More formable countries

[net.split]

Great Britain should have a higher level of administration to be formable. People can form it way too early in the game. Same with most other formable nations. Perhaps a event like the Iberian wedding for England and Scotland? Then maybe United Kingdom at a way higher administration level since the UK was formed well within the EU4 timeframe.

Why? If the Isles are united earlier, then why couldn't the state be formed earlier? Same with most other formable nations. If you're already changing history by who controls what, why arbitrarily force the tag changes themselves to wait for the historical date?

I'd like to see a lot of the already existing time requirements changed, or at least alternate paths granted at earlier times. Sokoto, for example, won't show up until the late 1700s no matter what you do. This means there is no formable nation to try to achieve as a West African, and anything tied to Sokoto will be essentially useless because the game is already essentially over when it appears.

 

[Metz]

Scandinavia should get the same events as Sweden (if formed by them) and so should Germany if formed by Prussia. Formables should have the same events as the previous country that formed them.


Also we should get an option to keep the same national ideas or adopt new ones. If we form Italy as Venice, we'd loose all those trade based ideas. But why? If a trading nation like Venice formed Italy then surely it would have commerce and trade as a backbone of the nation. Same with the militarism of Milan or prestige based ideas of Florence.

 

[Metz]

Why? If the Isles are united earlier, then why couldn't the state be formed earlier? Same with most other formable nations. If you're already changing history by who controls what, why arbitrarily force the tag changes themselves to wait for the historical date?

I'd like to see a lot of the already existing time requirements changed, or at least alternate paths granted at earlier times. Sokoto, for example, won't show up until the late 1700s no matter what you do. This means there is no formable nation to try to achieve as a West African, and anything tied to Sokoto will be essentially useless because the game is already essentially over when it appears.

You are right, I mixed up what I feel about the situation. What I believe would be best is to make it harder for England to conquer Scotland. This can be solved by adding more provinces to Scotland (England could use more as well). Scotland falls way too easy. It should be prolonged and an event similar to the Iberian Wedding should be made for both, which will place the Stuart family in charge.

 

[net.split]

You are right, I mixed up what I feel about the situation. What I believe would be best is to make it harder for England to conquer Scotland. This can be solved by adding more provinces to Scotland (England could use more as well). Scotland falls way too easy. It should be prolonged and an event similar to the Iberian Wedding should be made for both, which will place the Stuart family in charge.

That's true. I feel like a lot of places that were actually very difficult to conquer (see: Granada) fall way too early because their defensiveness doesn't really come into play all that much. There are some terrain bonuses, but the AI is horrible at using them; all too often a nation like Scotland will send its army around England's and start laying siege to English territory while losing their entire homeland. Weaker nations with defensible terrain should park themselves and try to catch the attackers when they have the home advantage.

On that note I'd prefer to see a notable home defensive advantage (something like the existing river penalty) while eliminating most of the current river crossing modifiers from the game. There are so many river crossings it's almost expected that you'll be running into one most of the time if you're attacking. Switch this to a -1 penalty to the enemy if you're fighting them on your core territory (or an ally's in the war?), then adjust the AI so weaker nations try to intercept attacking armies in home turf (unless they're so vastly outnumbered so as not to have any chance at all), only switching to the offensive once the numbers have shifted in their favor.

 

[DCyDe]

we need cultural unions, if there is a Scandinavia and a Germany, we need that for other cultures as well.

 

[Duarte]

How could you guys have forgotten the most needed formable nation Lotharingia!

Also while were at it, what about tag recycling?, some tags only appear in late game start dates, like Etruria, why not make these tags formable, at least they would be used.

 

[de Ptysz]

How could you guys have forgotten the most needed formable nation Lotharingia!

At last someone pointed this out. It should be the default option for surviving Uber-Burgundy.

