading up as her husband, pressing her claim and putting her on the throne instead of her brother. Princesses such as Theodora or Zoë Doukaina might be relevant if you install them as Empress; Adrianos, Zoë’s husband and Alexios’ brother, was involved in a plot against Alexios. In my current game, I had Alexios marry her and put her on the throne as his puppet, making him Emperor-consort.

 

[Lord Finnish]

Isaakios Komnenos, Alexios’s brother, was instrumental in his rise and is the Doux of Antioch at game start; a good choice if you want to start your Komnenian Restoration before Manzikert. Anna Komnene also recognizes the importance of the empresses more than most male historians have; unfortunately, few of them were landowners and therefore are difficult to play in the game. You might change history by loading up as her husband, pressing her claim and putting her on the throne instead of her brother. Princesses such as Theodora or Zoe Doukaina might be relevant if you install them as Empress; Adrianos, Zoe’s husband and Alexios’ brother, was involved in a plot against Alexios. In my current game, I had Alexios marry her and put her on the throne as his puppet, making him Emperor-consort.

True. Alexios himself also starts with land, the doux of Anatolia if I recall correctly.

Zoe and Theodora Doukaina are instrumental for any would-be emperor in 1066 start. Marrying either gives a good chance of getting claim on the throne for your heir.

 

[Beagá]

Most are, yes.
I do recommend reading the book, it does give a lot of insight to Byzantine mentality and the douxes in general. I like playing my character in the way he would have acted in real life.

Which is...?

I plot. A LOT. It even rhymed

Considering how difficult it is to get land, killing male heirs is a must... Only real problem is that more often then not the wife (and sister of the soon-to-be-dead toddlers) sucks. Also, I like playing any of the de jure dukes of Greece, to try to become king if managing to become heir of the emperor is difficult, which it often is.

 

[unmerged(88697)]

I've been playing Duke Andronikos from the 1081 start, family Doukas. Adrianopolis and Phillippopolis were important provinces to the west of Constantinople.

Not having too much luck gaining control of the empire though, something always comes up to spoil things. I don't use the ruler designer, however, just a roll of the dice to make things fun.

I dont' think it's a formulaic thing to become emperor, rather one has to make all the right moves then hope for the best.

 

[NewbieOne]

One more thought: if I wanted a legitimate BYZ emperor, I'd probably focus on getting the appropriate dynastic ties, preferably multiple, decent piety, serious military duty and some other public service, possibly Just or Diligent traits, much of the legitimacy earned through good rule, not necessarily of entire BYZ. BYZ sometimes switches to Elective and that's another good route to having a legit BYZ emperor.

Or, if you want to play a return of the true emperor kind of game, at least from a subjective perspective, you can pick the Komnenoi of Trebisond any time from 1204 to the last start in 1337. From late 1204 onward, they start at king tier. "Despot of Trebisond" is what Constantinople eventually recognised them as being. I won't get into more detail because you can get a basic introduction from wiki, better written than what I could provide here. Some of those guys start with a strong claim on BYZ, while they are not vassals of Constantinople. Just be warned that playing them may be very, very hard. Title is titular, land is in two de iure duchies tops, maybe three on some dates, and there's plenty of neighbours with holy war CB, not to mention Mongols nearby. Trebisond is darn, darn hard. (And on my to do list.)

 

[Lorehead]

Which is...?

The Alexiad. There’s a reason the bookmark is called that.

 

[Lorehead]

True. Alexios himself also starts with land, the doux of Anatolia if I recall correctly.

Paphlagonia.

 

[unmerged(217556)]

How can there be any "legitimate" descendants? Rome was a republic and became an empire through a dictator that effectively forced a military coup. The only possible "legitimate" dynasty to rule the "Roman Empire" in my opinion would be the descendants of Romulus after he founded the city himself. The right to be emperor goes to whoever has the power to claim it for himself. Be whoever you want and if you can become the emperor and maintain it, then your dynasty truly is the heir to the legacy of the Roman Empire.

Personally, I like to start as the Komnenos family at the Alexiad.

 

[Lorehead]

But to answer the original question, I would argue that a victorious Komnenos-Doukos family united by marriage would be regarded as the most legitimate ruling family, by the Greeks at the time, particularly if they could arrange to have their heirs born in the purple.

 

[Divi]

How can there be any "legitimate" descendants? Rome was a republic and became an empire through a dictator that effectively forced a military coup. The only possible "legitimate" dynasty to rule the "Roman Empire" in my opinion would be the descendants of Romulus after he founded the city himself. The right to be emperor goes to whoever has the power to claim it for himself. Be whoever you want and if you can become the emperor and maintain it, then your dynasty truly is the heir to the legacy of the Roman Empire.

Personally, I like to start as the Komnenos family at the Alexiad.

