More formable nations in AOW

[Phalanx300]

Belgium is not really fitting for the time period. Spanish influences caused the divide of northern Low Countries and the Southern Low Countries. Extend the Netherlands to incorporate the other Low Countries in places where it can form. I'm pretty sure the founders of the 80 years war intended to liberate all of the Low Countries.

 

[Kansai-kun]

Italy, Germany, Malaya, Hindustan, Scandinavia. These formable nations represent a union of their culture groups.

Malaya isn't a cultural union, it's just a formable country.

 

[VolitionNewlove]

What we'd actually need are four different formable nations for India as Hindustan is a cultural union, but only for the Hindustani group. There should also be cultural unions for the Dravidian, Eastern Aryan and Western Aryan groups.

I don't really think there needs to be a cultural union for each culture group, of course. Creating tags purely for the sake of adding in cultural unions might be a little arbitrary.

Personally, of course, while I'm on this topic, I'd like to see the Mughals tag replaced with Hindustan (with Hindustan gaining the Mughals' flag.) Considering that the Mughals at several points in history had enough territory to enact the decision to "form Hindustan" (to the point in which the game blocks the Mughals specifically from forming Hindustan,) the fact that "Hindustan" to refer to a nation (rather than a geographical term) was really only done in the case of Gurkaniyan/Mughal Empire, the fact that there's virtually no chance that both realms will form at the same time, as well as the problem (definitely not unique to this tag) that comes from a government switch.

 

[Golladan]

Malaya isn't a cultural union, it's just a formable country.

Um no. Malaya is a culture group union of the Malay culture group.

 

[Kansai-kun]

Um no. Malaya is a culture group union of the Malay culture group.

Did they change that at some point? Last time I played Malaya, they were a normal country.

 

[Lapsed Pacifist]

Okay gentlemen, deep and dramatic discussions in this thread have created huge mess so again I decided to list all plausible debated ideas for formable nations.
-snip-
OK. Now you can debate on these

Out of all of these the only realistic ones I can think of are:

-The *Insert dynasty name here* Caliphate (if you own over 50% of Muslim provinces including Mecca, Medina and Jerusalem)
-Yuan (because Mongolia=Northern Yuan)
-United Kingdom (because it existed in the timeframe)
-Vietnam
-Khmer Empire
-Australia (might be too late in the game to bother with though)
-Al-Andalus

I'd rather they avoid made up countries altogether.

 

[Me_]

Did they change that at some point? Last time I played Malaya, they were a normal country.

Possibly. Regardless, they are indeed a cultural group union of Malay cultures.

 

[Golladan]

Did they change that at some point? Last time I played Malaya, they were a normal country.

1.6 according to the patch notes.

 

[Kansai-kun]

Out of all of these the only realistic ones I can think of are:
-United Kingdom (because it existed in the timeframe)

Isn't Great Britain supposed to be the UK?

 

[Lapsed Pacifist]

Isn't Great Britain supposed to be the UK?

'Great Britain' was formed in 1701 when England united with Scotland, the 'United Kingdom' was formed in 1800 when Ireland was officially incorporated.

 

[Kansai-kun]

'Great Britain' was formed in 1701 when England united with Scotland, the 'United Kingdom' was formed in 1800 when Ireland was officially incorporated.

You get claims on Ireland by forming Great Britain. Do we really need another tag to represent "basically" the same country?

 

[AlphaSonic]

Not to mention the fact that already in game BOTH SARDINIA-PIEMONT AND ITALY REQUIRE HAVING LOMBARDIA 'which is kinda redundant'![/B]

For forming Sardinia-Piedmont you only need the provices of Sardinia and Piedmont and be Savoy or Sardinia.

 

[Atilla 'The Hun']

Okay gentlemen, deep and dramatic discussions in this thread have created huge mess so again I decided to list all plausible debated ideas for formable nations.

Unofficial rules for Paradox - made Formable Nations in EU4 1.7.3:
- we can already form countries which historically appeared many decades after 1821
- we can already form countries which are not 100% realistic, such as formable Italy with Napoleonic flag and non-Napoleonic borders
- we can already form overlapping countries: Sardinia-Piedmont vs Italy
- we can already form countries which have never existed in the exact form shown in EU4: Hindustan, Malaya, Jerusalem, Holy Roman Empire
- we can already form countries which have extremely easy requirements - Bukhara, Kurland
- we can already form 'unrealistically stable cultural unions' - Scandinavia (this is my answer on the critic of concept of Yugoslavia)

I guess neither Paradox nor majority of player cry over these minor (?) inaccuracies

Thus I am not sure if attacking new ideas for Formable Nations based on these points is validate.

