Morocco needs a total redraw!

[Kretoxian]

Right now, with the DH map Morocco is not very well implemented as it misses three very important (historically speaking) spanish enclaves like sidi ifni, Ceuta and Melilla, that's why i propose the next changes on the map:



I admit that maybe the Chafarinas islands and Alborán could be skipped, but i think that Ceuta Melilla, Sidi Ifni and Tanger not, specially if we consider that there was a war in sidi ifni within game's timeframe, the sidi ifni war, 1957-1958:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ifni_War

and that Morocco during the 30s, 40s (with exception of vichy france and all that) and partially in the 50s looked like this:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/23/Morocco_Protectorate.svg

i think that this is a change that should be made for the next version and it would also help for another war that happened during the game's timeframe, the Rif war:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rif_War

What do you think?

 

[Klausewitz]

I think it is superfluous.
Marocco is hardly a focus of the game, even when playing France or Spain.

 

[Kretoxian]

I think it is superfluous.
Marocco is hardly a focus of the game, even when playing France or Spain.

Now think, is it superfluous because it's provinces are badly designed or because nothing happened there in mod's timespan? Because it's more than obvious that there were at least three wars during game's timespan (Rif war, WW2 and Sidi Ifni war) and one of these at least could be simulated with these proposed provinces (Rif republics declares independence, tries to attack Franco Spanish cities of Ceuta, Melilla and Tanger and then the spanish attack conquering the northern strip of Morocco).

And also if Sidi ifni is not included, then by the same reason i can't see why there's goa in the game, i hardly focus on India and much less in their colonies, or also i don't see why there's a province for St. Pierre et Miquelon or, why there's a prov for Maldives islands and not other one for Bahrein and i could go on...

 

[Kretoxian]

Ok, here's another part of the map, this time is about the changes that i think should be made to European map. I've purposely excluded Vatican and San Marino, but i think i'll include them later:



Let me explain you the changes:

Split Porto in Porto and Bragança: This is to avoid someone invading Portugal to take their capital in few days. The province of Coimbra should also be splitted.
Split province of Mont-de-marsan in two, Bayonne and Mont-de-marsan. To represent the Basque French claims.
Split and redraw the province of Perpignan, in Perpignan (northern Catalonia) Ariége And make room in province of Lerida to place Andorra (which is not as small as you think)
Make Menorca a province, imagine that a fascist UK wants to recover it.
Make Pantelleria a province, it was an Italian air base IRL
Split the province of Thessaloniki in two, in order to represent the Bulgaro-German occupation zones as seen here: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a0/Triple_Occupation_of_Greece.png
Make room for Liechtenstein!!! (it's not as small as you think)
Make Channel Islands a province, they were the only occupied British european territory after all.
Make a province for isle of Man.
Make a province for Heligoland: It could be a nice base for a British raid in order to set up a base to commit air raids against Germany.
Turn Bornholm into a province. It was a Danish navy base after WW2 and it was in vanilla Hoi2 map.

 

[Limith]

I don't support this in Vanilla....or any mod for that matter. DH's provinces are fine. Perhaps for a battlescenario. Small provinces are annoying to click on as it is and there are already enough worthless provinces in the game.

 

[Kretoxian]

Considering that the game's timespan goes from 1914 to 1963, many conflicts and wars are left outside due to the map.

Small and annoying to click? maybe, but they're necessary, and most of the changes proposed by me are not precissely small provinces.

 

[Klausewitz]

Believe it or not, but most wars after 1945 won't fire as intended anyway so there is little worth to changing the map (and changing events and and and) just to be able to do a brush war somewhere.

Oh, Gao is important it is a Portugal (possibly axis) possesion in allied India.

 

[Kretoxian]

Believe it or not, but most wars after 1945 won't fire as intended anyway so there is little worth to changing the map (and changing events and and and) just to be able to do a brush war somewhere.

Oh, Gao is important it is a Portugal (possibly axis) possesion in allied India.

Excuse me, but i thougth that this game was based in history, not in the experience of most of the players. Then why have america? in most of my games there's seldomly any action there.

