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th3freakie

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So I started that Brazil game I wanted to. VIP:R with all the fixes 'nstuff.

First off, I have a war in my hands, ok then. But the event telling me about it seems to have triggered a surrender. Lucky lukcy me. So now I check my moonies screen and I see a daily profit of some ~7. I decide to alocate some litle more to education.
Troops are sent to deal with the rebelion in the north.

And sudently my moonies come crashing down, i'm loosing some 170 a day! :eek: ...and then I have a 3 profit. ...and then I'm losing 80. what gives?
Is it me letting the computer handle the market?

Also, why is it that all my provinces say "no serious crimes" and then I get a jump for "corruption grows rampant"?

And why can't I colonize the last piece of the Amazon? Says I need some resources and... something about live ratio? :confused:

Me confused a bit.
 

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th3freakie said:
And sudently my moonies come crashing down, i'm loosing some 170 a day! :eek: ...and then I have a 3 profit. ...and then I'm losing 80. what gives?
Is it me letting the computer handle the market?

Yes. Yes it is. Turn it off now! :eek: :eek:


I don't use VIP myself so I don't know about VIP related stuff, but to colonize you need to research techs that lower the life rating threshold at which you can colonize. I don't know which techs those are in VIP.
 

th3freakie

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beowulf said:
Yes. Yes it is. Turn it off now! :eek: :eek:

Will do. But then what should I buy? For exemple, I know I need my capitalists to build factories for me (and I need factories to expand the colonies) but how much goods do I need to stockpile via the market for them to do so? (besides their need for money)
 

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th3freakie said:
Will do. But then what should I buy? For exemple, I know I need my capitalists to build factories for me (and I need factories to expand the colonies) but how much goods do I need to stockpile via the market for them to do so? (besides their need for money)

Capitalists only need money to be able to build.
 

th3freakie

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Ah, wonderfull! :)

What's the best way to achieve that then? Lower their taxes? Expand basic RGOs and wait for POPs to move into them?
 

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th3freakie said:
.

And sudently my moonies come crashing down, i'm loosing some 170 a day! :eek: ...and then I have a 3 profit. ...and then I'm losing 80. what gives?
Is it me letting the computer handle the market?.

Yes, do not let the computer handle the market.

Import only what you need in the short run to keep any factories running (though as Brazil you start with nothing so not an issue), and set everything you produce to export. POP income is based on the amount of exports you produce, so to export is to live.

In the early years only buy things if you really, really need them. Playing a less developed nation means you need to build yourself up first before you can really begin to flex your muscles. Part of that is building up a nest egg.

And when it comes to industrialization, note that in VIP you do not start with knowledge of all the basic factories that exist in 1836, and you will get inventions that will "discover them" for you. This creates a problem with the capitalist internal building logic in that sometimes the system will want the capis to build a factory that you do not have the knowledge for, and thus the capis reserve income will be wasted when the game tries to build the factory.

My recommendation - hold off having capis do the building of rail and factory until you have developed a basic infrastructure and becoming an exporting powerhouse. Build the first level (and I'd argue, the second level as well) of railways yourself as the state - this will greatly improve not only the efficiency of production of raw material exports (and thus increase your export income) but make the factories that eventually do get built all the more efficient and profitable as well.

the other thing to focus on - education. Clerk pops become much more effective in terms of their boost to production the higher your literacy rate is. Also, since you start behind in the tech race, you need to make investments in education to help catch up to the more advanced powers.

As for the colonization issue, in Revolutions you can only colonize a province if you have the ability to colonize provinces above a certain threshold. At the start of the game all nations start with the ability to colonize unclaimed lands with a life rating above 30. There are 4 techs/inventions that lower this threshold allowing the colonization of lower life rating lands. This ensures that nations do not go on colonization sprees in the first ten years of the game, as what used to happen pre-Revolutions. Now colonization is truly a race (though in VIP we pretty much ditched that model in favor of directly dealing with native African political entities, which better models the nature of colonization in this era). The Western Amazon, being an area where there was very little State influence until the late 19th C, is a similar case and thus you will be in a race with other neighboring LatAm nations to get the techs/inventions needed to complete the colonization and claim the land. Brazil gets a head start by having a couple claim buildings already, but there is always teh chance that Colombia or Peru might slip into that empty province if you ignore the need to research the techs necessary to colonize that unclaimed province.
 

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th3freakie said:
Ah, wonderfull! :)

What's the best way to achieve that then? Lower their taxes? Expand basic RGOs and wait for POPs to move into them?

Maximize exports via improving efficiency of infrastructure and minimize the amount of income you take from the high class POPs in the form of taxes and tariffs.

One caveat, slave-owning societies do NOT immigrants in more than a trickle, that is one of the biggest turnoffs in the game engine's calculations of where emigrants will end up. There is a scripted event chain to end Brazilian slavery at the historical time of 1889 and IIRC a couple of earlier events that allow slavery to be ended ahistorically (it would be the B choice of the event).
 

th3freakie

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Bless thee o Great OHGamer, Patron Saint of Victoria Newbies. We the lost and confused ones praise and glorify Thee!


