George LeS

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Arilou said:
Personally I'd prefer this be modified by DP sliders, if at all. And given how the idea is to replace gunpowder with bow-armed infantry why not just keep it tied to tech-level?

Because the Turks weren't behind in land tech, while they were still successfully using archers. I want to emphasize that I'm not pushing this point as hard as the basic 6-types option. But if possible, I'd like to see it.


Arilou said:
I can see why that would be desireable, but frankly, I don't like it: Not with the abstract "troop numbers" model. Upgrading troops was a hassle in HOI2 and they did everything they could to make it "streamlined".

I don't see this as a big deal, as you can currently have your troops, in a given province, divided up into many contingents. The AI seems to prefer it that way. The problems involved can be solved by 2 changes which should be adopted anyway, whether my suggestions here are accepted or rejected:

1. A commander should be in charge of all the troops in his province, whether they are "his" unit, or not. This is already true in sieges & battles, it should be general. The one exception is where there are 2 or more leaders present, in which the juniors should be in charge of "their" units, the sr. officer gets the rest.

2. When you use "select all" to move a bunch of troops in different contingents, they should move in company, & arrive together. If you want them to move separately, you can give them orders separately. (This would be a very minor change in the game as it is, with great benefits.)

Arilou said:
As I see it the very act of advancing in tech also includes the cost of actually *implementing* said tech. (though a nice idea would be to tie tech-cost to your actual standing army size, would make demobilizing after war even more desireable)

Not necessarily. IRL, these changes often came slowly. I wouldn't mind seeing the option to spend a boatload of $ to convert quickly, but IMO, that's a peripheral matter.

Arilou said:
Paradoxically :)p) while I don't think that is a good idea for land units I could see it for navies.... Though still, given the timeframe we're dealing with, wouldn't it be a bit too detailed? (After all, how long did a warship actually serve?)

Some served over a century. Victory was almost as old as Nelson was, & at least one ship which had fought the Armada was still in service under Charles II. In the 17th & 18th C's, the improvements were continuous, albeit incremental, but no large fleet could afford to replace wholesale.
 

Arilou

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Not necessarily. IRL, these changes often came slowly. I wouldn't mind seeing the option to spend a boatload of $ to convert quickly, but IMO, that's a peripheral matter.

My point is that this is (in part) what you are doing when you pour money into the land tech slider.
 

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Arilou said:
For user-definable this would be great, but I think we need to cut the dev's some slack: 6 units is a "manageable" number (still abstract enough to work for most nations, too) but as you hit more units you start going into diminishing returns (you'll have to make the units different, useful, fun, and still relatively easy to understand what they do). That's a lot of work.

Having too many unit types leads to a lot of problems (either you end up with RTW's "Ahistorical in the name of fun") or you'll end up with 22 unit types who have only miniscule differeneces..... I much prefer a certain level of abstraction.
Well that's why i say allowing people to customize their names and avatars for various units would be easier and still give a more "personal" feel without as much underlying code.
Arilou said:
I think designing ships would possibly be a bit controversial.... Though yeah, I guess ship-types could actually be an area where you have definite, actual, tech-advancement that is realistic and historical (ala Vicky/HoI)

Designing your own ships is probably a bit too much though.
Yea desgining your own ships might be a bit much, but still some more variations. Galleys don't need to really be split, but Galleons and transports should be.
 

KaRei

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Support of infantry, cavalry and artillery sprites - extraction for Vote Thread
This is an extraction of ideas from the current discussion thread. These ideas are from various people from the thread. I only merge them into one post.

Game is supporting different sounds if army with artillery or cavalry superiority begin to move. Why don't use also cavalry and artillery sprites in these cases? Game should support all three sprites: infantry, cavalry and artillery sprites dependent on which unit is in superiority in the army.

It would enhance the game play as well as the mod options.
 
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I would prefer a simple army system like the one from CK. I surely wouldn't like the overtly complex HoI2 system.
 

KaRei

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You can notify, that in several threads are appearing posts like:

idea name - extraction for Vote Thread
blablabla

These posts are extraction of idea from the current thread. These posts are targeted by Great Vote Thread to help voters decide if they want the idea in EU3 or no. For now only several people voted there.