Other Unofficial Rules for Already Existing Formable Nations:
- formable countries can't be completely fantasy/ahistorical/unrealistic, they need to have either historical background or cultural background (Malaya, Hindustan, HRE) - I mean, they could appear in this period
- formable countries shouldn't be based on short - living ephemerical states (example: United States of Belgium from 1790, existing 325 days) - they should be based on something meaningful
- they shouldn't be extremely anachronic such as, for example, Sparta ( ) or Carthago - the most anachronic Formable Country in EU4 is currently Jerusalem but it could arguably appear again in EU4 period if some lunatic Catholic country resurrected Crusades.
- they need to provide flavor and fun to the game!


Sooo I have written below the most plausible/least criticized (or controversial) suggestions from this entire thread which arguably fit into the Ten Rules of Formable Nations.

1) Belgium
2) Austria - Hungary - controversial as hell
3) Restored Mongol Empire - hey, we can already restore Byzantine Empire right?
4) Arabia
5) The Caliphate - the result of Unify Islam decision?
6) Restored Hungarian Kingdom - possible only for Transylvania (it tried to restore Hungary for long time after it has been annihilated). Hungarian NIs.
7) Anglo - French Union - as the result of clear victory in Hundred Years War?
8) Restored Majapahit Empire - alternatively 'Indonesia' or 'Nusantara', overlapping with Malaya in the same way Italy overlap with Sardinia-Piedmont. Unique National Ideas (Majapahit in 1444 doesn't have them)
9) Kingdom of the Two Sicilies - controversial as hell
10)Yuan - the result of Mongolian hordes conquering China
11) United Kingdom - England, Wales, Scotland and Ireland as opposed to Great Britain (England, Wales, Scotland)
12) Vietnam - Dai Viet + Champa + Prey Nokor province of Khmer -> it is what happened historically in this period.
13) Durrani Empire - Empire formable by Afghanistan: essentially Afghanistan+ Pakistan + Nishapur. Unique NIs.
14) Great Mandala - modern: Burma, Thailand, Laos, Cambodia, Vietnam -> of course this one is ahistorical but similarly to Hindustan (?) and Malaya. Unique National Ideas.
15) Restored Khmer Empire - Khmer + Champa + Laos + Thailand. Unique NIs.
16) Maghreb - Morocco + Algier + Tunisia; based on historical empires of Almoravids/Moors and common Berber culture. Berber National Ideas.
17) Kurdistan - possible to do in AOW map with expanded Caucasus, would require Curdish cultural tag, probably possible to form only by rebellion. Unique National Ideas.
18) Axum Empire - Ethiopia + Adal + Eritrea. Possible to form by Ethiopia and has its ideas.
19) Somalia - Ajuraan + Adal. Unique National Ideas.
20) Missisipi - Native American Empire constisting of provinces of 9 tribes close to Missisipi River: Cree, Chocksaw, Cherokee, Osage, Caddo, Pawnee, Susquehannock, Miami. Capital in the legendary city of Cahokia.
21) Turkey - possible to form by Beyliks if Ottoman Empire falls (???) or if Ottoman Empire loses Constantinople (???)
22) Siam - Late game formable for Thai countries, insta-change to Absolute Monarchy and bonus towards Western tech. National Ideas of Ayyuthaia
23) Myanmar - cultural union of six AOW Burmese states. Has to be called Myanmar - Burma is purely European term Has unique National Ideas
24) Srivijaya - Must have the Srivijaya dynasty in power (only Malacca still has this in 1444), requires Sumatra, Peninsular Malaysia and Western Java. Overlapping with Malaya and Majapahit Empire. Buddhist conversion.
25) Punjab - formable by countries with Panjabi culture.
26) Yugoslavia - Croatia, Bosnia, Serbia, Montenegro. Not less plausible than Hindustan. If formed by Serbia carries uses Serbian NIs, in other case has unique National Ideas.
27) Australia - colonial state
28) Philippines - colonial state, unique National Ideas
29) Boers - colonial state, unique National Ideas
30) California - colonial state
31) Kingdom of Leon - if Castille goes wrong
32) Al - Andalus - if Castille goes EXTREMELY wrong Possible to form by Granada, Fez, Morocco or Algiers, switches on Granada NIs.
33) Samarkanda - ahistorical but not impossible to form in this historical period. Unique National Ideas (super trade).



