More formable nations in AOW

[Atilla 'The Hun']

So I was wondering if the development team is planning to add more decisions for more formable nations!
I always see people suggesting for it on the forums but it seems that no one likes to care about it, I mean its like one of the best flavours in Europa Universalis to form new nations by decisions!

So here by I suggest more formable nations!

As example,


Belgium
Austria-Hungary
Two Sicilies
The Mongol Empire [Restore]
Roman Empire [Restore]
Carthage Empire [Restore]

'Turkish Nation' formable by the beyliks
'China'
'Arabia'

It adds a lot of flavor just saying..

 

[Lapsed Pacifist]

Hmmm...Agree with Mongol Empire and Roman Empire, and possibly Arab Caliphate too, not sure about the others though.

Belgium and Austria-Hungary only came into being after 1821, and Naples already is the Two Sicilies in all but name.

Don't know about Carthage, they seem a bit too ancient to re-form, and Tunisia is more Berber than Phoenician.

 

[lordelenath]

Naples already is the Two Sicilies in all but name.

Just saying: Aren't (almost) all formable nations nothing but a name (=tag) change? That's the sole purpose of this game: painting the map with your favorite tag. I don't think the argument "it's just a name" is relevant in the case of formable nations.

 

[1337Marth]

Hmmm...Agree with Mongol Empire and Roman Empire, and possibly Arab Caliphate too, not sure about the others though.

Belgium and Austria-Hungary only came into being after 1821, and Naples already is the Two Sicilies in all but name.

Don't know about Carthage, they seem a bit too ancient to re-form, and Tunisia is more Berber than Phoenician.

Well Germany was formed after 1821, but I don't see you complaining about that.

 

[Niebulheim]

Well Germany was formed after 1821, but I don't see you complaining about that.

The idea of a united Germany is a lot older than 1821.

Edit: Scandinavia would be a better example. I don't think the idea of a united Scandinavia(without one nation being above the other) was really on the table before Napoleon.

 

[grommile]

Austria-Hungary

This one, as a suggestion for EU4, always amuses me. The Ausgleich of 1867 was a panicked attempt to stop the Habsburg state from being centrifuged by the largest of its internal tensions, which ironically led to the other internal tensions getting worse. It's not really a sensible basis for an EU4 decision.

 

[Kansai-kun]

What we need would be different cultural unions for India. "Hindustan" is functioning as the cultural union for the Hindustani group, but there a three other culture groups needing their own union.

 

[wergy]

Hungary itself as a formable nation would be a good idea. I mean it was the main goal of the very existence of the Transylvanian Principality as a more or less independent nation to represent Hungarian interests and eventually re-form the Hungarian Kingdom.

I would like to see some more colonial nations too. Some colonies just don't want to break away, no matter what you do. Maybe a bit more nationalism would be nice.

There could be a few fictional nations as well, like an Anglo-French union, Lotharingia (I mean not Lorraine, but the original one), the Roman Emire (if someone could dominate Italy an the Balkans as an Italian nation) etc.

And Romania! But it should have more requirements than just simply unify Wallachia and Moldova.

 

[moscal]

If Austria-Hungary why not Soviet Union?

But seriously - maybe united caucasian state? Caucasian Imamate is ahistorical, but Caucasus peoples have common interests and ideas.

 

[StatikShocker]

Well Tibet and Manchu are going to be formable now so there is something.

Seriously, however. I would like China. And something Caliphatey. And Kingdom of God. We have decision for making all of these things, they just don't change the tag for some reason.

Mongol Empire and Indonesia are things I would like. Throw in the Romans I guess, why not.

After that, you really begin making things up.

 

[Blindbohemian]

So I was wondering if the development team is planning to add more decisions for more formable nations!
I always see people suggesting for it on the forums but it seems that no one likes to care about it, I mean its like one of the best flavours in Europa Universalis to form new nations by decisions!

So here by I suggest more formable nations!

As example,


Belgium
Austria-Hungary
Two Sicilies
The Mongol Empire [Restore]
Roman Empire [Restore]
Carthage Empire [Restore]

'China'
'Arabia'

It adds a lot of flavor just saying..

While I do for some reason like the idea of playing Belgium in EUIV it would make very little sense. It came into being after 1821 and was, as far as I know, largely an artificial creation intended to work as a defensive thingummmy. Hence it was perpetually neutral. In theory. I don't think it would fit in EUIV, anyway. Maybe Flanders could be formable by the little one province nations down there. And/or Wallonia.

Austria-Hungary makes no sense. If I have my history correct, even the Austrians didn't want to 'form' Austria-Hungary. It was kind of like an 'accept demands', and given that EUIV doesn't model the problems of a multi-cultural empire well if at all, it definitely wouldn't fit.

Two Sicilies I don't know a great deal about, but seems a bit pointless. What would you need to form it? Ingame Naples + like two other easy-to-get provinces you already have cores on. Historical context aside I think formable nations should pose something of a challenge to work toward, not ridiculously easy. It would be like the Great Britain in 1510 problem but worse.

