Morocco Shouldn't Be Overseas for a European Country Like Portugal

[Merrivale]

The other thread discussing this has stopped discussing it and focused instead on its participants, so with apologies to the moderators I'm starting a new one.

In the demo, Morocco is treated as overseas for Portugal, which allows it to take a severe reduction in culture flipping conquered provinces. Is it WAD that North Africa would be this way for Europe? And would the situation be the same for a European player conquering provinces in China or India?

As I understand it, the overseas mechanic is all about allowing for a difference in colonial affairs versus non-colonial affairs but that doesn't seem to apply here.

 

[unmerged(584823)]

Totally agree with you.

 

[Sakura_F]

It's because the "overseas" mechanic works based on continent, not on actual raw distance. So playing as Spain and conquering one province in Morocco is an overseas conquest, while conquering Trebizond or even Constantinople isn't.

 

[Vence]

Sup I'm a Moroccan, yes i know it sound like American, yes i agree it shouldn't be oversea, its a Mediterranean country also after all.

 

[Riotkiller]

As it does it by continent, I don't understand why it can't just be set so that only provinces in the Americas and Oceania get cheaper conversions.

 

[LogicCure]

The other thread discussing this has stopped discussing it and focused instead on its participants, so with apologies to the moderators I'm starting a new one.

In the demo, Morocco is treated as overseas for Portugal, which allows it to take a severe reduction in culture flipping conquered provinces. Is it WAD that North Africa would be this way for Europe? And would the situation be the same for a European player conquering provinces in China or India?

As I understand it, the overseas mechanic is all about allowing for a difference in colonial affairs versus non-colonial affairs but that doesn't seem to apply here.

I suppose something like a distance modifier would be appropriate and hopefully not to hard to implement. Target territory has to be so many sea-zones away from a core province before being considered 'Overseas'. So North Africa would be harder to colonize for Europeans but everywhere else would be as normal.

 

[Merrivale]

I suppose something like a distance modifier would be appropriate and hopefully not to hard to implement. Target territory has to be so many sea-zones away from a core province before being considered 'Overseas'. So North Africa would be harder to colonize for Europeans but everywhere else would be as normal.

Well, the thing is, and I don't know the answer to this, if Portugal conquered Chinese provinces, would the same ease of culture-flipping apply? If it does, I don't think it should, and then the distance modifier wouldn't help. But maybe Asia isn't considered overseas...

 

[Andy_Dandy]

Seems like some people don't understand that North Africa are not meant to be too tempting targets for Portugal and Castile.

 

[Saranis]

As it does it by continent, I don't understand why it can't just be set so that only provinces in the Americas and Oceania get cheaper conversions.

Because theres a whole lot more to Africa than what borders the Mediterranean. A lot of which is ripe for the taking.

 

[DarkShb]

Actually it is historically correct to talk about Morrocco as oversea. The portuguese started their attempt to world conquest with the taking of Ceuta.

 

[smellymummy]

but wasnt tangier and ceuta also overseas for portugal in eu3? or was it just ceuta? spain had the same issue on some north african provinces, where some would be overseas others not.

though making it less tempting for nations to take over it all is a good thing - spanish north africa. i can live with crappy income from tangier/ceuta as portugal. at least there's a center of trade bonus in tangiers

 

[Belissarius]

As it does it by continent, I don't understand why it can't just be set so that only provinces in the Americas and Oceania get cheaper conversions.

I'm not sure I fully agree with taking Africa out of the equation totally. Rather view North Africa as part of Europe.

 

[LogicCure]

Well, the thing is, and I don't know the answer to this, if Portugal conquered Chinese provinces, would the same ease of culture-flipping apply? If it does, I don't think it should, and then the distance modifier wouldn't help. But maybe Asia isn't considered overseas...

Now, I'm not an exactly well informed but the conversion is modified by the tax level of the target province. I don't remember well but I would think those Chinese/Asian provinces would have a higher tax level and thus already be inherently harder to convert. Contrast that with Saharan Africa/Morocco which has lower tax levels and thus easier to convert. So the distance modifier would just kind of be a band-aid to fix that weird North African problem that may not be present in the other more affluent/densely populated 'overseas' areas.

Edit:

I'm not sure I fully agree with taking Africa out of the equation totally. Rather view North Africa as part of Europe.

Or this. This sounds easier.

 

[mudcrabmerchant]

North Africa really shouldn't be considered part of Africa. It's quite easy to mod it into the confines of Europe, thankfully.

 

[VolitionNewlove]

But... But... North Africa is supposed to be conquered in most games due to some contrived explanation which derails the thread into minor bickering! We need to make the tax value in each province 0, as that will mean that Portugal, Castille, and France will ignore it, rather than use it as a free location to spawn units!

(Sarcasm again.)

 

[SomethingSharp]

Seems like some people don't understand that North Africa are not meant to be too tempting targets for Portugal and Castile.

Actually, the problem is exactly the opposite. It's exactly because North Africa is overseas that it's a tempting target, because of the different conversion mechanics since EU3. Now, overseas provinces are much much quicker to convert (culturally and religiously) so Iberia has a much easier time with it.

 

[Zarine]

North Africa really shouldn't be considered part of Africa. It's quite easy to mod it into the confines of Europe, thankfully.

North Africa shouldn't be tempting for Europe.
The less malus there is, the higher the chance to have Europe smashing them and taking the land as it was in EU3 where everyone was pissed of the situation.
Now it seems that everyone is thinking the other way around.

 

[Merrivale]

North Africa shouldn't be tempting for Europe.
The less malus there is, the higher the chance to have Europe smashing them and taking the land as it was in EU3 where everyone was pissed of the situation.
Now it seems that everyone is thinking the other way around.

The problem is the opposite, as it stands now it is better for European countries to have North Africa considered overseas because it's much easier to culture convert them. What I, and others, are saying, is that it should be harder for Europeans to culture flip North African provinces. Now, the problem here is that overseas provinces have a bunch of other negatives, so I suppose I really should have amended my thread title: for the purposes of cultural conversion, Morocco shouldn't be overseas for Portugal. But I don't think I can do that so we're stuck with it.

The core of the problem really is that the overseas mechanic shouldn't be used for this purpose, in my opinion.

 

[lowdias]

The problem is north african countries are too weak compared to europeans especially compared to iberia, Paradox seems to assign base tax in respect to gameplay and not reality.

 

[MrQwerty]

Death & Taxes made North Africa part of Europe. It certainly seems reasonable.