More Negative Species Traits

[corsairmarks]

Each expansion brings a few new interesting, positive species traits. However, there are many more positive traits than negative traits - and it is a little boring to have the same small few negative traits built-in to the game.

I would like to see more negative traits that cause interesting side effects. I want to differentiate my custom species based on their weaknesses as well as their strengths.

A few "opposite" traits are potentially low-hanging fruit: opposite of Thrifty, opposite of research bonus traits, opposite of resource production traits. However, even these aren't very interesting - they just add more options.

Instead, perhaps traits that add additional upkeep (% or a different resource), or causes Pops of the species to less likely to migrate, or perhaps happiness penalties based on the amount of Pops of other species present.

 

[Abdulijubjub]

Do the Rogue Servitors use both somehow?

No, just the standard gestalt one. Biotrophy happiness is completely unaffected by amenities. It's why you can use biotrophy stability to ditch all your maintenance drones.

You can be on 10/100 amenities required and biotrophies will still be sitting at 90% happiness and giving you ~80% approval rating. Gestalts still have approval rating (hence why livestock hurt stability), but amenities and happiness don't interact.

 

[GhostDanny]

Possessive or Hoarder, this species is extremely possessive over their belongings and will try to get as many of them as possible.
-2 trait points. +20% pop consumer-goods upkeep and an additional -10% happiness in not social welfare or better.
(does not like shared burdens) (not available to hiveminds)

 

[Stupid_Dragon]

Hoarder, this species likes to hoard a lot possessions. -1 trait point. +10% pop consumer-goods upkeep

Exists, called Wasteful. Never taken in practice because there are many less hindering -1 traits. To be honest I think it could easily be a -2 trait (while keeping Conservative at +1). Then you can make a trait like +10% food upkeep for -1 point.

 

[nightraven1901]

Put it on some of your pops but not all. Use the pops without the negative trait to generate your energy, and the pops with the negative trait for everything else. Boom, free trait points.

With how the AI assigns your pops? Yeah, have fun screaming at your screen, mate.

 

[GhostDanny]

With how the AI assigns your pops? Yeah, have fun screaming at your screen, mate.

Thrall worlds can easily do this with their slaves.

 

[EulersApprentice]

With how the AI assigns your pops? Yeah, have fun screaming at your screen, mate.

Joke's on you, I play Gestalts, who are MUCH easier to micromanage in this regard.

 

[Bloodbat]

The problem with that is that, negatives for those would just be free points.

So is Fleeting for slave species.

 

[GhostDanny]

So is Fleeting for slave species.

But do we really need more of such free negative traits?

 

[Bloodbat]

But do we really need more of such free negative traits?

I think if they're only 1 point, it would be fine. A "bad at trade" trait also couldn't be used by gestalts, so they wouldn't factor in either.

 

[Abdulijubjub]

On a related note: Because both positive and negative traits cost a trait pick, a -1 trait that's not more painful than its point total would warrant (aka, that you might consider taking) will necessarily have a mostly useless positive duo. And something that has a useful positive will have a far too painful negative duo.

Ex. 1: Rapid Breeders is quite good and Slow Breeders is incredibly painful unless you can completely dodge the penalty (like putting it on a non-growing template in an empire that's doing growth prioritization anyway). I might take Slow Breeders even on a primary template if it was -3, though.

Ex. 2: Weak is a reasonable choice, even on a main species (and somewhat desirable, if you want pacifist ethics attraction), while Strong is completely worthless (with Very Strong being even worse). Because 2.5% worker output is basically nothing. Wasteful on the 28 starting pops will cost you 1.05 CG (2.1 energy, ish). Weak on the 28 starting pops will cost you 1.4 energy/minerals/food combined.

Because picks are finite, traits shouldn't be exact inverses. If Slow Breeders and Non Adaptive were -7.5% for -2, people might take them more often (without a plan to completely dodge their effects). And if Conformist were +20% for 1 point, people might take that as well.

If the positive and negative traits were balanced, grabbing e.g. the -2 point negative growth trait and the 2 point Research trait should be (roughly) net neutral, and actually net positive if you can lean into the trait pick you've chosen with your choices after game start. And you should be able to say that for everything. Instead, there are a few negative traits that are almost free, and a few positive traits that are really good, and if you chose their inverses you'd be shooting yourself in the foot. Try starting with Docile and Slow Breeders, for instance.

The whole trait system could do with a balance pass. I appreciate the beauty (and simplicity) of the paired inverses with traits, but it's a recipe for polarized traits that are only good either as negatives or positive, with either the negative being a useful source of points or the positive being strong enough for its cost. And the whole balancing operation would probably be easier if all the trait costs and available points were just doubled, or tripled. You could be much more granular.

I say it's related, because it would feel like we have many more negative traits if all of them were actually useful picks. We might not need any more negative traits at all, in that case.

 

[HFY]

If Slow Breeders and Non Adaptive were -7.5% for -2, people might take them more often (without a plan to completely dodge their effects)

I have taken Non-Adaptive + Aquatic to completely dodge the current effect.

Also Non-Adaptive goes nicely with Void Dwellers, which again dodges the current effect.

 

[GhostDanny]

Non-adaptive is a completely free pick for Aquatic and any non planetary biome preference.
And semi free for undergrounder as you have a minimum of 50% anyways.

 

[nightraven1901]

Joke's on you, I play Gestalts, who are MUCH easier to micromanage in this regard.

Ahh, right. My pops are abyssmal at assigning themselves to any type of job. If Gestalts aren't idiots then maybe that'd work. Thanks for the tip!