More Accurate India

[Raven100]

1. Bharat/Hindustan are religion and geography based tags. So forming them should make all the cultures of the Indian subcontinent acceptable instead of just 1 group (eg eastern aryans only)

2. Allow Hindu rulers (specially eastern Indian Hindu rulers) ability to gain Buddha as a personal deity as historically Magadha (great Ashoka) propagated buddhism to most nations like sri lanka and central asia. Pala kings of Bengal were Buddhists yet nearly all subjects were Hindus and no malice or conversion took place. Best mordern day example is Hayagriva temple in Hajo,Assam where a huge mandir (temple) is there which is both dedicated to lord buddha and lord vishnu. Hence buddha as a personal deity being fixed to 2 S E Asians countries is not historically accurate

3. Buddhist provinces should not have any religious disunity when under a Hindu ruler with Buddha as personal deity (like it happened historically)

4. Hinduism, Jainism, Sikhism, Buddhism are basically heresies instead of separate religions. But in game Buddhism is considered a separate faith than Hinduism/Sikhism

5. If a Christian nation unites all of the Indian subcontinent, add formable tag India with High tolerance of Heathens (like the Indian Sultanates) inplace of Bharat or Hindustan

6. Recent buffs to HRE and Rome , Bharat ideas should be buffed as Hindustan can go on blobbing Muslim territories in the west without needing to convert the Heathens) whereas Bharat is Hindu and has no such blobbing potential and idea sets are poor

7. Indian sultanates (eg Bengal) if switched to Hinduism (which is very practical as all the provinces are Hindu) the mission tree gets broken. So an alternate path will be fun for roleplaying. Also very few events and flavors for Hindu nations except the generic 2 or 3 for the big 4 nations

Hope the dev team reads and gives an update on my suggestion as it would make the region more fun (not just Mughals)

 

[jamal bakr]

the buddha personal deity thing was a gimmick to sell leviathan. The buddhist monuments were obviously set up to give additional benefits to a mediocre religion; being able to get both Harmandir Sahib (-15% autonomy in territory) and Imperial City of Hue (-10% autonomy to territories) is bonkers enough for Khmer and Majaphit. Giving it to hindughals is just absurd; at that point just open dev mode.

Bharat ideas should be buffed as Hindustan can go on blobbing Muslim territories in the west without needing to convert the Heathens) whereas Bharat is Hindu and has no such blobbing potential and idea sets are poor

hinduism starts with +1 tolerance of heathens out of the bag. Take Humanist for another +2 and -15 years of seperation total. Dharmic monuments throw religious unity/tolerance at you. Ellora caves with another +1 to heathens. Gomateshwara Statue for another +1. Dharmic religion has no problem whatsoever getting to 3/3 tolerance, they don't need even more gimmicks. Bharats ideas are good; admin efficiency, discipline, years of seperation, all very good, top tier qualities. Mughals is so much better because of its diwan system and mission based +10% admin efficiecy. But one nation has to be "the most outrageously OP", and its fine that it is Mughals.

5. If a Christian nation unites all of the Indian subcontinent, add formable tag India with High tolerance of Heathens (like the Indian Sultanates) inplace of Bharat or Hindustan

I don't think this historically makes sense; there is no equivalent of "dhimmi" in christian theology. At its core, its a very "universal" religion; whether you see this as a bad thing or a good thing depends on your taste.

 

[Raven100]

the buddha personal deity thing was a gimmick to sell leviathan. The buddhist monuments were obviously set up to give additional benefits to a mediocre religion; being able to get both Harmandir Sahib (-15% autonomy in territory) and Imperial City of Hue (-10% autonomy to territories) is bonkers enough for Khmer and Majaphit. Giving it to hindughals is just absurd; at that point just open dev mode.




hinduism starts with +1 tolerance of heathens out of the bag. Take Humanist for another +2 and -15 years of seperation total. Dharmic monuments throw religious unity/tolerance at you. Ellora caves with another +1 to heathens. Gomateshwara Statue for another +1. Dharmic religion has no problem whatsoever getting to 3/3 tolerance, they don't need even more gimmicks. Bharats ideas are good; admin efficiency, discipline, years of seperation, all very good, top tier qualities. Mughals is so much better because of its diwan system and mission based +10% admin efficiecy. But one nation has to be "the most outrageously OP", and its fine that it is Mughals.




I don't think this historically makes sense; there is no equivalent of "dhimmi" in christian theology. At its core, its a very "universal" religion; whether you see this as a bad thing or a good thing depends on your taste.