Well Pondicherry was also a French colony in India which declared himself in favour of Free France, but if he had declared in favour of the axis, or the Vichy regime had granted it to the then, neutral Japanese, then the Japanese could get a valuable hold in India. Is it in the game? Nope.

 

[Leobama Bama]

Hello, the changes I want to be realized

The war between Paraguay and Bolivia was in the game year
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaco_War

And a new map for Mexico It looks strange to me but this can help http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/85/Revolución_mexicana_1914.svg and http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/2c/Revolución_mexicana_1915.svg sorry for because this is in spanish i can translate it and add an event for the "Pancho Villa Expedition"http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pancho_Villa_Expedition it and also sorry for my bad english.

 

[hansnery]

Excuse me, but i thougth that this game was based in history, not in the experience of most of the players. Then why have america? in most of my games there's seldomly any action there.

Well Pondicherry was also a French colony in India which declared himself in favour of Free France, but if he had declared in favour of the axis, or the Vichy regime had granted it to the then, neutral Japanese, then the Japanese could get a valuable hold in India. Is it in the game? Nope.

I don't think this is an valid argument, comparing America to some worthless(in gameplay) provinces. You can play as axis and try to invade America, that's important.

 

[Limith]

There's some issues with small areas I do agree. They become worthless provinces but are somewhat useful in game strategically.

 

[Leobama Bama]

Also Menorca was the only of the Balearic Islands it was not occupied by National Spain http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Menorca

 

[Leobama Bama]

Also the Isles of Scilly could be implemented (a possible german bridgehead to Sealion U.K) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isles_of_Scilly

 

[Limith]

You might consider playing Iron Cross' map instead. I like DH's map province size personally.

 

[Baltasar]

I don't think this is an valid argument, comparing America to some worthless(in gameplay) provinces. You can play as axis and try to invade America, that's important.

That may be the opinion of the US people, not neccessarily the opinion of everybody else ;-)

 

[ewphoenix123]

Ok hard to give one answer as multiple suggestions are mixed in here.

A) There will be no (new) miniprovince in any offical DH map, neither colonial enclaves nor islands of no major importance.
B) Primarily South America and probably Africa will get some love in the future, but I don't know when. My original plan was for 1.3 but I have atm to much other stuff I want to work on first.

 

[Kung Zog]

Ok hard to give one answer as multiple suggestions are mixed in here.

A) There will be no (new) miniprovince in any offical DH map, neither colonial enclaves nor islands of no major importance.
B) Primarily South America and probably Africa will get some love in the future, but I don't know when. My original plan was for 1.3 but I have atm to much other stuff I want to work on first.

Seems like a good decision. Personally I would love an increase of provinces in Xinjiang, Mongolia, Manchuria and eastern, southern Siberia. A density similar to the area around the Aral sea would suit the area well.

 

[Emmanuel_M]

Now think, is it superfluous because it's provinces are badly designed or because nothing happened there in mod's timespan? Because it's more than obvious that there were at least three wars during game's timespan (Rif war, WW2 and Sidi Ifni war) and one of these at least could be simulated with these proposed provinces (Rif republics declares independence, tries to attack Franco Spanish cities of Ceuta, Melilla and Tanger and then the spanish attack conquering the northern strip of Morocco).

Right now such provinces would be worthless and tedious to manage IMHO. Especially for the spanish civil war.

Now if you could design an interesting scenario of Hassan II seizing power or the Rif war, that would make such provinces usefull and obviously worth including.

And also if Sidi ifni is not included, then by the same reason i can't see why there's goa in the game, i hardly focus on India and much less in their colonies, or also i don't see why there's a province for St. Pierre et Miquelon or, why there's a prov for Maldives islands and not other one for Bahrein and i could go on...

Individual examples can be debated, but Panzers going on an indian trek isn't an exotic game occurrence. As well as worker's vanguard trying to convince Indians of capitlism's evilness with 7.62mm propaganda tools.

To be honest my opinion on DH is that I love the extra provinces in northern France, Benelux, Poland and current Ukraine (aka where major fights happen) while I absolutely hate them everywhere else.

