• We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.

Phoenix Dace

Elephant!
20 Badges
Mar 13, 2005
1.154
1
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • 500k Club
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Darkest Hour
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
We all complained back in the day when HOI2 had predetermined leader deaths and all the German generals started dying in 1945, when, of course, the German player had conquered all the way to the Pacific coast and was halfway through the American Midwest. So Paradox, answering to the fans' requests, removed the leader deathdates. However, they removed all of them, from the people that died in combat to the people executed post-war. This is a good thing. Predetermined leader deaths due to combat make little sense in a game where that general could be relaxing himself in a spa in Milan.

However, in the time since that happened, I have only ever had a non-deterministic leader death once, when one of my British generals was killed in combat in northern Italy, forcing me to panic and find a new commander for one of my HQ armies. Reading through leader files for the CLMIP, I have found a lot of deaths due to combat, and I think these aren't represented enough in HOI2.

So I think the chance for the random general death/retirement events should be upped dramatically, so that you'll actually see a bunch of them every time you play. Of course this would only apply to leaders in combat, while outside of combat death events would be rare and retirement events more common (and prioritized for Old Guard leaders, especially those active since the beginning of the game in high ranking positions, plus people not assigned to a command).

For air marshals, death event chances would not be modified by being in combat, since the general wouldn't be personally flying a plane.

For admirals, the chances of a death in combat would be increased dramatically. I have never once seen an admiral die in years of playing the game, and reading through biographies on Japanese and Italian admirals, they died all the time, thanks to their personal presence in the combat and the high likelihood of being killed thanks to a hit to the bridge of their flagship or if their ship sank. On the other hand, death for all ships in a unit being sunk should not be guaranteed, as there are many other instances of them escaping on liferafts and being picked up by rescue craft later.



In short, leaders died all the time throughout the real war, for a number of reasons, and I think this should be increased in HOI2, since it almost never happens as it is now.
 
Upvote 0

Gul Brown

Gul, Not Legate
22 Badges
Mar 28, 2005
2.071
0
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Battle for Bosporus
  • Crusader Kings III: Royal Edition
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Knights of Honor
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Hearts of Iron II: Armageddon
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Supreme Ruler 2020
  • Hearts of Iron III Collection
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Cities in Motion
I would be for some leaders dying in combat [as in an actual battle they are leading] Perhaps they could be captured etc.
 

Myth

Strategy Cognoscenti
33 Badges
Jul 8, 2005
7.277
7
  • Shadowrun Returns
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • BATTLETECH
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Shadowrun: Dragonfall
  • Shadowrun: Hong Kong
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Crusader Kings III: Royal Edition
  • Hearts of Iron II: Armageddon
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Stellaris
  • Knights of Pen and Paper 2
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis III: Collection
  • 500k Club
  • Semper Fi
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Magicka
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Deus Vult
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II
what I would suggest, at least in regards to army leaders, is that the lower their rank the more likely it is that they die. this chance is also increased by such things as being attacked on multiple axes or encircled, as well as during combat events such as breakthrough, encirclement and ambush. imho it should be less likely that generals die if they are attacking than if they are defending, though it can certainly be argued that there've been many close cases even with generals who've been on the offensive (Dietrich, in France during '40, springs to mind).
 

shadow737

Colonel
72 Badges
Nov 10, 2006
984
542
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Semper Fi
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • 500k Club
  • Europa Universalis III: Collection
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Europa Universalis: Rome
  • Stellaris
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • BATTLETECH
  • Stellaris: Nemesis
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Deus Vult
  • Diplomacy
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Ancient Space
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • For the Motherland
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
I agree that generals do need a little more risk in their life. However some deaths should be conditioned on events such as the assassination attempt against Hitler. If that event fires then let a random number of German generals be killed over the next few months as happened in the war.

Also if a nation has a major revolution perhaps several generals and minsters should die in the overthrow. Picture the British Isles collapsing from the Axis invasion, Mosley coming to power, Churchill is probably a dead man if he is captured by Mosley and the B.U.F. (British Union of Fascists). Also some generals and other officers are not going to survive the purge.

The same would apply to a Communist overthrow of a democratic nation or the defeat of the Communists or Fascists by a Democracy, though many of the officers and officials would probably be tried and jailed with only the worst sentenced to death.
 

unmerged(73544)

Second Lieutenant
Apr 5, 2007
106
0
shadow737 said:
I agree that generals do need a little more risk in their life. However some deaths should be conditioned on events such as the assassination attempt against Hitler. If that event fires then let a random number of German generals be killed over the next few months as happened in the war.

Also if a nation has a major revolution perhaps several generals and minsters should die in the overthrow. Picture the British Isles collapsing from the Axis invasion, Mosley coming to power, Churchill is probably a dead man if he is captured by Mosley and the B.U.F. (British Union of Fascists). Also some generals and other officers are not going to survive the purge.

The same would apply to a Communist overthrow of a democratic nation or the defeat of the Communists or Fascists by a Democracy, though many of the officers and officials would probably be tried and jailed with only the worst sentenced to death.

Very well put here all around. Really got a good "what if" for random events there. Be interesting to see in future versions if they bring such things in. I think that anytime a typically major power is truely invaded; IE on their home soil then these events should happen. Just look at France when the days went after the breakthough at Sedan. Defeatism, loyalty questioned. Look at Stalin, lining up his Generals to be shot as the Wermacht rolled east.
Perhaps we'll see this happen. Upon territorial loss, a possibility will exist that a leader will be killed, or simply removed from circulation.
Even Hitler removed some of his most ablest generals after the failure to take Moscow in 1941. I don't believe he shot any of them at that time, he saved that for after Von Stauffenberg disrupted his hearing a bit.
Maybe each time you loose a battle their will be a random check to see if your sacked. But I think I would only apply this to say home territories and/or key hexes....you know...Berlin...Moscow....