The Mongol Empire? Yeah I can see that. Different name though, but it would be a cool goal for the Hordes.

Rome... Eh. You can already restore Byzantium. Maybe a Byzantine-only decision requiring you to hold a ton of land and have dismantled the Holy Roman Empire... I don't know how much I'd like a decision like that. I guess if it was tough enough to be almost impossible it would be okay.

Carthage - no way. Who would form it? What would the requirements be? Carthage was a Semitic polity. Tunis and the other Berbers would make no sense at all. Phoenicia and everything about Carthage are just too far in the past. It would be like France forming Gaul, or Karaman forming Arche Seleukia, or Candar forming Pontus.

China I like. I don't know why. Short of implementing an actual dynastic naming system (please!) I think that's the best way to deal with China, to be honest. Or at least make it become China should it westernise or become a republic or something.

Arabia I don't like. Arabia is a geographical region, not a polity. Even now it's called Saudi Arabia, which I suspect would in EUIV terms just be called Saudis or something like that. Whoever takes over Arabia should be able to have their name painted over Arabia.

I wouldn't mind seeing a formable Lotharingia in-game. It would give Burgundy another goal besides giving up and becoming Netherlands, and isn't even all that implausible.

 

[AndreasPhokas]

Arabia, Rajputana, A north Africa Union, Give a separate Hindustan formation for muslims.

Pontus let it be a greek/Gothic formable but you have to own theodoro caffa sinope and Trebizond.

edit: Maybe a Slavic Balkan formible, Illyria(well maybe not call it that who knows)

 

[blackchoas]

I agree with this in theory although disagree with many of your suggestions

Frankly I think every region should have a nation that can be formed by united most or all of the land. This is actually one of my favorite things about victoria 2 there are a whole bunch of completely ahistorical nations that can appear and be formed by the player if he tries and I wish there was more of that in EU4

Also do wish there was more involved in forming a nation though, I wouldnt mind more formable nations being like the Netherlands where you get the option to change to their historical government type if you want with maybe a few nations getting government types ahead of time or more unique types

 

[Seiska]

Has someone suggested formable empires yet ? I mean after getting certain amount of provinces / wealth / military power you could enact a decision to become an empire. It would change your tag and add and "empire" to it and maybe change your government form and add some bonuses / negative effects. Would be pretty cool and not too difficult to add (?).

 

[V1ribus]

Gib me United Kingdom nao!

 

[Niebulheim]

But seriously - maybe united caucasian state? Caucasian Imamate is ahistorical, but Caucasus peoples have common interests and ideas.

I would love if this would be implemented into the game. Give the Caucasus region a chance of actually having a good culture group. This would give more power to an already weak region(apart from the amazing gold mine), since there are probably going to be a few, tiny, unique Caucasian cultures in the Art of War.

 

[FitzChiv]

Kingdom of the Two Sicilies makes the most sense, no reason for it not to be included, especially as it was formed during the EU4 time period. Saying "it'd be too easy" makes zero sense, it'd be no easier than forming GB or Egypt. Egypt would be a good model for a Two Sicilies as well, in that it requires 20 admin tech unlike the usual 10, meaning a more realistic later game formation.

 

[Duke of Britain]

Kingdom of the Two Sicilies makes the most sense, no reason for it not to be included, especially as it was formed during the EU4 time period. Saying "it'd be too easy" makes zero sense, it'd be no easier than forming GB or Egypt. Egypt would be a good model for a Two Sicilies as well, in that it requires 20 admin tech unlike the usual 10, meaning a more realistic later game formation.

Sorry, but that's just wrong.

The Kingdom of Two Sicilies is nothing more than the result of the reunion between the Kingdom of Trinacia and the Kingdom of Naples post the Napoleonic era, the problem is that both claimed to be the Kingdom of Sicily. This problem arose when the Aragonese gained the island herself, which led to both of them claiming the Kingdom of Sicily.

Ultimately, the Kingdom of Sicily in the island got to be called often as the "Kingdom of Trinacia", while the Kingdom of Sicily in the mainland would be called by many as the "Kingdom of Naples". Later the Aragonese, the Spanish and the Austrians would all end up gaining both the Sicilies, of course.

Not even when independent Naples was reunited with Sicily under the Bourbons did the King create that thing. It is more of a post-Napoleonic creation, and it would make more sense if they just became the Kingdom of Sicily if they got to control both the island and the mainland, as it is the revival of the proper and unified Kingdom.

EDIT:

The Mamluks and Egypt thing makes no sense at all when compared to Two Sicilies. The Mamluks were Caucasian slaves who ruled over Egypt, it is perfectly reasonable to have separate tags for the Egyptians and the Mamluks, although I don't think they should shift into Egypt proper unless the Mamluks were ousted.

 

[Tacticus101]

You can already form China....

 

[Dakilla TM]

Ummm where's Yuan? I've literally petitioned for this a million times and there's yet to be a Yuan in game. Adding this will give the two Buddhist hordes more flavor and even own Mongolian NIs and missions. But then again PDox never listens so whatevs