Navarra should form Basqia by having Basque provinces. Aragon could turn into Catalonia by event, as well as Ottomans into Turkey or Ming/Qing into China. Such events would be something like "dynastic collapse" or something but it forces tagchange
More formable nations in AOW
- Thread starter Atilla 'The Hun'
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Actually belgium never was a fabricated state, a geographical union of provinces with different cultures and language yes, but that doesn't mean it was exempt from nationalist sentiment.
The whole distinction between flemish/wallonian and dutch cultures is stupid actually, since culture in eu4 represents the upper and middle classes the major part of the low countries should be in the french culture group, at least during the game's timeframe there was nearly no difference culture wise between artois and ghent or brussels. The northern parts of the low countries like geldre frisia and utrecht excepted of course.
The whole distinction between flemish/wallonian and dutch cultures is stupid actually, since culture in eu4 represents the upper and middle classes the major part of the low countries should be in the french culture group, at least during the game's timeframe there was nearly no difference culture wise between artois and ghent or brussels. The northern parts of the low countries like geldre frisia and utrecht excepted of course.
I personally think that the formable nation of Scandinavia should be removed. Seriously.
The AI always form it, and it ends up creating some pretty weird results. Like Denmark creating Scandinavia, and then Sweden breaking free via. Swedish rebels.
Other than that - It's just completely ahistorical, there was no talk of Scandinavian Unity until the industrial era, and the idea almost completely died out in 1864.
But it would be nice to see Luxembourg.
The AI always form it, and it ends up creating some pretty weird results. Like Denmark creating Scandinavia, and then Sweden breaking free via. Swedish rebels.
Other than that - It's just completely ahistorical, there was no talk of Scandinavian Unity until the industrial era, and the idea almost completely died out in 1864.
But it would be nice to see Luxembourg.
Oh you mean: "Rūm was considered to be “Turkey” by its contemporaries."
More so: Firman of Karamanoğlu Mehmet Bey stated: "from this day forward, in the council, in the dervish lodge, in the court, in the assembly, in the square, no language but Turkish should be spoken. Thus Mehmed Bey declared Turkish language as the official language of the state. Not hard to imagine that they might have changed into Turkey further on the road, we are playing a game with a lot of "what if"
Exactly!
Oh you mean: "Rūm was considered to be “Turkey” by its contemporaries."
More so: Firman of Karamanoğlu Mehmet Bey stated: "from this day forward, in the council, in the dervish lodge, in the court, in the assembly, in the square, no language but Turkish should be spoken. Thus Mehmed Bey declared Turkish language as the official language of the state. Not hard to imagine that they might have changed into Turkey further on the road, we are playing a game with a lot of "what if"
Well, the Ottomans did turn into Turkey, that's not a what if.
Turkey as a formable nation for non-Ottoman Beyliks as a replacement for the Ottomans makes no sense. If what if Super-Ramazan can form what-if Turkey than the Ottomans should be able to do so as well. Being a westernised Republic should probably be the requirement for both.
I am from Poland, I know the history of Commonwealth quite well and if I really wanted to cry over it I could find coutless problems of video game's depiciton of this sociopolitical entity - let's just begin from the fact that full name of this entity in English was 'Polish - Lithuanian Commonwealth' and even that wasn't perfect translation of 'Rzeczpospolita Obojga Narodów'. But I have a magical ability of don't caring when it's unnecessary
According to Wikipedia, Rzeczpospolita Obojga Narodów is a 20th century term rather than a contemporary one. "The Commonwealth" seems to be a perfectly acceptable contemporary name, even if it wasn't the official one, which would probable be too long as a tag name.
The previous Kingdoms of Germany and Italy were about as similar to the modern nation states as the England of Aethelstan to the United Kingdom. But I suppose he claimed lordship over the Scots, so that makes Great Britain pointless to have in game as it already exists, right?
Yes for real, breaking free of Aragon and retaking Sicily would be no harder/easier than most other nation formation requirements.
An extra tag will absolutely not cause any noticeable performance impact, no idea how you could think that. And just for the sake of it? Country formations are quite simply a goal to achieve, an small extra reward for doing something specific. I've already pointed out that it'd be no easier than waiting for an event to pop as Castile, taking out Scotland and England, or grabbing a little land and integrating your unions as Denmark.
That's basically exactly what I'm in arguing for here. So your point of contention is over it being one or Two Sicilies?