OK. Now you can debate on these

+1

 

[Sol717]

Okay gentlemen, deep and dramatic discussions in this thread have created huge mess so again I decided to list all plausible debated ideas for formable nations.

Unofficial rules for Paradox - made Formable Nations in EU4 1.7.3:
- we can already form countries which historically appeared many decades after 1821
- we can already form countries which are not 100% realistic, such as formable Italy with Napoleonic flag and non-Napoleonic borders
- we can already form overlapping countries: Sardinia-Piedmont vs Italy
- we can already form countries which have never existed in the exact form shown in EU4: Hindustan, Malaya, Jerusalem, Holy Roman Empire
- we can already form countries which have extremely easy requirements - Bukhara, Kurland
- we can already form 'unrealistically stable cultural unions' - Scandinavia (this is my answer on the critic of concept of Yugoslavia)

I guess neither Paradox nor majority of player cry over these minor (?) inaccuracies

Thus I am not sure if attacking new ideas for Formable Nations based on these points is validate.

Other Unofficial Rules for Already Existing Formable Nations:
- formable countries can't be completely fantasy/ahistorical/unrealistic, they need to have either historical background or cultural background (Malaya, Hindustan, HRE) - I mean, they could appear in this period
- formable countries shouldn't be based on short - living ephemerical states (example: United States of Belgium from 1790, existing 325 days) - they should be based on something meaningful
- they shouldn't be extremely anachronic such as, for example, Sparta ( ) or Carthago - the most anachronic Formable Country in EU4 is currently Jerusalem but it could arguably appear again in EU4 period if some lunatic Catholic country resurrected Crusades.
- they need to provide flavor and fun to the game!


Sooo I have written below the most plausible/least criticized (or controversial) suggestions from this entire thread which arguably fit into the Ten Rules of Formable Nations.

1) Belgium
2) Austria - Hungary - controversial as hell
3) Restored Mongol Empire - hey, we can already restore Byzantine Empire right?
4) Arabia
5) The Caliphate - the result of Unify Islam decision?
6) Restored Hungarian Kingdom - possible only for Transylvania (it tried to restore Hungary for long time after it has been annihilated). Hungarian NIs.
7) Anglo - French Union - as the result of clear victory in Hundred Years War?
8) Restored Majapahit Empire - alternatively 'Indonesia' or 'Nusantara', overlapping with Malaya in the same way Italy overlap with Sardinia-Piedmont. Unique National Ideas (Majapahit in 1444 doesn't have them)
9) Kingdom of the Two Sicilies - controversial as hell
10)Yuan - the result of Mongolian hordes conquering China
11) United Kingdom - England, Wales, Scotland and Ireland as opposed to Great Britain (England, Wales, Scotland)
12) Vietnam - Dai Viet + Champa + Prey Nokor province of Khmer -> it is what happened historically in this period.
13) Durrani Empire - Empire formable by Afghanistan: essentially Afghanistan+ Pakistan + Nishapur. Unique NIs.
14) Great Mandala - modern: Burma, Thailand, Laos, Cambodia, Vietnam -> of course this one is ahistorical but similarly to Hindustan (?) and Malaya. Unique National Ideas.
15) Restored Khmer Empire - Khmer + Champa + Laos + Thailand. Unique NIs.
16) Maghreb - Morocco + Algier + Tunisia; based on historical empires of Almoravids/Moors and common Berber culture. Berber National Ideas.
17) Kurdistan - possible to do in AOW map with expanded Caucasus, would require Curdish cultural tag, probably possible to form only by rebellion. Unique National Ideas.
18) Axum Empire - Ethiopia + Adal + Eritrea. Possible to form by Ethiopia and has its ideas.
19) Somalia - Ajuraan + Adal. Unique National Ideas.
20) Missisipi - Native American Empire constisting of provinces of 9 tribes close to Missisipi River: Cree, Chocksaw, Cherokee, Osage, Caddo, Pawnee, Susquehannock, Miami. Capital in the legendary city of Cahokia.
21) Turkey - possible to form by Beyliks if Ottoman Empire falls (???) or if Ottoman Empire loses Constantinople (???)
22) Siam - Late game formable for Thai countries, insta-change to Absolute Monarchy and bonus towards Western tech. National Ideas of Ayyuthaia
23) Myanmar - cultural union of six AOW Burmese states. Has to be called Myanmar - Burma is purely European term Has unique National Ideas
24) Srivijaya - Must have the Srivijaya dynasty in power (only Malacca still has this in 1444), requires Sumatra, Peninsular Malaysia and Western Java. Overlapping with Malaya and Majapahit Empire. Buddhist conversion.
25) Punjab - formable by countries with Panjabi culture.
26) Yugoslavia - Croatia, Bosnia, Serbia, Montenegro. Not less plausible than Hindustan. If formed by Serbia carries uses Serbian NIs, in other case has unique National Ideas.
27) Australia - colonial state
28) Philippines - colonial state, unique National Ideas
29) Boers - colonial state, unique National Ideas
30) California - colonial state
31) Kingdom of Leon - if Castille goes wrong
32) Al - Andalus - if Castille goes EXTREMELY wrong Possible to form by Granada, Fez, Morocco or Algiers, switches on Granada NIs.
33) Samarkanda - ahistorical but not impossible to form in this historical period. Unique National Ideas (super trade).



