Morocco Shouldn't Be Overseas for a European Country Like Portugal

[Ograv]

Culture flipping isn't really that important. It increases your income yes, but it's not linked to tech like in EU3, in fact flipping cultures uses up points better spent at ideas/tech in my opinion. And if North Africa was considered Europe in game (heh), it would boost the income and remove the need to keep a navy to conquer large parts of it as a European state.

Fine as it is in my opinion. If anything increase the overseas cost for culture flipping, and reduce it by region to make it cheaper in the Americas.

 

[Pukovnik]

I totally agree.

 

[zyphial]

Target territory has to be so many sea-zones away from a core province before being considered 'Overseas'.

Capital, not core province. Or, what, as soon as you core a colony all of your continental holdings are no longer overseas? It's easy to culture flip New York, but as soon as you core it, Massachusetts is as hard as Holstein (ignoring base tax differences)?

 

[horngeek]

As it does it by continent, I don't understand why it can't just be set so that only provinces in the Americas and Oceania get cheaper conversions.

But my Japanese Colonial Empire... *cries silently*

More seriously, whatever system you pick will have bugs, unfortunately.

 

[IZob]

The Overseas penalty should be based on distance from capital. Not on what continent the capital is on.

 

[Blastaz]

The problem is north african countries are too weak compared to europeans especially compared to iberia, Paradox seems to assign base tax in respect to gameplay and not reality.

The problem with that is that it will just make Spain more powerful when it wins...

 

[Jomini]

To me this looks a lot more like WAD. Ceuta, Tangier and Mellila should be easy to convert and culture flip, they were after all relatively small enclaves that were mostly useful for attempting to control trade. Likewise, other trading locales like Goa were not too hard to convert.

The bigger problem is that is no positive reason not to culture flip or convert these areas. There is a penalty in terms of missionary cost and spending AMP on the process, but if you have the resources, you will do it only because there is nothing better to do. Ideally, there should be a reward for keeping the culture/religion from changing. Something like religious and cultural conversion resulting in trade power shifting - Spain and Portugal should want their enclaves on the coast, but when they integrate them, trade power should start moving to neighboring, indigenous provinces.

It is set up fairly nicely right now, North Africa isn't terribly useful to the Iberians outside of trade and other locales don't suffer from the "we must be able to fight off the Europeans" scenario that means you need them to be poorer to Europe and more valuable to the locals.

 

[mudcrabmerchant]

Just think about the plausibility of it all: Why should the few dozen miles of the Strait of Gibraltar lead to the same penalties that entire oceans give? The problem of EUIII's inevitable Castillian Africa should be solved by making it harder to conquer and even harder to hold North African provinces, not by making the area less attractive. At the very least, the rich coastal cities should be an attractive target - it should simply be difficult to hold onto them, outside of the few Moroccan holdings that were held onto for centuries.

Now, it's going to be hard to draw a line between Tangier and Fez and Tripoli in game terms, but I think a good way to simulate at least the Morocco-other Maghreb divide would be to call the Ottomans in via missions and events if Castille pushes further east than Melilla. The difficulty of any kind of push inland could be represented by any combination of extra attrition, positive modifiers for Maghrebis if Christians own one of their cities, or making it harder to create claims on Maghrebi lands, and making the Christians rely on missions or events to get claims on specific cities.

 

[Korashy]

They should just have that one apply to provinces that were previously uncolonized and certain against certain native tribes in the americas, oceana.

 

[lordvagrant]

The 'Distant Overseas' modifier should be split into 2 modifiers - 'Distant' and 'Overseas', with Distance being from the Capital (possibly modified with Admin Tech). The effects the modifier currently provides can be split into 3 conditions - Distant/Overseas/Distant & Overseas. This would also mean that a sprawling land empire may have trouble with its border provinces.

 

[ejones44]

I bet devs could easily change this.

 

[justin6477]

Death & Taxes made North Africa part of Europe. It certainly seems reasonable.

No? Maybe many, many versions ago, but not currently; now it's a region/continent with the Middle East.

 

[Xyviel]

The 'Distant Overseas' modifier should be split into 2 modifiers - 'Distant' and 'Overseas', with Distance being from the Capital (possibly modified with Admin Tech). The effects the modifier currently provides can be split into 3 conditions - Distant/Overseas/Distant & Overseas. This would also mean that a sprawling land empire may have trouble with its border provinces.

I like this idea.

 

[VolitionNewlove]

Seriously, though, Portuguese/French/Castillian/Papal North Africa has been an issue since the dawn of time. We all saw this coming. It was made clear from a screenshot of the game.

In this thread and the other, I made sarcastic posts, since it really wasn't worth the effort to do anything else. Now it doesn't even feel worth it to even make sarcastic posts anymore...

 

[Solmyr2000]

if Portugal conquered Chinese provinces, would the same ease of culture-flipping apply? If it does, I don't think it should, and then the distance modifier wouldn't help. But maybe Asia isn't considered overseas...

If it does, it probably will also work backwards, which means Portugal will be easy to convert to Chinese culture... lol.

 

[Closet Skeleton]

Sup I'm a Moroccan, yes i know it sound like American, yes i agree it shouldn't be oversea, its a Mediterranean country also after all.

Well, a Mediterranean-Atlantic country, but that's still the same category as Spain and Portugal.

The whole split between southern Europe and the Maghreb is artificial and basically originates from the time when paradoxically the area had been annexed by European countries.

 

[Hive]

Way back in EU2, I made North Africa a part of Europe in my mod. The same thing might be appropriate here.

Sure, it's geographically incorrect - but back in those days, North Africa had a lot more in common with Europe than the rest of Africa.

 

[XT6Wagon]

Have you tried taking the spanish provinces to get both sides of the landbridge?

 

[Danfish77]

I think the Straits of Gibraltar should be linked with a crossing. Same for the English Channel. That way even if an enemy can't be bothered to build up a naval force to send an invasion over, in order to defend you'll still need a strong navy.

 

[snakebite528]

not arsed, Africa's only purpose is to be conquered by Europeans anyway.