Christian nation holding it would be more equivalent to the british raj. It was based on superiority of the british race rather than dominance of religion hence it would be more accurate to give it more tolerance of heathens unlike Bahamanis and some other Indian sultanates which historically were not tolerant towards the majority Hindus

 

[AvengedK1ng]

1. Bharat/Hindustan are religion and geography based tags. So forming them should make all the cultures of the Indian subcontinent acceptable instead of just 1 group (eg eastern aryans only)

No, you shouldn't just get to ignore a game mechanic

2. Allow Hindu rulers (specially eastern Indian Hindu rulers) ability to gain Buddha as a personal deity as historically Magadha (great Ashoka) propagated buddhism to most nations like sri lanka and central asia. Pala kings of Bengal were Buddhists yet nearly all subjects were Hindus and no malice or conversion took place. Best mordern day example is Hayagriva temple in Hajo,Assam where a huge mandir (temple) is there which is both dedicated to lord buddha and lord vishnu. Hence buddha as a personal deity being fixed to 2 S E Asians countries is not historically accurate

Isnt this already a thing?

3. Buddhist provinces should not have any religious disunity when under a Hindu ruler with Buddha as personal deity (like it happened historically)

Nah, the palas of bengal partly didnt receive aid due to being buddhists not hindus, and the Hinduism within bengal (especially caste structure) differed to the hinduism of southern India

4. Hinduism, Jainism, Sikhism, Buddhism are basically heresies instead of separate religions. But in game Buddhism is considered a separate faith than Hinduism/Sikhism

Confucian is a religion not a philosophy in eu4 so just gotta roll with it

5. If a Christian nation unites all of the Indian subcontinent, add formable tag India with High tolerance of Heathens (like the Indian Sultanates) inplace of Bharat or Hindustan

You either have EIC exist from the first province lease, or you don't and its always in as a trade company province which ignores heathens

6. Recent buffs to HRE and Rome , Bharat ideas should be buffed as Hindustan can go on blobbing Muslim territories in the west without needing to convert the Heathens) whereas Bharat is Hindu and has no such blobbing potential and idea sets are poor

No, HRE and Rome idea buffs was catch up with Europe 1.30 tags, we dont need even more power creep

7. Indian sultanates (eg Bengal) if switched to Hinduism (which is very practical as all the provinces are Hindu) the mission tree gets broken. So an alternate path will be fun for roleplaying. Also very few events and flavors for Hindu nations except the generic 2 or 3 for the big 4 nations

You can ignore dharmic provinces with a estate privliege, staying Muslim means better ae. Also they're all sultanates and the missions are to follow the ideals and goals of said sultanates so no surprising aspotasising breaks the game

Hope the dev team reads and gives an update on my suggestion as it would make the region more fun (not just Mughals)

Having hindus make mandelas more often would be better

 

[necro84]

@AvengedK1ng 2. only Majapahit, Sunda and Khmer have access to mission that unlocks Buddha as diety. In 1.32 it was possible to use event and get Buddha but it was fixed as a bug

 

[Kapi96]

1. No, that would crazy OP. No need to further buff already strong countries.

2. I'd definitely be happy if Buddha was available to more Hindu countries.

4. I really don't think Hindusim and Buddhism are part of the same religion. They should definitely remain separate from Buddhism.

5. Seems pointless. Any Christian nation conquering India will probably be based outside India, so them forming an Indian country would just be silly. Can you imagine say, France, forming India? It would be absurd.

6. huh? Hindu is probably the strongest religion in the game for blobbing right now. Bharat has plenty of blobbing potential and the ideas are fantastic too!

 

[Darsara]

Christian nation holding it would be more equivalent to the british raj. It was based on superiority of the british race rather than dominance of religion hence it would be more accurate to give it more tolerance of heathens unlike Bahamanis and some other Indian sultanates which historically were not tolerant towards the majority Hindus

The Portuguese attempted the Goa inquisition to convert the people to Catholicism.



And really, why would every Christian suddenly just change their tune when they got to India? Would this even happen to a non-European Christian, like Ethiopia or Japan? Or an Indian nation that gets converted to Christianity?

