My main interaction with the Crime system is to disable the enforcer jobs that my capital buildings provide. I play a Robosociailist Utopia build (Shared Burdens and Mechanist) which is probably a pretty low-crime build naturally, though.
More crime please!
- Thread starter YertyL
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More whips? C'mon . there can't be too many whips when slaves are around...
I played against crime syndicate AI's before and they're the most annoying thing ever ruining some of my best planets with 100 crime.
Crime should do much more bad things yes but it also should be harder to spread then, because right now its WAY too easy to get 100 crime.
I'm curious to know what your play style was in that game, as I have never had trouble passively squashing crime in 2.2. I'm not saying you're somehow playing the game "wrong," I'd just like to know the circumstances.
My problem with crime in 2.2 is that it is as toothless as unrest was. This has the added effect of making Crime Syndicates/Subversive Cults toothless as well. The only time I ever even remember it exists is when I get a crime syndicate office on a planet, and even then, all I have to do to neuter them is build 1 precinct (non-upgraded) on that planet and the problem goes away.
Or, you know, you could ask and listen as to why they think those stats are redundant rather than immediately jumping to the 'mod it' train.
So, would you suggest just having crime be a part of stability or go back to unrest?
Speaking honestly, an overwhelming police force is not very effective at preventing crime if the society has a concept of privacy, or a fear of a 1984 scenario. Police is supposed to be there to respond to threats and maybe deter some of the more pragmatic criminal-wannabes. It can't save you from sudden acts of passion, which tend to occur no matter the consequences or level of law enforcement. Also, on-the-street law enforcement is pretty poor against organized criminals (aka Criminal Syndicates).
I would personally argue that Law enforcement should have a policy, that determines the effects of Enforcers. It'd have three options: Privacy Rights, Preventive Measures, and Covert Enforcers. Most empires would only have access to Privacy Rights, which means Enforcers do NOT passively reduce crime on a planet; they instead contribute to some sort of "crime response". With a huge police force, you can prevent most crime events and modifiers caused by unhappy pops. But they offer almost no protection against crime events when there is a criminal syndicate office on the planet. This means crime-filled planets become extremely tempting locations for a criminal syndicate.
The second option, Preventative measures, allows the enforcers to actively violate citizen's privacy in an effort to catch criminals before they act. This WILL cause enforcers to naturally lower crime on a planet, and nearly all crime events can be prevented by a high crime response. Syndicate buildings will reduce the crime suppression of enforcers, but in return a high crime response would now be quite capable of preventing many crime events even if there is an office on the building. Unfortunately, pops would suffer mildly (likely in happiness), and this policy would only be available to "oppressive" empires; namely Authoritarians, Police States, maybe a few other civics. Alternatively, some ethics could get slightly modified versions of this policy, like a Spiritualist "inquisition" version that lowers unity instead of pop happiness.
The third option I came up with was more of a re-branding of the rather sad Shadow Council civic. Let's face it, it sounds more like a society that is secretly monitored and threats are removed without the public ever learning, rather than a glorified election rigging team. I'd think it'd be nice for this civic to have a unique policy for allowing enforcers (or hell a unique job, "secret enforcers" or something) to do an excellent job of lowering crime and effectively prevent all crime events. After all, was the mayor really corrupt if no one can find any record of it? This would probably be the most difficult for a crime syndicate to operate, since they never know when a random citizen might just be a secret enforcer who's about to un-person them.
I would personally argue that Law enforcement should have a policy, that determines the effects of Enforcers. It'd have three options: Privacy Rights, Preventive Measures, and Covert Enforcers. Most empires would only have access to Privacy Rights, which means Enforcers do NOT passively reduce crime on a planet; they instead contribute to some sort of "crime response". With a huge police force, you can prevent most crime events and modifiers caused by unhappy pops. But they offer almost no protection against crime events when there is a criminal syndicate office on the planet. This means crime-filled planets become extremely tempting locations for a criminal syndicate.
The second option, Preventative measures, allows the enforcers to actively violate citizen's privacy in an effort to catch criminals before they act. This WILL cause enforcers to naturally lower crime on a planet, and nearly all crime events can be prevented by a high crime response. Syndicate buildings will reduce the crime suppression of enforcers, but in return a high crime response would now be quite capable of preventing many crime events even if there is an office on the building. Unfortunately, pops would suffer mildly (likely in happiness), and this policy would only be available to "oppressive" empires; namely Authoritarians, Police States, maybe a few other civics. Alternatively, some ethics could get slightly modified versions of this policy, like a Spiritualist "inquisition" version that lowers unity instead of pop happiness.