I won't bother replying to your other lazy arguments such as "do it yourself" and how much time it takes to implement. It's clear neither of us will be convinced either way, and honestly I don't see Paradox ever implementing something along the lines of The Kingdom of the Two Sicilies anyway, so I'll back out of the thread now.
Could be done
Wasn't really a choice based on prestige, more on survival
does show up around the napoleonic era or shortly after, so possible.
ehhhhh, while it gives something for nations to work towards, it would all just have horde ideas
*waves crucifix*
Rome is something you can form in CK2 and Vic2, there is absolutely no need to cram rome into every GSG
*crucifix waving intensifies*
Considering Carthage was burnt down before christ and vandals and byzantines happened, not really something I'd like to see
I like this as an alternative to the Ottomans, provided it's not just the Ottomans with a different name.
All Chinese nations use dynastic names (Ming, Zhou, Qing, etc.), since that was most of the time how China worked. A non-imperial China would be called China but good luck finding a way to make Ming or a successor state a republic.
Could work, but sort of filled by Nejd and Hedjaz.
Some of them do, others are Rome.
Of course, with the whole client states mechanic nothing is preventing you from creating these yourself and tag-switching, unless ironman.
Well, Sardinia-Piedmont and Italy collide in the similar way Malaya and Nusantara/Indonesia would
Malaya - possible to form by Muslim Malayan countries, capital in <lol my historical knowledge here is limited - let's just say Malacca>
Nusantara - possible to form only by Majapahit as de facto Restoring Majapahit Empire, capital in Java, Hindu Empire, different culutre/NIs/events/stuff
why not? historically two biggest empires here were
1) Javanese Majapahit -> Hinduism
2) Sumatran Srivivaya -> Buddhism
3) Malayan Brunei -> Islam
Two formable empires in this area wouldn't be that ahistorical
EU4 end date - 1821
Yugoslavia - 1918
Federal Republic of Central America - 1823
Greece - 1829
Italy - 1861
Romania - 1866
Germany - 1871
Ireland - 1922
Hindustan - 1947
Malaysia - 1948
Jerusalem - never after medieval age
Quebec - never as independent post-colonial state
Lousiana - never as independent post-colonial state
STOP RIGHT THERE CRIMINAL SCUMEU4 end date - 1821
Yugoslavia - 1918
Federal Republic of Central America - 1823
Greece - 1829
Italy - 1861
Romania - 1866
Germany - 1871
Ireland - 1922
Hindustan - 1947
Malaysia - 1948
Jerusalem - never after medieval age
Quebec - never as independent post-colonial state
Lousiana - never as independent post-colonial state
Italy's EUIV flag heavily implies it's Napoleonic Italy, which did exist during this time.
Quebec is based on the Republic of Lower Canada (1837)
Malaya, not Malaysia!
You know that Majapahit's Nusantara cover both Srivijaya and Brunei (and beyond) territory right?Well, Sardinia-Piedmont and Italy collide in the similar way Malaya and Nusantara/Indonesia would
Malaya - possible to form by Muslim Malayan countries, capital in <lol my historical knowledge here is limited - let's just say Malacca>
Nusantara - possible to form only by Majapahit as de facto Restoring Majapahit Empire, capital in Java, Hindu Empire, different culutre/NIs/events/stuff
why not? historically two biggest empires here were
1) Javanese Majapahit -> Hinduism
2) Sumatran Srivivaya -> Buddhism
3) Malayan Brunei -> Islam
Two formable empires in this area wouldn't be that ahistorical
So if we go with Majapahit as standard (because Nusantara is Majapahit or Java term), then Malaya will be required to form Nusantara which kinda redundant...
Unless you mean Indonesia when you say Nusantara, then I need to clarify that Indonesia =/= Nusantara...
Indonesia border is based on Dutch East Indies not on Nusantara...
Nusantara is way bigger than Indonesia...
Well, Sardinia-Piedmont and Italy collide in the similar way Malaya and Nusantara/Indonesia would
Malaya - possible to form by Muslim Malayan countries, capital in <lol my historical knowledge here is limited - let's just say Malacca>
Nusantara - possible to form only by Majapahit as de facto Restoring Majapahit Empire, capital in Java, Hindu Empire, different culutre/NIs/events/stuff
why not? historically two biggest empires here were
1) Javanese Majapahit -> Hinduism
2) Sumatran Srivivaya -> Buddhism
3) Malayan Brunei -> Islam
Two formable empires in this area wouldn't be that ahistorical
I like this idea!