 

[Nostalgium]

The only buff Bahrat needs is a cooler flag and better colour. At least stylize the Aum in a cool way or something. It's so sad to go from [Insert your Hindu nation of choice here except maybe Nagaur] to Bahrat and see your flag become Yet Another Tricolor. And I know, I know, it's the flag of India, but tricolors just feel so soulless to me compared to all the heraldric flags. And that green. I swear, someone at PDX has an unhealthy obsession with that colour. You could conceivably have Italy > Ottomans > Persia > Bahrat > Ayutthaya dominating their respective regions and end up with an unbroken chain of misc. shades of green from Rome to Prome!

Stylize the Aum and make Bahrat orange, and they're perfect.

 

[AvengedK1ng]

Christian nation holding it would be more equivalent to the british raj. It was based on superiority of the british race rather than dominance of religion hence it would be more accurate to give it more tolerance of heathens unlike Bahamanis and some other Indian sultanates which historically were not tolerant towards the majority Hindus

Whats your ref for intolerance towards hindus?

 

[Retrac910]

You could conceivably have Italy > Ottomans > Persia > Bahrat > Ayutthaya dominating their respective regions and end up with an unbroken chain of misc. shades of green from Rome to Prome!

Agree wholeheartedly. Don’t forget Russia and Arabia in that salad mix.
My first mp game had me as Russia and a player Arabia w/ non player Ottomans and Persia mixed in between.
there are far too many end game green tags

 

[Nostalgium]

Agree wholeheartedly. Don’t forget Russia and Arabia in that salad mix.
My first mp game had me as Russia and a player Arabia w/ non player Ottomans and Persia mixed in between.
there are far too many end game green tags

I deliberately didn't include them because they aren't neccessary for T H E L I N E, but they sure don't help the case of green tags.

The worst thing is that Bharat isn't even neccessary. Both Mughals and Delhi - more likely tags - are both also green.

 

[grandadmiralbob]

That isn't a list of things to make India more accurate, it's a list of buffs. Why buff Hindustan/Bharat? Once you own that, the world is yours. Why make it easier?

 

[Vin55]

The Portuguese attempted the Goa inquisition to convert the people to Catholicism.



And really, why would every Christian suddenly just change their tune when they got to India? Would this even happen to a non-European Christian, like Ethiopia or Japan? Or an Indian nation that gets converted to Christianity?

They did succeed too tbf, even today there is a large minority (the new settlers coming from elsewhere changed the Christian majority there). I do think though that you should be able to get a Trade Union Vasall, who conquers the land for you, the Indians should be less stable and more rebellions should hite the lands, destabilising the region. The mughals for what they achieved are way to op, for controlling 2/3 of India twice and then after the death of the ruler dying to rebeliions. Nerf them, I do think though that a Muslim/Hindu choice for the sultanas should be there, but also for the Ottomans, as it would be logical to adapt to the local faith for both turks.

 

[Lord Sheogorath]

It is strange that Indian Hindu rulers can not worship Buddha while India is the birthplace of Buddhism and has many Buddhist holy sites and monuments, while south-east Asian Hindu rulers can. No other religion get its mechanics locked behind starting location and tag. Some proposed solutions:

1. Make the Buddha deity available to Indian Hindus if a cathedral is built in Pataliputra (one of the Buddhist holy sites in game). This ensures that Buddha is locked till mid-late game.

2. Create a new estate privilege modifying the existing 'Choose Personal Deity' privilege which unlocks if a Indian Hindu country conquers a Buddhist province that allows for the use of Buddha, like Indian Muslims can swap Brahmins estate for Dhimmi. The privilege disallows conversion of Buddhist provinces (like 'Guarantee Dhimmi Autonomy').

I would also like to hear any other suggestions.

 

[necro84]

@Lord Sheogorath maybe instead of cathedral it can be related to monument at tier 3? Cathedral is cheap building but it's late. Monument can be upgraded earlier but at greater cost

 

[Lord Sheogorath]

@Lord Sheogorath maybe instead of cathedral it can be related to monument at tier 3? Cathedral is cheap building but it's late. Monument can be upgraded earlier but at greater cost

Well, there is no appropriate Buddhist monuments in the Pataliputra province. There are 'The Ellora Caves' monuments which is a Hindu-Buddhist syncretic monument.
Or maybe add a new monument 'Bodh Gaya' or 'Mahabodhi Temple'. But adding Buddha as an estate privilege will be easier.

 

[Raven100]

Very good suggestions. I feel conquering 5 buddhist provinces lead to an event giving buddha as a personal deity

 

[Raven100]

Also the Hindu faith severely lacks flavors, events. Addition of new deities wont be bad either