The third option I came up with was more of a re-branding of the rather sad Shadow Council civic. Let's face it, it sounds more like a society that is secretly monitored and threats are removed without the public ever learning, rather than a glorified election rigging team. I'd think it'd be nice for this civic to have a unique policy for allowing enforcers (or hell a unique job, "secret enforcers" or something) to do an excellent job of lowering crime and effectively prevent all crime events. After all, was the mayor really corrupt if no one can find any record of it? This would probably be the most difficult for a crime syndicate to operate, since they never know when a random citizen might just be a secret enforcer who's about to un-person them.
Basically 3 out of 4 of my ecumenopoli with 200 pops had crime branches opened and immediately filled to the point where I needed to build a Hall of Justice to reduce crime but even with the maximum enforcers with one building it was not enough to reduce crime to 0, and even where reducing it was enough it takes a long a@@ time for the branch office to close the only way to doing it manually being war which is quite annoying.
What about overweighted influence of rulers in stratified societies?
There can't be enough dakka, eh?)
If you think the game would be better with that change, showcase it so people can see if they agree.
I Personally hoped as far back as the Unrest Supression being introduced, that there would be some kind of cap on how much Unrest/Crime supression you can get. A policy setting that has attraction for Authoritarian Ethics would make the most sense.
You took one Extreme Case - Ecumenopolis - and added another extreme case - Criminal Syndicate - to it.
Both extreme cases that require the Megacorp DLC.
It is hardly a common gameplay example.
You get ecumenopolis in any game if you even get through the end of the mid-game phase so what's your point? That I should destroy any criminal syndicates by the mid-game completely without any collossi even if they are on literally the other side of the universe? No thanks, that's not a solution and yes crime is a criminal syndicate mechanic you absolutely cannot ignore them when discussing crime, ideally you should have one of every type of empire in a normal balanced ordinary game.
Extreme? What's exterme about it? Its a basic feature of the game and it being related to the Megacorp DLC well of fucking course it is because that's the latest version of the game or do you think that we should balance the game around people with none of the DLC unlocked or what game version do you want balance to be worked around?! This is a pathethic excuse. The game has to be balanced for the latest update, if the latest update is broken then the system is broken.
Its the MOST common gameplay example.
You are trying to tell me building 4 Ecumenopoly is the most common gameplay style?
You have a crime issue? Make a deal with crime lords!
10 free stability, no need for enforcers (counters the lost of 4 pops due to criminal jobs), immunity to crime related events.
Who wouldn't do that?
10 free stability, no need for enforcers (counters the lost of 4 pops due to criminal jobs), immunity to crime related events.
Who wouldn't do that?
Yeah I dont know what game you play but if you dont have 4 ecumenopoli by the end of the midgame on normal 1x tech/tradition speed then something weird is going on, maybe you got into a lot of early wars with exterminators/purifiers or the Khan screwed you or whatever...
Cough cough gestalt and agrarian idyll can't get arcology cough cough.
When a neighbouring criminal syndicate started establishing branch offices in my biggest trade centers. They were super useful.
Yeah well gestalt can get their own version of hive or machine worlds respectively, agrarian idyll is 1 special civic so you know, its not the standard game its a special case scenario.
I must admit that machine world and hive world are closer to an upgraded gaia world than an arcology.
Back on crime I like the idea that enforcer can't entirely prevent it but it may feel frustrating. Yup in reality crime will always exist as long as there is free will but the question is : Would it feel ok for player to always have a bit of crime?
If it's without consequences, the 0 does it's job. If there are consequences that mean that event of crime may fire on any planet. That can be a good or a bad thing depending on how well it's done and their frequency.
Back on crime I like the idea that enforcer can't entirely prevent it but it may feel frustrating. Yup in reality crime will always exist as long as there is free will but the question is : Would it feel ok for player to always have a bit of crime?
If it's without consequences, the 0 does it's job. If there are consequences that mean that event of crime may fire on any planet. That can be a good or a bad thing depending on how well it's done and their frequency.
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