My proposals:
-Kingdom of Two Sicilies(!!!) - actual historical nation, so it has to be included
-Swabia - obvious formable tag for Swabian culture nations.
-Illyria - union tag for South Slavs, pretty random name but still more suitable for the era than Yugoslavia, although the name was actually used in the early Nineteenth Century - Napoleonic Illyrian Provinces, Austrian Crown Land Kingdom of Illyria and Pan-Slavist Illyrian movement.
-Latin Empire - situation similar to Kingdom of Jerusalem; union tag for Byzantine cultures and elevates country to empire rank, available for post-crusader states and Sicily/Naples/KoTS
-Belgium - late-game alternative for forming Netherlands, btw historical
-Greater Maghreb - union tag for Maghrebi cultures
-More formable nations in Americas - Cuba, Florida, California etc.

I'd also like to see some changes in existing formable countries:
-BUR -> NED: this path is pretty silly, if it's representing hypothetical Kingdom of Lotharingia then it should not cede provinces to France, also the prime culture should change to Flemish not Dutch.
-Spain - there should be a scenario for Portugal forming union with Castille, not sure if the prime culture should change, but the capital should remain in Lisbon.

Also while were at it, what about tag recycling?, some tags only appear in late game start dates, like Etruria, why not make these tags formable, at least they would be used.

Another good idea. Should also include Hungary (for Transylvania).

 

[Metz]

That's true. I feel like a lot of places that were actually very difficult to conquer (see: Granada) fall way too early because their defensiveness doesn't really come into play all that much. There are some terrain bonuses, but the AI is horrible at using them; all too often a nation like Scotland will send its army around England's and start laying siege to English territory while losing their entire homeland. Weaker nations with defensible terrain should park themselves and try to catch the attackers when they have the home advantage.

On that note I'd prefer to see a notable home defensive advantage (something like the existing river penalty) while eliminating most of the current river crossing modifiers from the game. There are so many river crossings it's almost expected that you'll be running into one most of the time if you're attacking. Switch this to a -1 penalty to the enemy if you're fighting them on your core territory (or an ally's in the war?), then adjust the AI so weaker nations try to intercept attacking armies in home turf (unless they're so vastly outnumbered so as not to have any chance at all), only switching to the offensive once the numbers have shifted in their favor.

Granada survived longer in reality because it was a tributary state to Castile. They paid Castile tribute since they had access to the Sub-saharan gold trade, something that Castile could not tap in to. Once Portugal started to set up bases in West Africa, they got involved in that trade and they took over Granada's role as the indirect middle man. Granada then became useless and ultimately they were invaded and annexed in 1492.

This leads to things that can be added in EU4. First, the concept of tributary state. This was recently added in CK2 under the Horse Lords DLC. A tributary state can be like the step before a vassal, as opposed to having to obey another country both economically and militarily, tributary states just pay money to preserve their sovereignty. Perhaps Granada should start as a tributary state under Castile, which will prolong its survival. A event later on could happen where the tributary state is broken and Castile is given claims on Granadan provinces (that is if it isn't broken by Castile earlier on which it shouldn't be).

Second, Granada is severly underpowered in the game. It only has 3 provinces, the province of Granada should be split into Malaga and Granada. Granada at the time was one of the most populated and wealthiest cities in Europe. Eventually, the expulsion of Moors and Jews in southern Spain weakened such cities. Castile once it controls Granada, should get the event to either keep the Moors and Jews (causing the provinces to remain Sunni Muslim for a good couple of years) or get the option to expel the Moors and Jews which instantly converts the province religions to Catholic but lowers all 3 development levels by a lot. This would be the ideal way to simulate what happened.

 

[Schiltrus]

Angevin Union formable? It could have happened.

 

[Schiltrus]

Castile once it controls Granada, should get the event to either keep the Moors and Jews (causing the provinces to remain Sunni Muslim for a good couple of years) or get the option to expel the Moors and Jews which instantly converts the province religions to Catholic but lowers all 3 development levels by a lot. This would be the ideal way to simulate what happened.

There already exists an event pretty similar to this

 

[Metz]

There already exists an event pretty similar to this

Does it reduce the development if you choose to expel the Moors?