OK. Now you can debate on these

Idea with Samarkand was because there was no historical tags in this region.

Axum is questionable and unlikely - works better as cores in northern Ethiopia than a formable.

Burma is better than Myanmar - it is not totally European and Germany is not "Deutschland"

Turkey tag should be for Ottomans 1453+ - a OTT tag is needed.

Some more conventional tags: (as opposed to my ideas for releasable cores) for AoW

Ghana Empire - united Magsharen + Djenne + Massina

Hausa - Hausa states + Nupe

Kanem - make Kanem-Bornu Bornu - Kanem + Yao

 

[Demetrios]

Belgium is not really fitting for the time period. Spanish influences caused the divide of northern Low Countries and the Southern Low Countries. Extend the Netherlands to incorporate the other Low Countries in places where it can form. I'm pretty sure the founders of the 80 years war intended to liberate all of the Low Countries.

As Belgium was the name the rebels in the Austrian Netherlands used for their new state in 1789 - 1790, it's perfectly within the time period.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_of_Belgium

 

[Krajzen]

I don't know anything about Samarkanda in this period, I put it here because someone supported its inclusion and didn't meet with harsh criticism (also sounds nice)

 

[TurtleShroom]

Has someone suggested formable empires yet ? I mean after getting certain amount of provinces / wealth / military power you could enact a decision to become an empire. It would change your tag and add and "empire" to it and maybe change your government form and add some bonuses / negative effects. Would be pretty cool and not too difficult to add (?).

There used to be an "Adopt Imperial Administration" Decision. It was literally one of my favorite parts of the game, but it was removed! :sad:

 

[Manbearpig]

As others have said, we need many more formable nations for the different culture groups, additionally, we definitely need formable nations in many of the areas to be fleshed out. West Africa definitely needs one, if not more, as does East Africa, one for the Sunni/Animist Tribes, and one for the Christian/Animist Kingdoms/Tribes. North Africa definitely needs one, and the only reason I don't reject Carthage as being formable for Tunis is because there is already an achievement attached to it, but perhaps Algiers or Al-Andalus could be their union. SE Asia already has Malaya, but perhaps it could get one that could only be formed by Eastern religion while Malaya only by Muslim religion. The natives in North America have long needed some sort of formable nation, and the Siberians certainly need some sort of unique mechanics, with there being so few of them.

 

[solidprice]

Okay gentlemen, deep and dramatic discussions in this thread have created huge mess so again I decided to list all plausible debated ideas for formable nations.

Unofficial rules for Paradox - made Formable Nations in EU4 1.7.3:
- we can already form countries which historically appeared many decades after 1821
- we can already form countries which are not 100% realistic, such as formable Italy with Napoleonic flag and non-Napoleonic borders
- we can already form overlapping countries: Sardinia-Piedmont vs Italy
- we can already form countries which have never existed in the exact form shown in EU4: Hindustan, Malaya, Jerusalem, Holy Roman Empire
- we can already form countries which have extremely easy requirements - Bukhara, Kurland
- we can already form 'unrealistically stable cultural unions' - Scandinavia (this is my answer on the critic of concept of Yugoslavia)

I guess neither Paradox nor majority of player cry over these minor (?) inaccuracies

Thus I am not sure if attacking new ideas for Formable Nations based on these points is validate.

