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Dragonquack

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Since Government Reforms are now in the base game, are there any plans to compensate Dharma by adding one or two new Indian mission trees? Punjab, which was the predecessor of the large Sikh Empire, doesn’t have one, and neither does Nepal, these are the majors I feel need some missions
 
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sjobenrit

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I nominate Jaunpour (or that country with the gray colour nearby delhi), Multan, Sindh (maybe something with spreading Islam through India)
 
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Battlex

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Since Government Reforms are now in the base game, are there any plans to compensate Dharma by adding one or two new Indian mission trees? Punjab, which was the predecessor of the large Sikh Empire, doesn’t have one, and neither does Nepal, these are the majors I feel need some missions
Having the non dehli mission trees fire when you occupy dehli in war would be nice, as not all of them do, getting rid of Fort requirements in mewar would also be nice because you end up building 4 forts that border each other in the south
I nominate Jaunpour (or that country with the gray colour nearby delhi), Multan, Sindh (maybe something with spreading Islam through India)
Jaunpur is meant to reform into dehli and collapsed not long into game start.
Would be awesome if bahmanis got a disaster to break up into the 3 deccan sultanates, vijayangar has tonnes of seperatist events to help knock it out, so both could get their historical outcomes faster
 
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Dragonquack

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Having the non dehli mission trees fire when you occupy dehli in war would be nice, as not all of them do, getting rid of Fort requirements in mewar would also be nice because you end up building 4 forts that border each other in the south

Jaunpur is meant to reform into dehli and collapsed not long into game start.
Would be awesome if bahmanis got a disaster to break up into the 3 deccan sultanates, vijayangar has tonnes of seperatist events to help knock it out, so both could get their historical outcomes faster
While I agree in that the Bahmani Vijayanagar thing is unbalanced, I doubt there would be much game balance changers in India since Dharma wasn’t that long ago
 

Blust

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I'd like for Paradox to give some special attention to countries they give an achievement. I'm playing Nagaur for example, and playing with a generic set of idea and mission tree is just boring and honestly disappointing.

Even some OPM have more thoughts into it
 
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Battlex

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I'd like for Paradox to give some special attention to countries they give an achievement. I'm playing Nagaur for example, and playing with a generic set of idea and mission tree is just boring and honestly disappointing.

Even some OPM have more thoughts into it
As nagaur you can reform into dehli, or mughals if you culture shift
 

EarlKonrad

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Having the non dehli mission trees fire when you occupy dehli in war would be nice, as not all of them do, getting rid of Fort requirements in mewar would also be nice because you end up building 4 forts that border each other in the south

Jaunpur is meant to reform into dehli and collapsed not long into game start.
Would be awesome if bahmanis got a disaster to break up into the 3 deccan sultanates, vijayangar has tonnes of seperatist events to help knock it out, so both could get their historical outcomes faster

If thats the case than the devs failed miserably at that. I tend to play quite a lot in and around India and never once have I seen Jaunpur eat Dehli and then become Delhi. If fact, I've never seen Jaunpur die, they just expand a bit and then stagnate forever even though they often field one of or the largest army in the continent. I've also never seen anyone forming Delhi aside from their vassal who is railroaded to become Dehli if they with their first war.

What you said explains why Jaunpur doesn't have a mission tree. It always struck me as odd that they were the only Indian major to have no missions whatsoever. Still, they are just plain boring (no mission, very few events, ok but otherwise forgettable ideas, I guess they are the Denmark of India).
 
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Aquamancer

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In general, Indian nations that are using the generic North/South Indian mission tree would benefit from their mission tree getting a similar treatment to the upcoming Malay nations' mission trees. While all Malay nations have an extensive mission tree with 15 shared missions, the remaining two branches are devoted to missions unique to each nation, giving Malacca, Champa, Aceh, Brunei, Sunda, Tidore/Ternate & Bali different things to strive for, even if the majority of their mission-tree is the same for all of them.

Another way to make India more interesting would be to add formable countries to the region, thus giving some of the minor nations more interesting things to strive for. Unfortunately, I have no idea which tags would be suitable for being suitable as formable or reformable, since I'm not really well-versed in Indian history.

Jaunpur is meant to reform into dehli and collapsed not long into game start.
As nagaur you can reform into dehli, or mughals if you culture shift
Wouldn't it then make sense to give Jaunpur a short mission-tree that encourages them to form Delhi, as well as missions and events that depict the hardships that fell upon Nagaur and historically led to the country's annexation?