Decide what you want in EU3. Vote for it in Great Vote Thread.

EDIT: For those who voted there already, during the time new ideas will be placed to vote list, so keep an eye if it changed.
 
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KaRei

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Support of more figures in sprite dependent on army size - extraction for Vote Thread
This is an extraction of ideas from the current discussion thread. These ideas are from various people from the thread. I only merge them into one post.

What about different sized units? So people could look at the map and see, ok 3 marching soldiers, medium sized mostly infantry. Or maybe 4 soldiers and 2 horses, large army with a lot of cavarly and infantry.

Number of figures representing the army size could be:
20K and less - 1 unit figure
20K - 40K - 2 unit figures
40K - 60K - 3 unit figures
60K - 80K - 4 unit figures
80K - 100K - 5 unit figures
100K - 120K - 6 unit figures
120K and more - 1 officer figure

It would enhance the game play as well as the mod options. On the other hand intelligence in past had its limitations ... and details about how many guns or how many horses is not that relevant as it's a bit theoretical. It could overcrowd the map, and it will be not your vote if you indeed prefer single unit sprites instead of the 6 *blogs* in vicky.
 
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KaRei said:
Support of more figures in sprite dependent on army size - extraction for Vote Thread

What about different sized units? So people could look at the map and see, ok 3 marching soldiers, medium sized mostly infantry. Or maybe 4 soldiers and 2 horses, large army with a lot of cavarly and infantry.

Number of figures representing the army size could be:
20K and less - 1 unit figure
20K - 40K - 2 unit figures
40K - 60K - 3 unit figures
60K - 80K - 4 unit figures
80K - 100K - 5 unit figures
100K - 120K - 6 unit figures
120K and more - 1 officer figure

It would enhance the game play as well as the mod options. On the other hand it will be not your vote if you indeed prefer single unit sprites instead of the 6 *blogs* in vicky.
I fear this would overcrowd the map. I prefer keeping the way it goes now, with a numbered approximation of the troops numbers. If people want to add an intelligence/scouting aspect, that's fine, but graphics should stay simple.

The engine is the priority ; graphics are second. So please, guys, don't go pushing Paradox to focus too much on graphics.

Remember Diplomacy. ;)
 

KaRei

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Ambassador said:
I fear this would overcrowd the map. I prefer keeping the way it goes now, with a numbered approximation of the troops numbers. If people want to add an intelligence/scouting aspect, that's fine, but graphics should stay simple.

The engine is the priority ; graphics are second. So please, guys, don't go pushing Paradox to focus too much on graphics.

Remember Diplomacy. ;)
Go to Great Vote Thread and vote for your choice!
I will add your comment to the extraction. ;)

EDIT: Extraction was edited.
 

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KaRei said:
Support of more figures in sprite dependent on army size - extraction for Vote Thread

What about different sized units? So people could look at the map and see, ok 3 marching soldiers, medium sized mostly infantry. Or maybe 4 soldiers and 2 horses, large army with a lot of cavarly and infantry.

Number of figures representing the army size could be:
20K and less - 1 unit figure
20K - 40K - 2 unit figures
40K - 60K - 3 unit figures
60K - 80K - 4 unit figures
80K - 100K - 5 unit figures
100K - 120K - 6 unit figures
120K and more - 1 officer figure

It would enhance the game play as well as the mod options. On the other hand it will be not your vote if you indeed prefer single unit sprites instead of the 6 *blogs* in vicky.

How about making it an graphic option? You can choose to see the troops in the classic 1 spiriter form, or in a system like the one you mention?
 

KaRei

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Smeghead said:
How about making it an graphic option? You can choose to see the troops in the classic 1 spiriter form, or in a system like the one you mention?
I am wondering why these things were not discussed before??? I made only an extraction what was said about the idea on this thread. :p
On these post are not my proposals, it's proposals of others, but I only merge them to one place.

And option to switch could be a good choice. I'm only afraid that Paradox will make static switch only with one choice. :(
 

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Mowers said:
again, how would this improve gameplay?