A religious war over Indonesia!
lol I have never noticed that
...on the other hand: forming Italian Nation in EU4 requires having Florence, Rome and Siena while Napoleonic Italy didn't have these territories so I guess Paradox is way more liberal than you when making formable countries
...quite possible but this still existed 16 years after ending date of EU4 and that didn't forbid Paradox from adding independent Quebec to the game so...
I know. I said '1948' (independence of Malaysia) because I was merciful - 'Malaya' from EU4 never existed historically so my point is proved even more
1) Basically I am talking about 'restoring Majapahit Empire' in the archipelago
2) However many people think formable countries shouldn't be called simply 'Country Name + Empire' so I decided to call this formable empire 'Indonesia'
3) Then other people are annoyed because Indonesia is European term
4) Thus I propose name 'Nusantara' which is general indigenous term describing the archipelago and sounds epic
5) ???
6)
Not to mention the fact that already in game BOTH SARDINIA-PIEMONT AND ITALY REQUIRE HAVING LOMBARDIA 'which is kinda redundant'!
Maybe, it could also change them to a republic when forming. It would make much more sense than Ramazan republic.
Okay gentlemen, deep and dramatic discussions in this thread have created huge mess so again I decided to list all plausible debated ideas for formable nations.
Unofficial rules for Paradox - made Formable Nations in EU4 1.7.3:
- we can already form countries which historically appeared many decades after 1821
- we can already form countries which are not 100% realistic, such as formable Italy with Napoleonic flag and non-Napoleonic borders
- we can already form overlapping countries: Sardinia-Piedmont vs Italy
- we can already form countries which have never existed in the exact form shown in EU4: Hindustan, Malaya, Jerusalem, Holy Roman Empire
- we can already form countries which have extremely easy requirements - Bukhara, Kurland
- we can already form 'unrealistically stable cultural unions' - Scandinavia (this is my answer on the critic of concept of Yugoslavia)
I guess neither Paradox nor majority of player cry over these minor (?) inaccuracies
Thus I am not sure if attacking new ideas for Formable Nations based on these points is validate.
Other Unofficial Rules for Already Existing Formable Nations:
- formable countries can't be completely fantasy/ahistorical/unrealistic, they need to have either historical background or cultural background (Malaya, Hindustan, HRE) - I mean, they could appear in this period
- formable countries shouldn't be based on short - living ephemerical states (example: - they should be based on something meaningful
- they shouldn't be extremely anachronic such as, for example, Sparta ( ) or Carthago - the most anachronic Formable Country in EU4 is currently Jerusalem but it could arguably appear again in EU4 period if some lunatic Catholic country resurrected Crusades.
- they need to provide flavor and fun to the game!
Sooo I have written below the most plausible/least criticized (or controversial) suggestions from this entire thread which arguably fit into the Ten Rules of Formable Nations.
1) Belgium
2) Austria - Hungary - controversial as hell
3) Restored Mongol Empire - hey, we can already restore Byzantine Empire right?
4) Arabia
5) The Caliphate - the result of Unify Islam decision?
6) Restored Hungarian Kingdom - possible only for Transylvania (it tried to restore Hungary for long time after it has been annihilated). Hungarian NIs.
7) Anglo - French Union - as the result of clear victory in Hundred Years War?
8) Restored Majapahit Empire - alternatively 'Indonesia' or 'Nusantara', overlapping with Malaya in the same way Italy overlap with Sardinia-Piedmont. Unique National Ideas (Majapahit in 1444 doesn't have them)
9) Kingdom of the Two Sicilies - controversial as hell
10)Yuan - the result of Mongolian hordes conquering China
11) United Kingdom - England, Wales, Scotland and Ireland as opposed to Great Britain (England, Wales, Scotland)
12) Vietnam - Dai Viet + Champa + Prey Nokor province of Khmer -> it is what happened historically in this period.
13) Durrani Empire - Empire formable by Afghanistan: essentially Afghanistan+ Pakistan + Nishapur. Unique NIs.
14) Great Mandala - modern: Burma, Thailand, Laos, Cambodia, Vietnam -> of course this one is ahistorical but similarly to Hindustan (?) and Malaya. Unique National Ideas.