Would be awesome if bahmanis got a disaster to break up into the 3 deccan sultanates, vijayangar has tonnes of seperatist events to help knock it out, so both could get their historical outcomes faster
Agreed. Deccan Sultanates and Vijayanagar successor-states don't appear in the game enough, and having the blobs in Southern India actually able to collapse would help to make the region more dynamic.
 
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Battlex

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In general, Indian nations that are using the generic North/South Indian mission tree would benefit from their mission tree getting a similar treatment to the upcoming Malay nations' mission trees. While all Malay nations have an extensive mission tree with 15 shared missions, the remaining two branches are devoted to missions unique to each nation, giving Malacca, Champa, Aceh, Brunei, Sunda, Tidore/Ternate & Bali different things to strive for, even if the majority of their mission-tree is the same for all of them.

Another way to make India more interesting would be to add formable countries to the region, thus giving some of the minor nations more interesting things to strive for. Unfortunately, I have no idea which tags would be suitable for being suitable as formable or reformable, since I'm not really well-versed in Indian history.



Wouldn't it then make sense to give Jaunpur a short mission-tree that encourages them to form Delhi, as well as missions and events that depict the hardships that fell upon Nagaur and historically led to the country's annexation?


Agreed. Deccan Sultanates and Vijayanagar successor-states don't appear in the game enough, and having the blobs in Southern India actually able to collapse would help to make the region more dynamic.
It's less about dynamism and more about Europeans actually colonising, if vaginacar has been there since 1444, it's going to have so many ducats stacked up, and Europeans will never be able to expand from their initial chartered land due to how naval attrition works on troops now, whereas if balkanised they can more easily expand. India being colonised more often would also make gameplay more dynamic for Indian players as you can be Napoleon's BFF to help expel the British just like in history.

I don't think jaunpur needs a mission tree to expand into dehli, as they already have one of the doab's, when forming mughals/dehli requires dehli and a doab, as well as Jaunpur having cores in dehli so will naturally expand towards it, and has the generic North India mission tree, pushing it to reforming dehli iirc
 

Battlex

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If thats the case than the devs failed miserably at that. I tend to play quite a lot in and around India and never once have I seen Jaunpur eat Dehli and then become Delhi. If fact, I've never seen Jaunpur die, they just expand a bit and then stagnate forever even though they often field one of or the largest army in the continent. I've also never seen anyone forming Delhi aside from their vassal who is railroaded to become Dehli if they with their first war.

What you said explains why Jaunpur doesn't have a mission tree. It always struck me as odd that they were the only Indian major to have no missions whatsoever. Still, they are just plain boring (no mission, very few events, ok but otherwise forgettable ideas, I guess they are the Denmark of India).
Biggest reason to give jaunpur an update along with rest of India, is that their + religious unity idea is useless now we have estate privleiges. But unsure what to put in place, unrest reduction either feels useless or OP.

Interesting you've never seen jaunpur reform into dehli, as whenever I played Bengal, you'd get jaunpur take dehli, whilst sirhind would take the rest. Jaunpur probably doesn't expand much because you've got Bengal to the east, pointless OPMs to the north with a 100 year RoI probably, and then malwa to the south, so if they don't get the starting alliances right they're locked out.

But great to see you again Earl Konrad, been a while
 
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EarlKonrad

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Biggest reason to give jaunpur an update along with rest of India, is that their + religious unity idea is useless now we have estate privleiges. But unsure what to put in place, unrest reduction either feels useless or OP.

Interesting you've never seen jaunpur reform into dehli, as whenever I played Bengal, you'd get jaunpur take dehli, whilst sirhind would take the rest. Jaunpur probably doesn't expand much because you've got Bengal to the east, pointless OPMs to the north with a 100 year RoI probably, and then malwa to the south, so if they don't get the starting alliances right they're locked out.

But great to see you again Earl Konrad, been a while

In my experience Jaunpur gets sandwiched between Delhi/Timurids, Bengal and whoever wins the war on their southern border. Then they ally one, or more, of these nations making themselves unable to expand simply because they have no route for expansion nor claims (aside from Delhi).

Has been a while, yes. Got burned out after getting Avar Khanate (Mams backstabbing, Russia breaking our 50+ year long alliance and Timurids just pretending to be my friend).
 