Other Unofficial Rules for Already Existing Formable Nations:
- formable countries can't be completely fantasy/ahistorical/unrealistic, they need to have either historical background or cultural background (Malaya, Hindustan, HRE) - I mean, they could appear in this period
- formable countries shouldn't be based on short - living ephemerical states (example: - they should be based on something meaningful
- they shouldn't be extremely anachronic such as, for example, Sparta ( ) or Carthago - the most anachronic Formable Country in EU4 is currently Jerusalem but it could arguably appear again in EU4 period if some lunatic Catholic country resurrected Crusades.
- they need to provide flavor and fun to the game!


Sooo I have written below the most plausible/least criticized (or controversial) suggestions from this entire thread which arguably fit into the Ten Rules of Formable Nations.

1) Belgium
2) Austria - Hungary - controversial as hell
3) Restored Mongol Empire - hey, we can already restore Byzantine Empire right?
4) Arabia
5) The Caliphate - the result of Unify Islam decision?
6) Restored Hungarian Kingdom - possible only for Transylvania (it tried to restore Hungary for long time after it has been annihilated). Hungarian NIs.
7) Anglo - French Union - as the result of clear victory in Hundred Years War?
8) Restored Majapahit Empire - alternatively 'Indonesia' or 'Nusantara', overlapping with Malaya in the same way Italy overlap with Sardinia-Piedmont. Unique National Ideas (Majapahit in 1444 doesn't have them)
9) Kingdom of the Two Sicilies - controversial as hell
10)Yuan - the result of Mongolian hordes conquering China
11) United Kingdom - England, Wales, Scotland and Ireland as opposed to Great Britain (England, Wales, Scotland)
12) Vietnam - Dai Viet + Champa + Prey Nokor province of Khmer -> it is what happened historically in this period.
13) Durrani Empire - Empire formable by Afghanistan: essentially Afghanistan+ Pakistan + Nishapur. Unique NIs.
14) Great Mandala - modern: Burma, Thailand, Laos, Cambodia, Vietnam -> of course this one is ahistorical but similarly to Hindustan (?) and Malaya. Unique National Ideas.
15) Restored Khmer Empire - Khmer + Champa + Laos + Thailand. Unique NIs.
16) Maghreb - Morocco + Algier + Tunisia; based on historical empires of Almoravids/Moors and common Berber culture. Berber National Ideas.
17) Kurdistan - possible to do in AOW map with expanded Caucasus, would require Curdish cultural tag, probably possible to form only by rebellion. Unique National Ideas.
18) Axum Empire - Ethiopia + Adal + Eritrea. Possible to form by Ethiopia and has its ideas.
19) Somalia - Ajuraan + Adal. Unique National Ideas.
20) Missisipi - Native American Empire constisting of provinces of 9 tribes close to Missisipi River: Cree, Chocksaw, Cherokee, Osage, Caddo, Pawnee, Susquehannock, Miami. Capital in the legendary city of Cahokia.
21) Turkey - possible to form by Beyliks if Ottoman Empire falls (???) or if Ottoman Empire loses Constantinople (???)
22) Siam - Late game formable for Thai countries, insta-change to Absolute Monarchy and bonus towards Western tech. National Ideas of Ayyuthaia
23) Myanmar - cultural union of six AOW Burmese states. Has to be called Myanmar - Burma is purely European term Has unique National Ideas
24) Srivijaya - Must have the Srivijaya dynasty in power (only Malacca still has this in 1444), requires Sumatra, Peninsular Malaysia and Western Java. Overlapping with Malaya and Majapahit Empire. Buddhist conversion.
25) Punjab - formable by countries with Panjabi culture.
26) Yugoslavia - Croatia, Bosnia, Serbia, Montenegro. Not less plausible than Hindustan. If formed by Serbia carries uses Serbian NIs, in other case has unique National Ideas.
27) Australia - colonial state
28) Philippines - colonial state, unique National Ideas
29) Boers - colonial state, unique National Ideas
30) California - colonial state
31) Kingdom of Leon - if Castille goes wrong
32) Al - Andalus - if Castille goes EXTREMELY wrong Possible to form by Granada, Fez, Morocco or Algiers, switches on Granada NIs.
33) Samarkanda - ahistorical but not impossible to form in this historical period. Unique National Ideas (super trade).



OK. Now you can debate on these

my answer:

 

[moscal]

Please... XYZ+Empire? If I want created eg. Ceylon Empire this I'll raise a lot of ground and changing government for the Empire. Empire is the level of the uber-kingdom, "king of kings", etc.

I really do not like the idea of adding everything the name "XYZ Empire".