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Spartanlemur

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So I'm thinking of starting my second Byzantine playthrough and am deciding which dynasty to play as.

Which dynasty has the most credible link to Constantine the great? Or if not him, another ancient Roman noble family?

I know the Macedonian dynasty which ruled for the two centuries before the start of the game were almost certainly a complete fabrication, so did the preceding dynasty leave any surviving link in 1066?

Essentially, which Byzantine family is the most prestigious (or has is linked to one with great prestige)?
 

Spartanlemur

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The Van Vlaanderens.

The von Habsburgs

Ah, right. References to the fact that essentially all European nobility is descended from the Roman Emperors! XD (I feel like an idiot XD )

Ok, ignore the first bit then, about Rome; which Byzantine family has the greatest right to the imperial throne in your opinion and why?

(Want to start a "rightful claimant" scenario)
 

Ols

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None of them. Claims are not hereditary in the Roman tradition. The son of a great Emperor could inherit, but if he didn't his great-great-great-grandchildren had no greater claim than someone totally unrelated who just happened to be an influential Greek Doux. Pick an obscure family and rise up. That said, my personal favourite has to be House Kommenos due to the Alexiad and the fact that they were pretty good at holding out on the Imperial throne and in the Empire of Trebizond.
 

Hackworthy

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That sort of heredity didn't matter and none of the old Roman families survived into the 11th century but some of the noble families like the Doukas' and the Argryroi probably have some kind of matrilineal link to the Flavioi (Constantine's house).
 

Spartanlemur

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None of them. Claims are not hereditary in the Roman tradition. The son of a great Emperor could inherit, but if he didn't his great-great-great-grandchildren had no greater claim than someone totally unrelated who just happened to be an influential Greek Doux. Pick an obscure family and rise up. That said, my personal favourite has to be House Kommenos due to the Alexiad and the fact that they were pretty good at holding out on the Imperial throne and in the Empire of Trebizond.

Ah, I see; minor nobility rise through the ranks, get granted land, and then use diplomacy and intrigue to secure the throne, hence why none of the families seem to have held territory very long. Still, there must be one family which has the best blood claim to the imperial throne from a Frankish perspective?
 

Ols

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Try the Doukas. They all have lots of claims though, most high up families intermarried a lot. All Emperors after Alexios I were descended from him, for example, despite not sharing the family name.
 

shypixel

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You could start in 1066 as a Komnenos. Isaac Komnenos had been Emperor until 1059, when he abdicated in favor of a Doukas after falling ill. This gives the Komnenos family at least some claim on the throne, especially as the move had been strongly opposed by Isaac's brother John. (Though Alexios' father declined the throne himself.. let us just ignore that little tidbit.)

It would be quite the challenge to start then and try to stave off the disaster of Manzikert and the Turkish invasion, let alone seize the throne.
 

Gunnarr

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I agree with another who said hereditary claims were not as important in the Roman Empire.

It was more of... if you could get control of the throne, in whatever way, then you are... supposed to be there. It is hard to explain.

If you have obtained the throne, that means God has blessed you to be on that throne. If you fail to keep the throne from usurpers/pretenders or whatever you wish to call them, then God does not favor you and you were meant to be dethroned. Just as it is said, nothing is done without God allowing it to happen (Just the reasons for it being allowed to happen is a mystery, as God is beyond reason)

That is basically what I have found in what I have read about this.

Some might call it a meritocracy, but it was not really that either.
It just was not as centered on the bloodline as it was in the west.
 

tuareg109

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The Pope!
You must play a devoutly religious character that speak Latin if you wish to follow in Constantine's footsteps!
 

Lord Finnish

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Dynasties weren't nearly as important in Byzantine Empire as in other parts of Europe. The Byzantines didn't care how far your family tree went, the only thing that mattered was that you were a successful and pious ruler that worked to preserve the Empire.

It wasn't until the Palaiologoi that the Empire really became an entity ruled by one particular dynasty.
 

cybrxkhan

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I would say that it wasn't dynasties per se that were important, but rather your connections. If you were connected to powerful and influential families, then your dynasty was good enough. This was why historically after Alexios I, every Emperor after him was related to him by blood or marriage - having that connection to him somehow was a source of great prestige.
 