Battlex

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In my experience Jaunpur gets sandwiched between Delhi/Timurids, Bengal and whoever wins the war on their southern border. Then they ally one, or more, of these nations making themselves unable to expand simply because they have no route for expansion nor claims (aside from Delhi).

Has been a while, yes. Got burned out after getting Avar Khanate (Mams backstabbing, Russia breaking our 50+ year long alliance and Timurids just pretending to be my friend).
I've seen AI mughals once, timurids just don't expand through hindu kush in my games even if half the time timurids do survive to 1700. If Orissa loses the vassals then Bengal always goes strong in my game. Bengal is probably one of the strongest regional powers atm, as Ming implodes far more and so capturing those southern Chinese provinces for the permanent morale boost is easier

Yeh also burn out myself after a bahmanis game, but also wanting to finish off ck2 before ck3 came out, but probably won't stick around on ck3 cuz of how lackluster it is
 
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Dragonquack

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It's less about dynamism and more about Europeans actually colonising, if vaginacar has been there since 1444, it's going to have so many ducats stacked up, and Europeans will never be able to expand from their initial chartered land due to how naval attrition works on troops now, whereas if balkanised they can more easily expand. India being colonised more often would also make gameplay more dynamic for Indian players as you can be Napoleon's BFF to help expel the British just like in history.

I don't think jaunpur needs a mission tree to expand into dehli, as they already have one of the doab's, when forming mughals/dehli requires dehli and a doab, as well as Jaunpur having cores in dehli so will naturally expand towards it, and has the generic North India mission tree, pushing it to reforming dehli iirc
While I agree the AI for colonizing Asia could be better, remember that the British got extremely lucky when conquering India, as the EIC had arrived when the region was largely divided and decentralized (The Maratha Confederacy was much more decentralized than the Mughals were). If the Mughals had still remained a major power, or if the Marathas would have had a centralized empire rather than an administrative confederacy, it would have been much harder for the EIC to take all of India.

The game also doesn’t represent trade companies well, since many of the larger ones had their own private armies comprised of men recruited from conquered territories, the British EIC drafted many Indian soldiers, called Sepoys, to help take the rest of India.
 

Battlex

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While I agree the AI for colonizing Asia could be better, remember that the British got extremely lucky when conquering India, as the EIC had arrived when the region was largely divided and decentralized (The Maratha Confederacy was much more decentralized than the Mughals were). If the Mughals had still remained a major power, or if the Marathas would have had a centralized empire rather than an administrative confederacy, it would have been much harder for the EIC to take all of India.

The game also doesn’t represent trade companies well, since many of the larger ones had their own private armies comprised of men recruited from conquered territories, the British EIC drafted many Indian soldiers, called Sepoys, to help take the rest of India.
Yes there was luck to it, and funnily enough it's the French who are to blame for the militirasation of the trade companies. But the bigger issue is eu4 can't model the collapse of empires properly, the nawabs didn't declare independence wars but just became more and more independent. Dharma just giving the mughals gov reforms which boosted number of states (later gov. capacity) rather than relationship slots didn't help either.

Sepoys really should've been added in Rule Brittania as a special troop like Janissaries and Cossacks. But they could be added now as special merc companies, like how you're supposed to use native mercs when conquering Mesoamerica as Spain.
 
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Dragonquack

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Yes there was luck to it, and funnily enough it's the French who are to blame for the militirasation of the trade companies. But the bigger issue is eu4 can't model the collapse of empires properly, the nawabs didn't declare independence wars but just became more and more independent. Dharma just giving the mughals gov reforms which boosted number of states (later gov. capacity) rather than relationship slots didn't help either.

Sepoys really should've been added in Rule Brittania as a special troop like Janissaries and Cossacks. But they could be added now as special merc companies, like how you're supposed to use native mercs when conquering Mesoamerica as Spain.
I believe there are already Merc companies in India for this?
 

Dragonquack

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I'd say Punjab, Nepal, Jaunpur, Sindh, Multan, Mysore, Maratha and Lanka would all be good candidates for new mission trees.
Jaunpur is meant to reform into Delhi, I do agree for Sindh and Marathas. The rest of India needs something like the Malay countries are getting for SEA, where the missions are generic (but unique to that region) except for one branch
 
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