More urban reions

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These are the provinces that I'd like to see represented as Urban:

Europe:
- London
- Birmingham
- Manchester
- Paris
- Marseilles
- Madrid
- Barcelona
- Rome
- Amsterdam
- Brussels
- Hamburg (above 1 million, and with the Groß Hamburg law of '37 even 1.6 (giving Hamburg towns that now are integral parts of the city)
- Essen (660000 inhabitants)
- Cologne (760000 inhabitants)
- Berlin (4.5 million)
- Munich (around 830000 inhabitants, in every regard a major city)
- Breslau (one of the largest cities in Germany at that time, in terms of population and size, more than 600000 inhabitants
-Leipzig (more than 700000 inhabitants, about the same size as Cologne, definitely should be an urban province as it was one of the top 5 cities in Germany back then)
-Dresden (around 640000 inhabitants, major industrial center, and administrative center, as well as important garrison center)
-Frankfurt (borderline, with about 550000 inhabitants, but a major industrial center)
- Vienna
- Prague
- Milan
- Budapest
- Warsaw
- Minsk
- Kiev
- Kharkov
- Moscow
- Leningrad
- Stalingrad
- Voronezh
- Kuybyshev
- Gorki
- Istanbul

Just wanted to add some German cities that seem to be ignored because they are not neccessary famous, or known to be large cities, but simply were back then.

Incendiary rounds aren't working better if the city is actually flamable? So I might not barricade myself into a city which could easily turned into a flaming hell... so a mainly wooden city should not give so much defensive bonus.

Well, that is indeed a major factor. The allies bombed the old parts of German cities, where houses were made out of mostly wood, with the full intention of creating a firestorm coming from those small, but central parts of the large cities which easily destroyed much more of the modern parts of cities that the allies didn't have to bomb.

So yeah, a city, made mostly out of wood can easily turned into the largest campfire in the world, if your intention is not to capture it.
It was an integral part of the allied strategical bombing strategy (does that sound wierd?).

 

[Battlecry]

Incendiary rounds aren't working better if the city is actually flamable? So I might not barricade myself into a city which could easily turned into a flaming hell... so a mainly wooden city should not give so much defensive bonus.

Again, one either annihilates a city, which can be done far easier by air, or attempts to take it. If you're only going to burn it down, why assault it at all?

 

[dannyboy2016]

Edited to include Shilo, Franzer, Jolt, Torenico, General_Grant, and Killerrabbit's suggestions.

Europe:
- London
- Birmingham
- Manchester
- Lisbon
- Paris
- Marseilles
- Madrid
- Barcelona
- Rome
- Milan
- Napoli
- Torino
- Genova
- Amsterdam
- Brussels
- Hamburg
- Essen
- Cologne
- Berlin
- Munich
- Breslau
- Leipzig
- Dresden
- Frankfurt
- Vienna
- Prague
- Budapest
- Warsaw
- Minsk
- Kiev
- Kharkov
- Moscow
- Leningrad
- Stalingrad
- Voronezh
- Kuybyshev
- Gorki
- Istanbul

Africa & Middle East
- Cairo
- Jerusalem
- Baghdad
- Alexandria
- Tehran

Asia/Oceania
- Tokyo
- Shanghai
- Beijing
- Wuhan
- Nanjing
- Mukden
- Guangzhou
- Jinan
- Harbin
- Hangzhou
- Xi'an
- Delhi
- Calcutta
- Bombay
- Singapore
- Hong Kong
- Sydney

Americas
- Washington DC
- New York
- Boston
- Pittsburgh
- Philadelphia
- Newark
- St. Louis
- Detroit
- Chicago
- Norfolk
- Los Angeles
- San Francisco
- Toronto
- Montreal
- Rio de Janeiro
- São Paulo
- Mexico City
- Buenos Aires

 

[naqada]

What about Cape Town and Johannesburg? I cannot find much information about their population in the 30's-40's, but since the gold and diamond rush was in the late years of the 19th century) which attracted many peopleÖ, i think these cities should be urban regions in HoI3. And oc they were quite important because of the mines.

 

[General_Grant]

Montreal was big in the 30's, it was the largest city in Canada (bigger than Toronto). It already had a few skyscrapers and an urban landscape.

 

[dannyboy2016]

Montreal was big in the 30's, it was the largest city in Canada (bigger than Toronto). It already had a few skyscrapers and an urban landscape.

Thats a good point. Montreal should be urban.

 

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nitpick, hong kong is on the list twice

 

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I add some Italians towns:

Napoli - 865.000 inhabitants
Torino - 629.000
Genova - 634.000

While for information:

Milano - 1.115.000
Roma - 1.150.000

Data from 1936 census ISTAT

 

[daemonofdecay]

Maybe there should be another type of terrain: a Light Urban (Suburban ), which could represent the cities that are not the most heavily built up or industrialized but still of a reasonable size, or those cities that have bigger populations and geographic size but relatively few large buildings.

