More realistic World Map... as Globe?

[seattle]

Why even discuss an unrealistic proposal? The map is already finished (with some polishing left). Either make this a "What map should HoI V use?" or focus on possible adjustments to the already existing map.
This is like proposing Project Armstrong to be Victoria 3, after HoI4 has already been announced to be Project Armstrong...

 

[FOARP]

Why even discuss an unrealistic proposal? The map is already finished (with some polishing left). Either make this a "What map should HoI V use?" or focus on possible adjustments to the already existing map.
This is like proposing Project Armstrong to be Victoria 3, after HoI4 has already been announced to be Project Armstrong...

It is worthwhile to keep pointing out that, with a globe-map, all the issues of perspective, size, shape, distances caused by a projection map would basically disappear. I don't expect to see a globe-map in a Paradox game in the next five years, but I do hope to see one eventually.

 

[alanschu]

The only real reason is realistic travel distances between provinces up North compared to the equator.
Luckily for ground combat the North is only arctic, the equator desert and jungle.
It only really matters for ship travel, but that would be just about the last thing I would urge the devs to put effort in regarding fixing the naval system.

Aren't the distances between provinces defined manually?

 

[TheRomanRuler]

What is EvW?

Hearts of Iron: East vs West...

 

[seattle]

It is worthwhile to keep pointing out that, with a globe-map, all the issues of perspective, size, shape, distances caused by a projection map would basically disappear. I don't expect to see a globe-map in a Paradox game in the next five years, but I do hope to see one eventually.

Of course and I love the Superpower2 map. I seriously hope that PI will make "Google Earth" playable in the near future. However, it's not gonna be in HoI4. That's a fact and it's probably for the best right now. The step would have been too big.

Does anyone know if Antarctica will be on the map? IIRC it used to be in HoI1. I'd love to create a secret Nazi Neuschwabenland outpost there.

 

[Pete0714]

Unfortunately it appears far too late to do anthing like this - we've seen the map, it's flat, and that's the end of the story I'm afraid.

Johan's talked a bit about the versatility of the Clausewitz engine, but AFAIK either it cannot handle a 3D globe, or it has not yet been adapted to do so.



Basically it would make all distances, all sizes, and all shapes accurate, enable travel over the poles (including bombing/rockets). Consider how far appart Alaska and Russia are in HOI3 - thousands of miles apart - but in reality they're only about 50 miles apart.



Saying that you don't want to see this ever is just silly. Realistically at some point they'll be designing a new engine and the subject of globular mapping will come up, and if it can be easily implemented at that stage, it will be.

I guess my argument would be that , for this period of time, the practicality of travel over the poles and in arctic regions is not really there for the military tech there in WW2. I would argue that for eras after world war 2 (later cold war and modern day) I would love to see a globe. But for WW2, without long range rockets or very long range air units or practical naval routes for ships through arctic regions , I see no use for this, and it would just be a waste of development time. But good points for future games, maybe. just keep it semi modern ( I don't want to see a Rome game with a globe, please, I'll start growling and foaming at the mouth) .

 

[Balesir]

Aren't the distances between provinces defined manually?

I believe that they are calculated by the engine, but that brings up an interesting point...

It's not actually necessary to have a map that looks like a globe in order to have "realistic" distances between provinces. The provinces, as they are used in the game, are essentially nodes - units travel a distance that represents a point in the source province to a point in the destination province in order to move from one province to another. If each province was listed in the data files with a longitude and a latitude, the actual (great circle) distance between those points could be calculated just as easily as the "straight line" distance can be calculated from a flat map.

Such a scheme would mean that units near the poles seem to travel more quickly than units near the equator, but the travel times would actually be realistic - it's the map projection that would be giving a false impression of the distances. It might be a bit odd to watch, but it could work perfectly well with the current engine.

 

[Beagá]

Good point. The problem is that it would still be counterintuitive to see a unit travelling fast in what is a huge, say, swedish province.

 

[keneticpest]

A globe map would only be useful in a post WWII game, say EvW for example, since nukes would have to fly over the poles in order to be used effectively. I don't see much use for it in WWII or prior, though.

 

[CanOmer]

A globe that flattens as you zoom in would be the best of both worlds for me. I think one of the Civilizations has this feature.

Contrarily, it should be flattened when max zoom out to see entire world on one big picture. When zoom in to the globe, it would look flattened anyway similar to Google Earth.

 

[-Toni82-]

A globe map would only be useful in a post WWII game, say EvW for example, since nukes would have to fly over the poles in order to be used effectively. I don't see much use for it in WWII or prior, though.

Why?
The earth was always a globe.

 

[Charles Reeps]

Why?
The earth was always a globe.

No, it used to be flat and you could fall off the edges

 

[keneticpest]

Why?
The earth was always a globe.

Your point?

 

[-Toni82-]

Your point?

That the game era decision should not dictate such things.

 

[Pete0714]

That the game era decision should not dictate such things.

But strategically, can you name one thing that you can do with a global map in a WW2 game that you can't do on a flat map? Think about it, and let me know.

 

[-Toni82-]

But strategically, can you name one thing that you can do with a global map in a WW2 game that you can't do on a flat map? Think about it, and let me know.

Off course its a taste thing, which probably mostly simulation-freaks would like to have. If I could have a real globe on large zoom level, I would be happy. Its the same with music, strategical useless but for other reason inside.
Dont think it will be there in HOI4, priorities are somewhere else I hope, still I think it should not be no reason that a WW2 game could'nt have a globe, cause its WW2.

 

[FOARP]

But strategically, can you name one thing that you can do with a global map in a WW2 game that you can't do on a flat map? Think about it, and let me know.

It's about map design and aesthetics - the map will always have to suffer massive distortions of size and shape in order to be projected onto a 2D rectangle. A 3D globe is genuinely the only way to avoid this.

Is it a huge problem? No. Is it a problem? Yes, and hopefully Paradox will one day get around to addressing it.

 

[Joemit]

Suppose it might be good. The problem I see in it though is that if I wanted to export games from Vic3 to Hoi4 I wouldn't be able to unless Vic3 was also a globe. But then I wouldn't be able to export from Eu4-Vic3.

 

[Jazumir]

I believe that they are calculated by the engine, but that brings up an interesting point...

It's not actually necessary to have a map that looks like a globe in order to have "realistic" distances between provinces. The provinces, as they are used in the game, are essentially nodes - units travel a distance that represents a point in the source province to a point in the destination province in order to move from one province to another. If each province was listed in the data files with a longitude and a latitude, the actual (great circle) distance between those points could be calculated just as easily as the "straight line" distance can be calculated from a flat map.

Such a scheme would mean that units near the poles seem to travel more quickly than units near the equator, but the travel times would actually be realistic - it's the map projection that would be giving a false impression of the distances. It might be a bit odd to watch, but it could work perfectly well with the current engine.

Brilliant. I dont think that the ´speed distorition´ should be a big problem - not for long at least, as one would get used to it. Maybe, occassionaly someone might pop into the forum and report a bug about units at the poles moving faster...

This isnt even totally unrealistic for #4 to have - it´s basically just a matter of rendering the finshed map twice and cross-refer the results, showing one, using the other for calcs (or somesuch - there must be some sort of formula which translates one to the other).

 

[CanOmer]