(here seen explaining the mechanics of immigration)

Some follow up questions:

Saint OHGamer said:
Import only what you need in the short run to keep any factories running (though as Brazil you start with nothing so not an issue), and set everything you produce to export. POP income is based on the amount of exports you produce, so to export is to live.
Just to be sure - I should then go to the market screen and set everything I produce and don't use to sell>0 right?

My recommendation - hold off having capis do the building of rail and factory until you have developed a basic infrastructure and becoming an exporting powerhouse. Build the first level (and I'd argue, the second level as well) of railways yourself as the state - this will greatly improve not only the efficiency of production of raw material exports (and thus increase your export income) but make the factories that eventually do get built all the more efficient and profitable as well.
1) Can I even do that with Brazil's starting political system, or must I change to a diferent one? If so, how can I do that?

2) How widespread should these railroads be and how can I get the ressources for them (buying in the world market?)

the other thing to focus on - education. Clerk pops become much more effective in terms of their boost to production the higher your literacy rate is. Also, since you start behind in the tech race, you need to make investments in education to help catch up to the more advanced powers.
I tried converting some labourers to clerks, but then noticed they didn't have anywhere to work, since I don't have any factories anyway. Or capitalists for that matter.
Will capis pop up (amazing pun) on their own, or must I somehow create them? Is there any point in having clerks before having factories?

I'm investing a lot in education anyway, since I just feel benevolent and enlightened :D
 

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th3freakie said:
Bless thee o Great OHGamer, Patron Saint of Victoria Newbies. We the lost and confused ones praise and glorify Thee!


(here seen explaining the mechanics of immigration)

:D

Some follow up questions:

Just to be sure - I should then go to the market screen and set everything I produce and don't use to sell>0 right?

yes, and then if later you need to keep some of the goods in your stockpile to do things like create military units or build railways, change those levels to sell > 5 or whatever so you have enough in the stockpile to do what you want to do and the rest is exported.

1) Can I even do that with Brazil's starting political system, or must I change to a diferent one? If so, how can I do that?

As long as you have a political party with interventionism, state capitalism or planned economy as its economic policy, you as the state can build railways. Only parties with laissez-faire prevent the state from building railways. IIRC BRZ starts with an interventionist party, so you should be fine.

2) How widespread should these railroads be and how can I get the ressources for them (buying in the world market?)

I would definitely build railways in every large POP state (Bahia, Rio, Sao Paulo, Minas Gerais) and in provinces in other states that produce good export crops like Sugar and Coffee. They should be your first priority.

you get the goods you need by setting the market order for those needed goods to buy < X, so if for example you want to get machine parts, set the buy order to buy < 10, and the game will import in up to 10 machine parts for your use, provided there is a surplus on the world market large enough for you to access given your overall ranking in game. Early in game you may have to wait a few years until other nations produce the goods in quantities that create a surplus you can access given your national rank.

One other point to understand, your POPs get their needs filled from the World Market, not from your stockpiles, so do NOT horde goods POPs need for their needs to be filled. If you produce those goods they need, when you send them out to the world market, your POPs get the first opportunity to buy them, without having to pay tariffs on them (reflecting the internal market for that good).

I tried converting some labourers to clerks, but then noticed they didn't have anywhere to work, since I don't have any factories anyway. Or capitalists for that matter.
Will capis pop up (amazing pun) on their own, or must I somehow create them? Is there any point in having clerks before having factories?

I'm investing a lot in education anyway, since I just feel benevolent and enlightened :D

No capis do not create on their own, you will have to create them when you feel your nation is ready to move to the industrialization stage of its economic development. As for clerks, until the Darwinism event your clerks produce the same amount of research points as clergymen, so really you do not need clerks if you are pre-industrial. Clergymen also help reduce militancy among peasants and labourers, so having them around can help keep the masses in check while you work to transform Brazil into a major exporter, which will then provide the income needed for your capis to eventually launch Brazil into industrialization.

Keep in mind, Victoria is not a sprint, it's a marathon. Do not race to be first in industry or military as fast as you can. Introducing major changes to the structure of your society too quickly before your society matures politicially (in the form of rising plurality) and becomes stable and calm in terms of militancy can lead to a major amount of political grief in the long run.

Check out my AAR i've linked in my sig if you have not already - it's based on playing Prussia but much of the advice on handling the economy is apropos to all nations.
 

th3freakie

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OHgamer said:
No capis do not create on their own, you will have to create them when you feel your nation is ready to move to the industrialization stage of its economic development.
Okis. I understand I'll still have to wait a lot for that. So another question is - how do I create them then? From Aristocrats? Clerks? :confused:

Check out my AAR i've linked in my sig if you have not already - it's based on playing Prussia but much of the advice on handling the economy is apropos to all nations.
I did actualy, but truth be told I don't really learn anything unless I'm playing and having the problems in front of me :eek:o I'll re-read it after some 50 game years and I'll probably understand it then.