For instance, some Japanese cities could be like that, when they had large populations and therefor lots of buildings but few of the bigger, more solid stone/brick/steel buildings that you would find in European/American cities.

This would give the larger but less developed cities something that would more accurately represent their nature.

 

[Bullfrog]

Maybe there should be another type of terrain: a Light Urban (Suburban ), which could represent the cities that are not the most heavily built up or industrialized but still of a reasonable size, or those cities that have bigger populations and geographic size but relatively few large buildings.

For instance, some Japanese cities could be like that, when they had large populations and therefor lots of buildings but few of the bigger, more solid stone/brick/steel buildings that you would find in European/American cities.

This would give the larger but less developed cities something that would more accurately represent their nature.

Johan said a while ago that provinces will be made up of various percentages of terrains, so your "light urban" would essentially be 65% plain, 25% urban (or whatever combination). I think that is sufficient to model your proposal.

 

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Americas
- Washington DC
- New York
- Boston
- Pittsburgh
- Philadelphia
- Newark
- St. Louis
- Detroit
- Chicago
- Norfolk
- Los Angeles
- San Francisco
- Toronto
- Montreal
- Rio de Janeiro
- São Paulo
- Mexico City
- Buenos Aires

What about Santiago de Chile???? in 1920 had 507.296 inhabitants and in 1940 practically reached the million (952.075)... I think it should be take in count also.

 

[daemonofdecay]

Johan said a while ago that provinces will be made up of various percentages of terrains, so your "light urban" would essentially be 65% plain, 25% urban (or whatever combination). I think that is sufficient to model your proposal.

Aha, thank you good sir. I had forgotten all about the percentages.

 

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Europe:
- Paris
- Marseille

And Lyon

Thre is a accurate number for creating an urban province ?

 

[Battlecry]

Thre is a accurate number for creating an urban province ?

Meaning?

 

[unmerged(94130)]

Meaning?

There is a floor for these proposals ?
I looked for the population of Minsk, about 300 000, and i've comparated with several cities...
Lyon was bigger so it can be added.
But Teheran it's about 260 000.

 

[Battlecry]

There is a floor for these proposals ?

This forum is the "floor" for any proposals you might want to make.
P'Dox has incorporated ideas presented on the forum many times before.
The map is still in alpha-stage so changes will still be made - That said, it's entirely possible P'Dox already has a method of deciding which cities will warrant 'urban' terrain (and what percentage that should be), so whether this thread will prove useful or not is up in the air.

EDIT: Actually it serves a purpose, even if Paradox never looks at it: If they don't include enough urban terrain, we'll have the lists/info in here with which to mod in more.

 

[shadow737]

What I believe needs to be urban:

Americas
- Washington DC
- New York
- Boston
- Philadelphia
- Newark
- Detroit
- Chicago
- (if split) Norfolk - the northern area where Newport News and the shipyards are
- Los Angeles
- San Francisco

South America and any other potential Chinese cities I'm not so sure.

These cities should be added to the list, Atlantic City is not a major US city at the time of WWII, though what should be done is urbanized provinces on the immediate boundary of New York City to represent the highly concentrated nature of the population of that region.

Pittsburgh
Toledo
St. Louis
Houston
Atlanta
Charleston, S.C.
Cleveland

All of these were very well industrialized and heavily populated at the time of WWII with significant population in the immediate surrounding areas as well.

Edit: light urbanized around New York City

 

[Battlecry]

I think perhaps you guys should come up with a minimum population figure, it would help focus research, and narrow things down a bit. Census data on all these cities is generally easy to find.

 

[shadow737]

I think perhaps you guys should come up with a minimum population figure, it would help focus research, and narrow things down a bit. Census data on all these cities is generally easy to find.

What I chose was highly centralized cities with significant industrial base and population at the time of World War II. Toledo and Pittsburgh were both major steel producing cities with numerous other manufacturing businesses in the region as well. Cleveland also is very concentrated at the time with numerous slaughteryards, meatpacking plants, and other factories in the region along with a decent number of good sized big towns and small cities nearby the same as Pittsburgh.

 

[Battlecry]

What I chose was highly centralized cities with significant industrial base and population at the time of World War II. Toledo and Pittsburgh were both major steel producing cities with numerous other manufacturing businesses in the region as well. Cleveland also is very concentrated at the time with numerous slaughteryards, meatpacking plants, and other factories in the region along with a decent number of good sized big towns and small cities nearby the same as Pittsburgh.

But relative numerical data will be important. Terrain is represented as a percentage ingame (or at least it very probably will be), so if London is 100% urban, what percentage should a Pittsburg, or a Calcutta, or a Tokyo be?

I'm not making judgements on any of the cities you guys have named, I'm just trying to find a way to make these lists more useful in game terms.
"Big", "Dense" and "Concentrated" are too ambivalent, because there's always somewhere "bigger", "denser" and/or "more concentrated".