15) Restored Khmer Empire - Khmer + Champa + Laos + Thailand. Unique NIs.
16) Maghreb - Morocco + Algier + Tunisia; based on historical empires of Almoravids/Moors and common Berber culture. Berber National Ideas.
17) Kurdistan - possible to do in AOW map with expanded Caucasus, would require Curdish cultural tag, probably possible to form only by rebellion. Unique National Ideas.
18) Axum Empire - Ethiopia + Adal + Eritrea. Possible to form by Ethiopia and has its ideas.
19) Somalia - Ajuraan + Adal. Unique National Ideas.
20) Missisipi - Native American Empire constisting of provinces of 9 tribes close to Missisipi River: Cree, Chocksaw, Cherokee, Osage, Caddo, Pawnee, Susquehannock, Miami. Capital in the legendary city of Cahokia.
21) Turkey - possible to form by Beyliks if Ottoman Empire falls (???) or if Ottoman Empire loses Constantinople (???)
22) Siam - Late game formable for Thai countries, insta-change to Absolute Monarchy and bonus towards Western tech. National Ideas of Ayyuthaia
23) Myanmar - cultural union of six AOW Burmese states. Has to be called Myanmar - Burma is purely European term Has unique National Ideas
24) Srivijaya - Must have the Srivijaya dynasty in power (only Malacca still has this in 1444), requires Sumatra, Peninsular Malaysia and Western Java. Overlapping with Malaya and Majapahit Empire. Buddhist conversion.
25) Punjab - formable by countries with Panjabi culture.
26) Yugoslavia - Croatia, Bosnia, Serbia, Montenegro. Not less plausible than Hindustan. If formed by Serbia carries uses Serbian NIs, in other case has unique National Ideas.
27) Australia - colonial state
28) Philippines - colonial state, unique National Ideas
29) Boers - colonial state, unique National Ideas
30) California - colonial state
31) Kingdom of Leon - if Castille goes wrong
32) Al - Andalus - if Castille goes EXTREMELY wrong Possible to form by Granada, Fez, Morocco or Algiers, switches on Granada NIs.
33) Samarkanda - ahistorical but not impossible to form in this historical period. Unique National Ideas (super trade).
OK. Now you can debate on these
Unofficial rules for Paradox - made Formable Nations in EU4 1.7.3:
- we can already form countries which historically appeared many decades after 1821
- we can already form countries which are not 100% realistic, such as formable Italy with Napoleonic flag and non-Napoleonic borders
- we can already form overlapping countries: Sardinia-Piedmont vs Italy
- we can already form countries which have never existed in the exact form shown in EU4: Hindustan, Malaya, Jerusalem, Holy Roman Empire
- we can already form countries which have extremely easy requirements - Bukhara, Kurland
- we can already form 'unrealistically stable cultural unions' - Scandinavia (this is my answer on the critic of concept of Yugoslavia)
I guess neither Paradox nor majority of player cry over these minor (?) inaccuracies
Thus I am not sure if attacking new ideas for Formable Nations based on these points is validate.
Other Unofficial Rules for Already Existing Formable Nations:
- formable countries can't be completely fantasy/ahistorical/unrealistic, they need to have either historical background or cultural background (Malaya, Hindustan, HRE) - I mean, they could appear in this period
- formable countries shouldn't be based on short - living ephemerical states (example: - they should be based on something meaningful
- they shouldn't be extremely anachronic such as, for example, Sparta (
) or Carthago - the most anachronic Formable Country in EU4 is currently Jerusalem but it could arguably appear again in EU4 period if some lunatic Catholic country resurrected Crusades.- they need to provide flavor and fun to the game!
Sooo I have written below the most plausible/least criticized (or controversial) suggestions from this entire thread which arguably fit into the Ten Rules of Formable Nations.
1) Belgium
2) Austria - Hungary - controversial as hell
3) Restored Mongol Empire - hey, we can already restore Byzantine Empire right?
4) Arabia
5) The Caliphate - the result of Unify Islam decision?
6) Restored Hungarian Kingdom - possible only for Transylvania (it tried to restore Hungary for long time after it has been annihilated). Hungarian NIs.
7) Anglo - French Union - as the result of clear victory in Hundred Years War?