Zenith Darksea

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It's not quite true to say that dynastic ties weren't important. If you look at all the great usurpers from the time of Iconoclasm on, they all did their best to at least marry into the ruling dynasty, even if they then went on to try to marginalise that dynasty and take it over for their own family. Romanus Lecapenus, Nicephorus Phocas, John Tzimisces, Romanus Diogenes, Alexius Comnenus, Michael Palaeologus, John Cantacuzenus... There was a sense that connections to the family of the previous emperor were important, though this didn't mean that that particular dynasty had to stay in power. There was no need for, say, the imperial family to maintain the name 'Ducas' or the name 'Lascaris'.

In practice, the person with the most military power and control of Constantinople got to be the emperor. However, to be perceived as having any legitimacy, you had to show some connection to the established ruling house, even if that connection was at times rather fanciful.
 

Talq

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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Byzantine_usurpers

This is informative in its own way.

If you want a rightful claimant scenario Komnenos is probably your best bet. In terms of tracing ancestry back, erm good luck. Leaving aside its a long time ago (noble families dying out over a period of a few hundred years is actually quite common- I think of the CK2 king or above starting dynasties only Capet makes it to the end) proximity to power does tend to breed suspicion of and attempts to usurp which tends to get males killed, and females packed off to monasteries.
 

berke

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As people have said, none of them were descended from Constantine. Legitimacy mattered but it was more a question of having been born to the imperial circles/family than it was to have belonged to any particular family.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Born_in_the_purple

For example, Michael IV (1041-42) was a relatively obscure relation of a powerful eunuch and the former emperor (who himself had been a relation of the powerful eunuch John, long story) and he married the "born-in-the-purple" Macedonian princess/empress Theodora but after gaining the imperial position attempted to depose both Theodora and her sister Zoe. Even though he was emperor, the people and the aristocracy did not tolerate his abuse of the legitimate princesses.

Likewise, John VI Kantacuzes (1347-1354) won a civil war to become emperor but made his young rival co-emperor instead of killing him because of the importance of legitimacy.

That being said, it always had to do with power and if someone could they certainly would have seized or taken power. And frequently a general would approach the imperial city and scheme with some elements of the church or the military to become emperor, easy as that.

The Macedonians are interesting in that they seized power entirely through intrigue and assassination but then engaged in a concentrated propaganda campaign to proclaim their dynasty as always having been chosen to lead God's people through the dignity of the imperial office (one example of this is a biography of Basil I that describes eagles shielding him from the harsh Mediterranean sun during his youth). And after they had seized power, they de facto and de jure became legitimate and after a few generations it was very well established. Byzantium never had a dynasty rule more than 100 years and only if we include adoptions. Longest ruling dynasty were the Palaiologans. Constantine's own dynasty only ruled until 363 , with Valentine I seizing power in 364 and beginning the Valentinian dynasty.

Byzantium wasn't a feudal state, though it did have feudal elements in the late period. So the question of dynasty , etc, or being a blood descendent of a former ruler wasn't that important. Until the late period of disintegration, the administration was highly centralized and conceptualized around an idea of a state versus an idea of a dynasty or family. I can't remember the name in question but there was a big controversy when the Western wife of one emperor tried to divide up the empire between her children a la gavelkind when the emperor died, the commentators thought she was crazy for thinking that the empire was the personal property of any one person or family. That was the case, the emperor did not own the land, he managed the land and if he did it badly, then he was a tyrant, in theory. That is why panegyrics focused on the emperors' charity or benevolence or piety or philantropia. The most legitimate dynasty was the most successful and philanthropic dynasty.
 
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Kanin_Usagi

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The gist of it is: If you're powerful and have the connections, you should fight to become Emperor. If you're Emperor and can be beaten by someone, you don't deserve to be Emperor in the first place. This is one reason why people want more intrigue and depth in a Byzantine game: It should be hard to become Emperor. It should be hard to remain Emperor. So the one who is most legitimate to the throne is whatever person wants it and has the power to take it.