By that argument, there's a bunch of italian (and a few occitan) families who do have credible roots in old senatorial families; only one of these is playable at game start, though, the Orsini, who are papal vassals as counts of Orvieto or Orbetello (can't remember which).

 

[magritte2]

Will not lie I as very disspointed with LoR, I wanted deep political intrigue for the Imperial throne, magic Rome button.

Yes, I was really hoping they would revamp the game mechanics dramatically for the empire to reflect that it wasn't really a feudal state. Being a governor or a Doux wasn't a strictly hereditary position, although the Emperor might prefer to appoint a member of the same family as the predecessor, in order to maintain the balance of power between factions. I was hoping that the factions would represent alliances of major families that usually would not be aiming to actually go to war with the Emperor but to influence him and gain access to important positions. They could have represented them in a similar fashion to the way they've handled republics with the heads of the major families having estates, or may be just left the barony titles as fully hereditary.

 

[Nostalgium]

Always been very fond of the Palaiologos, if for no other reason than your starting position. You're the Doux of Epiros, with no relatives and an amazing family crest.

 

[Divi]

Yes, I was really hoping they would revamp the game mechanics dramatically for the empire to reflect that it wasn't really a feudal state. Being a governor or a Doux wasn't a strictly hereditary position, although the Emperor might prefer to appoint a member of the same family as the predecessor, in order to maintain the balance of power between factions. I was hoping that the factions would represent alliances of major families that usually would not be aiming to actually go to war with the Emperor but to influence him and gain access to important positions. They could have represented them in a similar fashion to the way they've handled republics with the heads of the major families having estates, or may be just left the barony titles as fully hereditary.

I'm hoping the republic overhaul allows to finally do what Legacy of Rome forgot to do.

 

[macphineas]

It really is a shame that you can't play as ambitious general working his way through the imperial bureaucracy, instead of as a feudal lord. Although it should be noted that the Komnemnoi introduced a fair bit of feudalism into the empire by granting large tracts of lands to doux and other nobles, especially members of their own family. This practice was continued under the Paleologoi as well.

 

[berke]

Under the Palaeologoi, it can be argued that the pronoia system had essentially become heritable and feudal.

 

[SRM]

The Laskaris, because Skantarios.

 

[ASPGolan]

Short answer: Komnenos
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Considering game standings, for early starts (pre 1200s), any of their members make a lot of sense, gives interesting gameplay.
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Legitimacy. Interesting topic, in the entire Europe the ruling class is formed mostly out of the new arriving barbarians, who are now "civilised". Former populations with decent from Roman Empire period have a majority, but only a weak word to say in the politics.

Thus, the descendants of Constantin make little sense to me.

In the BE we have a very interesting phenomena, that will occur in the west as well. The conquered, the greek, slowly and subvertingly, they changed the aristocracy left behind by the romans with their own. And the other nations in the BE aren't going to be passive, they do the same, but in order to have legitimacy, they "become greek". I.e. in the game look at the Kometoupoulos and other "greek" families (go to family tree and check the ancestors). They have completely different backgrounds than their grandchildren. Historically this is a very common thing everywhere in Europe, even if it started a lot earlier in the BE (at least 500 years earlier). The greeks should have their own legacy (the romans didn't destroy the old greeks and neither did they ever assimilated them) in both the former greek/macedonian and in former seleucid cities.

So IMO none have legitimate descent - from a medieval perspective. However, from a nationalistic point of view, they have more claim (the greeks in Greece, armenians in Armenia and so on).
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From history after the CK2 era in the orthodox regions, I would say that the Komnenos have been viewed as the true line of emperors. The first tsar claimed legitimacy by marrying a Komnenos (hope I'm not mistaken and remember correctly). And nobles in regions with little aristocratic tradition (the vlachs, the bulgarians) have always used alliances/unions with the main or cadet branches of the Komnenos - this family more than any other - in order to justify their claims. Their legacy has echoed until the 1600-1700s (probably because of Alexios too). Because of this echo, I assume that they had or claimed to have some degree of descent into major families of the roman era too.

There are too little believable sources to get a good idea about this.

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There you have it: Komnenos.

 

[Lord Finnish]

Starting in 1066, Komnenoi are probably the least legitimate family with a claim to power. They produced one emperor, yes, but it was a military coup which was very quickly toppled when he voluntarily gave the throne in favor of Konstantinos Doukas. Alexios I also came to power through a coup which he had been preparing for a long time. What finally triggered it was palace intrigue as some servants of emperor Nikephoros began plotting their demise. 1081 and onward they are the most legitimate though, since all emperors after Alexios were related to him by blood.

 

[Hystarea]

I wish when I played as any noble in the ERE I would survive to the 1100, but every time I try the ERE always gets conquered by the Fatimid. You have a lucky game you do.