8) Restored Majapahit Empire - alternatively 'Indonesia' or 'Nusantara', overlapping with Malaya in the same way Italy overlap with Sardinia-Piedmont. Unique National Ideas (Majapahit in 1444 doesn't have them)
9) Kingdom of the Two Sicilies - controversial as hell
10)Yuan - the result of Mongolian hordes conquering China
11) United Kingdom - England, Wales, Scotland and Ireland as opposed to Great Britain (England, Wales, Scotland)
12) Vietnam - Dai Viet + Champa + Prey Nokor province of Khmer -> it is what happened historically in this period.
13) Durrani Empire - Empire formable by Afghanistan: essentially Afghanistan+ Pakistan + Nishapur. Unique NIs.
14) Great Mandala - modern: Burma, Thailand, Laos, Cambodia, Vietnam -> of course this one is ahistorical but similarly to Hindustan (?) and Malaya. Unique National Ideas.
15) Restored Khmer Empire - Khmer + Champa + Laos + Thailand. Unique NIs.
16) Maghreb - Morocco + Algier + Tunisia; based on historical empires of Almoravids/Moors and common Berber culture. Berber National Ideas.
17) Kurdistan - possible to do in AOW map with expanded Caucasus, would require Curdish cultural tag, probably possible to form only by rebellion. Unique National Ideas.
18) Axum Empire - Ethiopia + Adal + Eritrea. Possible to form by Ethiopia and has its ideas.
19) Somalia - Ajuraan + Adal. Unique National Ideas.
20) Missisipi - Native American Empire constisting of provinces of 9 tribes close to Missisipi River: Cree, Chocksaw, Cherokee, Osage, Caddo, Pawnee, Susquehannock, Miami. Capital in the legendary city of Cahokia.
21) Turkey - possible to form by Beyliks if Ottoman Empire falls (???) or if Ottoman Empire loses Constantinople (???)
22) Siam - Late game formable for Thai countries, insta-change to Absolute Monarchy and bonus towards Western tech. National Ideas of Ayyuthaia
23) Myanmar - cultural union of six AOW Burmese states. Has to be called Myanmar - Burma is purely European term
Has unique National Ideas24) Srivijaya - Must have the Srivijaya dynasty in power (only Malacca still has this in 1444), requires Sumatra, Peninsular Malaysia and Western Java. Overlapping with Malaya and Majapahit Empire. Buddhist conversion.
25) Punjab - formable by countries with Panjabi culture.
26) Yugoslavia - Croatia, Bosnia, Serbia, Montenegro. Not less plausible than Hindustan. If formed by Serbia carries uses Serbian NIs, in other case has unique National Ideas.
27) Australia - colonial state
28) Philippines - colonial state, unique National Ideas
29) Boers - colonial state, unique National Ideas
30) California - colonial state
31) Kingdom of Leon - if Castille goes wrong
32) Al - Andalus - if Castille goes EXTREMELY wrong
Possible to form by Granada, Fez, Morocco or Algiers, switches on Granada NIs.33) Samarkanda - ahistorical but not impossible to form in this historical period. Unique National Ideas (super trade).
OK. Now you can debate on these
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You... are aware that "Hindustan" is the Muslim realm, right?
Historically, Hindustan referred to Gurkanian/The Mughal Empire. "Hindu" comes from a Persian word referring to the river Indus. The people on the other side of the river were known as Hindus, regardless of religious denomination. Thus, to various Iranian peoples, "Hindustan" came to be a common name for India.
What we'd actually need are four different formable nations for India as Hindustan is a cultural union, but only for the Hindustani group. There should also be cultural unions for the Dravidian, Eastern Aryan and Western Aryan groups.
I do think you could fit a kind of "Barbary States" union under Tripoli, Tunis and Algiers.
True, I did take a look and it does look promising. But more formable nations for the hordes is always good. Bukhara was a good one for the Uzbeks, so why not be able to restore the Yuan for Oirats/Mongolia? I mean, you can restore Byzantium as a Greek Orthodox nation, even if it's 1820 and the ERE is long gone. Add in Mongolian NIs, some flavor events, and rework the Eastern Religions and bam, your Far East games are like 100000x better.
It's more than implied. It is. Italy is playable starting in 1797 as a vassal of Revolutionary France, and later on under a personal union. Paradox just used the same tag instead of having to create a new tag with a new flag.
Italy, Germany, Malaya, Hindustan, Scandinavia. These formable nations represent a union of their culture groups. I don't really think they are there because of history or whatever. It's somewhat similar to how France and England are also formable.