Its a distraction and an expensive programming cost that doesnt add to the fun or historical element of the core model - which is running a state.

You want additional and large features you have to pay the cost in other core areas and thats not a good idea.

Agree 100% with Mowers (a rarity I know).

Additionally, the more types of units you have the more chances that someone will find a way to exploit these differences. Even with only three types of troops there seem to be a number of exploits in EU2. Imagine the possibilities if there were to be five or six types. :eek:
 

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Sonny said:
Agree 100% with Mowers (a rarity I know).

Additionally, the more types of units you have the more chances that someone will find a way to exploit these differences. Even with only three types of troops there seem to be a number of exploits in EU2. Imagine the possibilities if there were to be five or six types. :eek:

They will be obselete every couple of years thats hard to exploit

You build your troops in EUII and as if by magic they all recieve their new muskets and are totaly up to speed on their new doctrine as soon as a new tech level is reached, in every colony as well! All two million of them. :D

Adding differing units will prevent exploits ;) and adds speed bumps to unresttricted expansion. ;)

Alot of important military developments happened in different countries if you get my meaning;)
 
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Yes, the more units you have the easier it is to exploit them. However oversimplication has its problems too, FE, no differance between field and siege artillery, no way to have archers or other support fire, etc.
 

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Jinnai said:
Yes, the more units you have the easier it is to exploit them. However oversimplication has its problems too, FE, no differance between field and siege artillery, no way to have archers or other support fire, etc.


So no nation on earth has exploited a new weapon system ;)

We dont know the models paradox intend to put in place with regards peace settlements and Empire size ;) T

EUII became a game of exploit so much so that I thought it was called Exploit Universalis!

In a game from 1453 to 1780(ish) the AI will have to be protected or games will continue to have no point after 50 years. Reaching a tech level and your entire army is uprated without COST or PENALTY will lead to games in SP as short as in EUII

Similiarly if you are leading the tech race THE AI CAN NEVER CATCH UP This is another reason why I strongly advocate units.

Example

Your Spain your ahead of the Tech race your Tercios are running wild. Prince Maurice of Nassau reforms hit the Dutch by scripted event your behind again. IT protects the AI and lengthens the game.

In EU III features cannot be considered in isolation like EUII everything has to interact that will be the secret to it's success :)
 

KaRei

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More unit types than 3 - extraction for Vote Thread
This is an extraction of ideas from the current discussion thread. These ideas are from various people from the thread. I only merge them into one post.

EU3 should support more than only 3 unit types. 6 units might be good.

  • Heavy Infantry (Pikemen, Footknights) - medium shock, medium fire (increases with tech to model better use of guns as time goes on), high cost
  • Light Infantry (Peasants, other lightly armed troops) - low shock, low fire, low cost
  • Heavy Cavalry (Knights evolving into cuirassiers and "melee cavalry") - high shock, high cost
  • Light Calvalry (Horse archers evolving into dragoons) - low shock, medium fire
  • Field Artillery - very high fire, high cost
  • Siege Artillery - high siege value
The two types of artillery should either be able to do each others jobs at reduced effectiveness or not at all.

The game should also support more types of ships. Galleys and transports could remain, War ships could split.

It would also perhaps be interesting to have a few pre-set "armies" to be recruited (maybe say, five) with distributed the recruitable troops according to pre-set % (so you click on "Siege army" and it gives you 20% siege artillery, 5% field artillery, 15% light cavalry, 10% heavy cavalry, 30% heavy inf and 20% light inf or whatever).

EU2 units are abstract. Using more units will delete this abstarction. It could be more realistic, but abstraction means easy to use. In the midst of an MP war it could be hard enough to find time to build troops etc., especially when your opponents don't want to pause the game.
On the other side is more fun with more units.
 
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Similiarly if you are leading the tech race THE AI CAN NEVER CATCH UP This is another reason why I strongly advocate units.

One way to simulate this would be to increase the neighbour bonus. Another idea I'd like would be to have a further increase of the neighbour bonus if you are fighting an enemy with superior tech (IE: you "learn" from them as they grind your armies into the dust)