MORE TRADITIONS PLS !!!

[DanielPrates]

I don't really understand this comment? Claiming systems or building districts should cost unity?

Yeah. If everything costs a bit of both, there is only so much you can do at any given time, and we have a better mechanic to reflect the administrative/bureocratic effort demanded by.... well, anything really.

Assume everything that consumes unity (such as traditions) and influence (such as outposts) remain as they are. But districts require 1 influence and 1 unity. Buildings too. Capital building upgrades costs 50 of each. Starbase upgrades 75 of each. Or some other ammount.

You would be caught thinking all the time if it is time to expand or consolidate, go tall or go wide, invest in the military or in pruduction, specialize what you have or go building outposts all over.... since you have a limited amount of administrative effort accumulated. You know? STRATEGY, of which this game is so painfully lacking except foe going all in, all over the place. As things stand people just have the "choice" of maxing everything out: fleet capacity, jobs, pops, extraction....

 

[Armillus Dynat]

Why not just copy paste the idea system from Europa? I mean the entire thing is sitting right there.

Have three groups of six tradition trees, with 5 -7 perks per tree.
Trees don't have to be linear.
Have each group correspond to one type of research.
Maybe change it so that each perk is paid for with research somehow.
Add more mutually exclusive ideas if you feel like it.

Stellaris has added some really new and interesting mechanics to paradox's stable, but I feel like not every system has to reinvent the wheel.
Idk I appreciate that its a more difficult problem than I give it credit for, but it seems like a really easy solution.

Edit - Oh and make it so you can't choose more than half of your trees from one group.

 

[Bankipriel]

More traditions, until today they only made 7 traditions.

I agree, however, until such a time as more (& more different) traditions are added, I use the following mod, and would rate it as probably my third favorite mod ever, right behind Giulli's Planetary Modifiers+ and the suite of Planetary Diversity mods (which I'm counting as one mod): https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=946222466

It has flaws, and is unbalanced in favor of the player, who can make better chains of complex selections, but it definitely makes for some really interesting player choices that can change how you play the game. After years of playing with it, I now find the base game traditions feel like an empty shell of a concept. The mod also makes spiritualism much stronger, as rushing traditions becomes on par with rushing tech.

 

[Yuribgp_BR]

Why would more traditions be better?

Seriously?

 

[Yuribgp_BR]

I feel like it would be more impactful if some traditions were mutually exclusive. In all my playthroughs I end up unlocking all the traditions. I think if a society has adopted the Supremacy tradition and become more war-like, that should make it harder for my society to unlock peaceful trees like maybe Harmony, for example.

Very good

 

[InvisibleBison]

Seriously?

Yes, seriously. More options is not necessarily better.

 

[Zetesofos]

I feel like it would be more impactful if some traditions were mutually exclusive. In all my playthroughs I end up unlocking all the traditions. I think if a society has adopted the Supremacy tradition and become more war-like, that should make it harder for my society to unlock peaceful trees like maybe Harmony, for example.

I don't think you have to necessarily make Traditions mutually exclusive, but I like the idea of having, say 15 of them available, and you can still only get 7 total over a game (plus 1 perk for each). So, that way you have to pick and choose which 7 in a given game you want.

 

[BrokenSky]

Yes, seriously. More options is not necessarily better.

At the moment the problem is that there aren't enough options that you can't just take everything. More options would obviously solve this by making it take longer; in the sense that a problem fixed is better than a problem left to sit there an be annoying, more options would, by default, be better.

(Of course there are other ways to solve this problem, which have also been discussed in the thread, along with pros and cons., but more options would be the most straight foreword option)

 

[HFY]

At the moment the problem is that there aren't enough options that you can't just take everything.

Agreed. The only current option is which order you take the Traditions, because you will be taking all of them, often long before the late-game begins.

As an additional thought, it would be nice if there were ways to spend Unity other than Traditions and Ambitions. Then you might actually strategize about Unity beyond "what do I take for my 2nd Tradition after Expansion?"

 

[methegrate]

I would add more traditions, but mostly without more tradition trees.

Tradition trees should look like the National Focus trees from Hearts of Iron IV. They should be in-depth and sprawling, with mutually exclusive tradeoffs and a major impact on how your empire develops. They shouldn't just unlock %-bonuses but real, active options for your empire.

Then a lot of the problem would solve itself. A few of the tradition trees should be mutually exclusive, like domination vs. harmony and supremacy vs. diplomacy. And spiritualism should get a related tree. Other than that, though, if they had the kind of depth of a national focus tree, players would never have the chance to get through more than one or two in a game.

 

[Tamwin5]

I would add more traditions, but mostly without more tradition trees.