 

[Schiltrus]

Does it reduce the development if you choose to expel the Moors?

just checked and it looks like it doesn't anymore, but it used to reduce base tax, which was more realistic

 

[Metz]

just checked and it looks like it doesn't anymore, but it used to reduce base tax, which was more realistic

It should be restored and also production and manpower should be decreased since the majority of people living there were Moors, them being expelled would logically lower the labor force and the recruitable manpower.

 

[DreadLindwyrm]

You are right, I mixed up what I feel about the situation. What I believe would be best is to make it harder for England to conquer Scotland. This can be solved by adding more provinces to Scotland (England could use more as well). Scotland falls way too easy. It should be prolonged and an event similar to the Iberian Wedding should be made for both, which will place the Stuart family in charge.

The Stuarts coming to power over England was a long shot. If the Plantagenet cadet houses hadn't essentially exterminated themselves in the War of the Roses, and then the Tudors failed to make it into a fourth generation (Henry > Henry > Edward/Mary/Elizabeth), then there wouldn't have been an inheritance like that. It shouldn't be an event, since it wasn't in any way likely previous to Henry VIII's children all failing to breed.

 

[klandri]

I'm all for new formables as long as they don't suck.

Not exactly formable but add Iceland you cheeky Swedes. It's more historical than Estonia and even Finland.

 

[neondt]

Recently posted a suggestion here for decisions to form Dai Viet and Lan Xang. They're not new formables, but they are the primary nations of cultures that have other tags.

 

[GalladGil]

-Belgium - late-game alternative for forming Netherlands, btw historical

Doesn't revolutionary Burgundy become Belgium?

 

[Greyhound_Gen.]

Just throwing some ideas out here - not sure if people will think they're worth the effort to add them, but they might help to makes some ROTW areas more interesting:

Southeast Asia: Burma (as with Alaungpaya's empire), Siam and perhaps something for the states on Java and Sumatra (as an equivalent to Malaya)? Possibly a Vietnam tag too?

Sub-Saharan Africa: I'd love to see more formables here but there aren't many viable candidates. Possibly some kind of unified Somalia and Swahili (not sure what the latter would be called - Azania? Zanj? Swahililand? Does anyon know what 'Swahili Coast' in Swahili?) tags? If some of the Oromo kingdoms/tribes were added Oromia could be formable. Similarly Mossi could be broken up and the original tag could be used as a formable. Mali could maybe be reformable by some of the other Mande tags (or even some of its vassals/revolters - like Kaabu) if it collapses.

Middle East/North Africa: Kurdistan and possibly Libya and/or Cyrenaica? Hejaz could possibly be made into a formable if it was split into sharifates. Possibly Khwarezm/Chorasmia as although the Khwarezmian Empire ceased to exist over a hundred years before the start of the game the concept of the region continued?

Americas: Can't think of any formables that would work with the current mechanics, but if the Federation system were given more depth it might be possible to form tags like the Iron Confederacy/Nehiyaw-Pwat or for current tags the Iroquois, Pueblo or Sioux to split up and possibly reform later. Also I don't know if they cound as formables, but more tags for breakaway Colonial Nations would be nice too (possibly California, Alaska, Florida, Texas, Cuba, West Indies, Guatemala, Guyana, Paraguay, Araucania and/or Patagonia?).

Anyway - hopefully at least some of these aren't completely terrible ideas. I'd also support Yuan and Rajasthan if they were added!

EDIT: Also if Dai Viet and Lan Xang aren't formables that should be fixed!

 

[Wizzington]

Not exactly formable but add Iceland you cheeky Swedes. It's more historical than Estonia and even Finland.

Ice... land?

Did you mean 'Western Norway'?

 

[klandri]

Ice... land?

Did you mean 'Western Norway'?

Norway, more like No Way lmao
I would be okay with replacing Norway with Iceland if that's more your game.

Edit: According to the Swedes Norway is western Sweden anyway, Finland eastern Sweden and apparently according to EU4 France southern Sweden. Yet they all get their tags.