Ok, one more question - where do I see who is the King/President? Does he influence the nation in any way?

edit: Ho! And since I have some moonies now, should I spend some in expanding RGOs? If I do will POPs move to the provinces they're needed in or do I have to move them? or should I only expand where there are extra POPs already (wich is no-where as far as I can see)?
 

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th3freakie said:
Okis. I understand I'll still have to wait a lot for that. So another question is - how do I create them then? From Aristocrats? Clerks? :confused:

You create them from clerks.

I did actualy, but truth be told I don't really learn anything unless I'm playing and having the problems in front of me :eek:o I'll re-read it after some 50 game years and I'll probably understand it then.

Ok, one more question - where do I see who is the King/President? Does he influence the nation in any way?

You're the king/president. The political parties represent the dominant political class, but in the end it's you who are the leader of the nation. You might have to cohabitate with a government your POPs vote into power you don't like, or you might be ruling with parties you like. Except for democracies, you can change the ruling party at will outside elections (though this will piss the POPs off, producing a +1.00 militancy hit every time you put a new party in power outside of an election). To change party in power, open up the politics screen from the main section and click "set as ruling party", which should be lit up for those parties that are not currently in power.
 

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th3freakie said:
edit: Ho! And since I have some moonies now, should I spend some in expanding RGOs? If I do will POPs move to the provinces they're needed in or do I have to move them? or should I only expand where there are extra POPs already (wich is no-where as far as I can see)?

In general, POPs in the Americas are very reluctant to move to other RGO provinces unless they have no financial reserves of their own. So expanding RGOs will not do anything to encourage internal migration. Really you only need to expand an RGO if it is already full and one of the POPs is big enough to split so that you'd need an additional RGO level to add the new POP.

Especially for the Americas, the best way to improve RGOs is infrastructure and technological research, which will improve production efficiency. So invest in railways and in education to research techs in commerce and industry to improve the RGOs.
 

th3freakie

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So spliting POPs is a good way to get more of them? Cool.

Moonies is silly netspeak for "money". Pay to attention to it :eek:o
 

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th3freakie said:
So spliting POPs is a good way to get more of them? Cool.
Yep, the way POPs work it is much better to have many smaller ones than a few larger ones.

From the wiki

POP production efficiency by size Headcount Efficiency
1 – 499-----------33% efficiency
500 – 19,999------50% efficiency
20,000 – 49,999---75% efficiency
50,000 – 100,000 -100% efficiency

http://www.paradoxian.org/vickywiki/index.php/Industrialization#POPs_and_how_they_affect_production

So with a 60K POP you could have 1 POP working 1 100% efficiency or split it and have a 40K and a 20K, which means 2 POPs working at 75% efficiency.
 

th3freakie

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I ask them as they come, again my apologies:

Uruguai is a big friend by now. I'd like to one day anex them, but so far I rather they side with me then Argentina. Is there any path for diplo-anexation?

Also, it seems I'm beeing very unlucky with railroads, and haven't had the chance to research them at all. I have however researched enough into market tech to be able to build a whole bunch of factories. Out of all the sugary options, my only capitalist POP went with a lumber mill...
Anyway, my question is if having a factory before railroads will hurt me?

Finaly, the Liberals won the first elections I had, so I can't build RR without forcing them out. Plus they had a bunch of favourable events right after it, so I doubt they'll be kicked out anytime soon.
Should I give conservative plebs the vote or just ride it out?
 

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No, you can't diplo-annex or diplo-satellite.

Railroads increase the efficiency of RGOs and factories, having a factory without railroads will decrease the profit of that factory.

I would've kept with the liberals. If you have researched Ideological Thought, you will get 5 events giving you a total of 25 plurality if you have a liberal party in power. If you get a conservative party in power you will lose 25 plurality. Since plurality is the key factor for immigration and you are in the Americas, I would avoid a conservative party in power at all costs. The socialists also give you plus 25 plurality.
 

th3freakie

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Well Hurrah Hurrah! The Liberals won the second elections, events greatly increased plurality, I've increased the strenght of the Parliament enough to become a Parlimentarian based regime, humiliated Argentina with a couple of diplomatic moves regarding Paraguay, allied with Uruguay, increased the Navy, created two capitalists and they busy busy did this:



Only 3 factories though, and truth be told I've run out of "extra" POPs to convert into crafstmen. Should I wait for slavery to end and immigration to fill the gap, or just sacrifice the tobaco plantations in São Paulo and Bahia in favour of turning their farmers/labourers into craftsmen?

Also, how can I use that money, preferably to increase prestige and research capacity?
 

Eärendil

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Compare the income you get from the plantations to what they would make in a factory. Remember that promoting POPs to clerks increase your research point generation.

You can't really do much with the money when it comes to research and prestige. Research is based on the modifier for each class and how much they make out of your total population. To max research point generation, promote as many POPs of your national culture to clerks (preferably) or clergymen. For example in my Tibetan AAR, I made 98% of my national population clergymen to counter the uncivilized research penalty.

When it comes to prestige, you pretty much only get prestige from events (which are usually tied to techs) and winning wars. There's not much you can do with money. You also get some prestige each year from defense spending and such.