Tradition trees should look like the National Focus trees from Hearts of Iron IV. They should be in-depth and sprawling, with mutually exclusive tradeoffs and a major impact on how your empire develops. They shouldn't just unlock %-bonuses but real, active options for your empire.

Then a lot of the problem would solve itself. A few of the tradition trees should be mutually exclusive, like domination vs. harmony and supremacy vs. diplomacy. And spiritualism should get a related tree. Other than that, though, if they had the kind of depth of a national focus tree, players would never have the chance to get through more than one or two in a game.

I could also see mutually exclusive options for a tree: For example, Supremacy could have an offensive and defensive approach, diplomacy a Galactic Community or Federation approach, etc.

 

[methegrate]

I could also see mutually exclusive options for a tree: For example, Supremacy could have an offensive and defensive approach, diplomacy a Galactic Community or Federation approach, etc.

I like that too. Then you’d have the idea that each of these represents some important aspect of an empire in general, with your choices reflecting how your empire pursues them.

 

[Dragatus]

(Of course there are other ways to solve this problem, which have also been discussed in the thread, along with pros and cons., but more options would be the most straight foreword option)

I think the most straightforward option is actually increasing cost, especially by how much it goes up the more traditions you take.

 

[BrokenSky]

I think the most straightforward option is actually increasing cost, especially by how much it goes up the more traditions you take.

I mean technically yes, probably? It would certainly be the easiest to implement (just change a few numbers), but that option wouldn't really make the system more fun to play with (in my opinion), it'd just make it feel worth even less, and it wouldn't fix the underlying problem.

 

[MordridBlack]

I wouldn't mind having more traditions, but I'd also love for AP slots as well

If there is an option to get every possible tree unlocked for a bunch of AP that'd be great

and if someone tells me that isn't possible in a game, I'm going to call bs

you can set the game up to last an exceedingly long time, which would give you ample opportunity to unlock as much as possible

the only reason you wouldn't get unlock everything is if you lose in a war


given how easy it is to terraform or genemod or turn into robots so you can colonize worlds, every world is a viable world to colonize, if just for the building tiles that you can use for unity generation

heck me and my friends regularly play with a mod that adds on an extra 3 or 4 rows of traditions onto the normal and we can get more than the original 7 unlocked


the biggest issue with limiting what traditions we can take is that eventually metas will be found within that area to determine what traditions you always need to take depending on what empire type you are playing

we already have that to some degree with AP, and empires...do we really need to push it in somewhere else

so that if you aren't running a meta empire with meta traditions and meta AP you are essentially either useless or prime real-estate for being conquered

 

[Caladors]

I feel like there are two things that could be done with traditions.

One is branching trees like, if you chose with expansion you could chose either gain an extra pop or you can build districts/remove blockers while colonising and that would make it so people would be like hmmm this is something I care about more.

The mutually exclusive traditions. Like you chose expansion or environmentalism, one will give you better ability to expand the other will give you better admin and unity.

 

[Unseelie]

The reason I'm not terribly miffed about the percentage modifiers is that I'm an alien species most of the time, and I head-cannon how my species gets to that abstraction much of the time. I don't argue with the people who suggest that the unlocks ought...do something...as that sounds neat, but what is "do something" as a suggestion? Unlocks ship-classes, or better habitability or...I'm really drawing a blank.

Edit: well, I shouldn't have been.

things like "gain Driven Assimiliator" as a finisher effect is an idea.
so is "your species gains voidborne"

Others that I can think of are:
Upgraded government types.
Unlocking research trees,
getting different ship classes: Frigates, Dreadnaughts, gunboats, whatever.

 

[MordridBlack]

I feel like there are two things that could be done with traditions.

One is branching trees like, if you chose with expansion you could chose either gain an extra pop or you can build districts/remove blockers while colonising and that would make it so people would be like hmmm this is something I care about more.

The mutually exclusive traditions. Like you chose expansion or environmentalism, one will give you better ability to expand the other will give you better admin and unity.

again though that just leads into a worse "this is meta culture" than we already have

like outside of rp games i almost never see unique empires

it is all the same copy/pasta stuff to tech rush and dominate as fast as possible

i don't really need that in my traditions where if you don't have x tradition as y empire you are basically asking to not be allowed to play in a mp game or get killed off early if you do get a chance to play cause by 25 years in some dude has cruisers

 

[AxeBeard]

no, traditions are a finished feature that can't be sold again.

 

[Tamwin5]

no, traditions are a finished feature that can't be sold again.

Traditions were part of a free update, not a DLC. Ascension Perks were originally part of a DLC, but were moved to base game because so many future DLCs ended up using them.