Excuse me, but i thougth that this game was based in history, not in the experience of most of the players. Then why have america? in most of my games there's seldomly any action there.

Please consider improving while playing axis or soviet union. You'll soon be able and willing to bring action there.

But I agree with you on the fact that there are too many american provinces. If the good bad player controlled guys (choose preferered qualification) bring the fun there, the area usually doesnt need that many provinces to simulate plausible action there. 50 provinces for 50 states should be far sufficient, anything over it is a tedious click tax.

Well Pondicherry was also a French colony in India which declared himself in favour of Free France, but if he had declared in favour of the axis, or the Vichy regime had granted it to the then, neutral Japanese, then the Japanese could get a valuable hold in India. Is it in the game? Nope.

Colony islands with no notable military facilities, which means no warport or war airport, need NOT to be in the game. Since building a top tier naval base there didnt seem as a sensible option at the time, making these provinces valuable forward bases would be ahistorical and gamey. And since they need to be not valuable, then there is no reson to add them except as a click tax.

 

[Kretoxian]

Right now such provinces would be worthless and tedious to manage IMHO. Especially for the spanish civil war.

Now if you could design an interesting scenario of Hassan II seizing power or the Rif war, that would make such provinces usefull and obviously worth including.



Individual examples can be debated, but Panzers going on an indian trek isn't an exotic game occurrence. As well as worker's vanguard trying to convince Indians of capitlism's evilness with 7.62mm propaganda tools.

To be honest my opinion on DH is that I love the extra provinces in northern France, Benelux, Poland and current Ukraine (aka where major fights happen) while I absolutely hate them everywhere else.



Please consider improving while playing axis or soviet union. You'll soon be able and willing to bring action there.

But I agree with you on the fact that there are too many american provinces. If the good bad player controlled guys (choose preferered qualification) bring the fun there, the area usually doesnt need that many provinces to simulate plausible action there. 50 provinces for 50 states should be far sufficient, anything over it is a tedious click tax.



Colony islands with no notable military facilities, which means no warport or war airport, need NOT to be in the game. Since building a top tier naval base there didnt seem as a sensible option at the time, making these provinces valuable forward bases would be ahistorical and gamey. And since they need to be not valuable, then there is no reson to add them except as a click tax.

Those provinces would be handled just like Spanish Guinea, Spanish Sahara and the land strip of Spanish Morocco, so that's not a problem.

When i said that thing about america, i was being ironic, it's obvious that you didn't got my point at all!

If, acording to you, only those islands holding a military instalation shoudl be in there, i think you would agree that Diego Garcia island should be back, shouldn't it? I mean, it was (and it still is) a very important aeronaval base in the indian ocean!

I still remember when in the old HOI2 forum the people dreamt with a map full of provinces, that was one of the reasons for HOI3 10000 land provs...

 

[Emmanuel_M]

When i said that thing about america, i was being ironic, it's obvious that you didn't got my point at all!

I think I got it, but I am not ironic at all. I just consider the current version of America has too many provinces, especially int the so-called "fly over states". Conquering each province manually sux hairy ballzz.

If, acording to you, only those islands holding a military instalation shoudl be in there, i think you would agree that Diego Garcia island should be back, shouldn't it? I mean, it was (and it still is) a very important aeronaval base in the indian ocean!

It it was an important installation by the time, yes it should be there. However do not forget that if you play USA and base your major fleet(s) there it should sound as "on rase gratis" (aka "I offer everyone free lunch") to japanese convoy raiders.

I still remember when in the old HOI2 forum the people dreamt with a map full of provinces, that was one of the reasons for HOI3 10000 land provs...

HoI3 :
* sucks, hence the vitality of this forum while for most games a new version obsoletes the previous one. The 10k landsprovinces, regiment level units and shitton of micromanagemnet are a major part in HoI3's suckage.
* has a decent AI system wich avoids you the hassle of manually conquering each confetti province.

Since "people dreamt with a map full of provinces", as a grown up man you should be aware that some sexual fantasies are best left as sexual fantasies instead of being actually enacted. The map "full of province" is a prime example of a fantasy whose actual implementation turned out to be "full of sh*t".