monopoly structure = gamekiller ?

[unmerged(14078)]

I just got the monopoly structure plague as Prussia. Suddenly the cost for colonizing and building new factories doubles. Since i wanted to colonize a lot this time, the game is more or less over and it's time for a restart.

I also wanted a steamer factory: cash = 40000, machine_parts = 40 --> (machine part cost at least 300 the last years) --> 52'000 £

Is it just me or is that "invention" too harsh?

I'm playing 1.03 with Dereks pop needs mod...

 

[unmerged(760)]

i know your pain. im stuck with monopoly the first time as well. a plane factory for 400.000L *lol*. but i also have got an incredibly high industry rating (~12.000) with only ~90 (well expanded) factories, some of them level 10+ . now im big, but this is awesome, never had that before. in a comparable 1.02 game i could only get an industry rating of about 4000. this could also be affected by changes made in 1.03 though. but if its the monopoly-structre this is a BIG PLUS!

 

[OriginalRafiki]

I don't think it's gamekilling.

Just make sure you have a fair "spread" of factories, both wrt location and to type, before the poly-inventions fire. If it's monopoly (or even oligopoly), you can expand your existing factories cheaply, if it's polypoly, you can keep on spreading.

It will make the factories arriving after that expensive, such as barrels and telephones and whatnot, but you usually don't build that many of those anyway, and expanding them afterwards will be cheaper with monopoly.

In any case, there is little effort needed to tone down the effects of the invention if you think it's too severe.

Rafiki

 

[unmerged(3921)]

I actually prefer NOT to get polypoly. By the middle of the game most of the factories I build are expansions, not greenfield builds. Only at the very end of the game when the new factory types become available do I resume building level 1 factories. And by that time cost is really less of a factor.

 

[unmerged(8351)]

It really kills in the colonizations department too. I think it should be toned down in line with the other two. Unless of course which one you get is tied to your government type or something. In which case its just the cost of staying an absolute monarchy.

 

[Darkrenown]

Is it totally random? I always seem to get monopoly.

 

[egross]

Well, if it kills colonization, that's the penalty you evil imperialists rightly suffer, now, isn't it? You oppressors of other peoples you. Play a virtuous democratic respoector of other people's yards, like the US, for example.

It's a pain, but I haven't found it a game-killer. Usually by the time it shows up I've got a large and varied industrial economy, and at least a couple of hundred thousand in the treasury. It's annoying, but no more so than say, maintaining and upgrading one million mouseclick railway networks. By late game, as well (and as mentioned) I'm usually expanding far more than building from the ground up, and it only really hurts for electric gear / telephones / automobiles / airplanes / tanks. Except for electric gear and maybe telephones, I usually only build one factory of those anyway.

And, it appears genuinely random to me. Ultimate rule of statistics, I guess -- someboy has to be the outlier

 

[unmerged(26608)]

Long time lurker, first time poster.

I'd suggest that

A) The player be allowed to pick which of the three structures they want. There's some naval invention that allows this type of thing. Likewise with the whole aristocracy vs. meritocracy, populism vs. establishmentarianism.

B) The changes in factory costs not apply to colonial buildings or forts. IMHO, much like railroads, these buildings should have their own separate cost modifiers.

But yes, I usually postpone researching Market Structure until I've built a healthy amount of factories.

 

[OriginalRafiki]

A) The player be allowed to pick which of the three structures they want. There's some naval invention that allows this type of thing.

It's easy-peasy to fix yourself if you'd like. Replace invention 352 in /db/tech/commerce_inventions.txt with this one:

event = {
	id = 352
	random = no
	invention = yes

	picture = marketfunctionality

	trigger = {
		technology = 3302
	}

	name = "CHange in corporate structure"
	desc = "As our economy grows, the structure of our nation's corporations changes, into:"
	style = 0

	date = { day = 1 month = january year = 1850 }
	offset = 60 # Check for trigger conditions every 60 days
	deathdate = { day = 30 month = december year = 1860 }

	action_a = {
		name = "Polypoly!" 
		command = { type = factory_cost_mod value = -25 }
		command = { type = capacity_cost_mod value = 10 }
	}

	action_b = {
		name = "Oligopoly!"
		command = { type = factory_cost_mod value = 25 }
		command = { type = capacity_cost_mod value = -10 }
	}

	action_c = {
		name = "Monopoly!"
		command = { type = factory_cost_mod value = 100 }
		command = { type = capacity_cost_mod value = -25 }
	}
}

And make sure to delete 353 and 354.

Rafiki

 

[Fawr]

I don't think that a +100% increase in cost for building new factories makes your country have more monopolies. The main effect is that you have less different types of goods produced. You have to choose between making Phones or Automobiles because you don't have the cash (or some other resource) to make both.

The 25% reduction in the cost of expanding existing factores works well. You have an incentive to expand your steel factory, rather than build another competing steel factory in another state.

The trick is to find another penalty that would make monopoly balanced with the other choices. You could keep the increase cost, but not apply it to the first factory of any type build in the country (so your first steel factory is at normal cost but the others are more expensive). You could put in a efficiency reduction for all factories (monopolies are less efficient, due to reduced competition). I'm sure there are other solutions out there that would better reflect the effects of a monopoly.

Applying the +100% to forts and colonies seems to be a strange effect. There could be a small (10%?) inefficiency (reduced competion increases prices) but any more is going too far.

 

[unmerged(26608)]

name = "Polypoly!"
And make sure to delete 353 and 354.

Rafiki

Thanks for the code-suggestion. And good to know you're so enthusiastic about market structure (Polypoly!)

 

[Crazy_Ivan80]

I just got the monopoly structure plague as Prussia. Suddenly the cost for colonizing and building new factories doubles. Since i wanted to colonize a lot this time, the game is more or less over and it's time for a restart.

I also wanted a steamer factory: cash = 40000, machine_parts = 40 --> (machine part cost at least 300 the last years) --> 52'000 £

Is it just me or is that "invention" too harsh?

I'm playing 1.03 with Dereks pop needs mod...

bleh, with prussia you can make a 200 £ profit a day within the first year of playing. paying of 150.000 £ debts is easy, so paying 40.000 £ for a steamer factory is peanuts

 

[OriginalRafiki]

Thanks for the code-suggestion. And good to know you're so enthusiastic about market structure (Polypoly!)

What's not to be enthusiastic about? It's corporate restructering we're talking about here!!

And I don't discriminate either, since it's "Oligopoly!" and "Monopoly!" as well

Rafiki

 

[unmerged(24903)]

What's not to be enthusiastic about? It's corporate restructering we're talking about here!!

And I don't discriminate either, since it's "Oligopoly!" and "Monopoly!" as well

Rafiki

Just found this thread from searching, and I wanted to say "Thanks"! I usually felt screwed by when this event came around, and I agree w/ MisterKurtz suggestion that its better to allow the player to pick.

Kudos both to Rafiki for providing the insight and code sample, and the designers for making such a nicely scripted engine!

 

[Lamprey]

Monopoly structure rocks, I don't think it deserver half the bellyaching people give it. Building multiple lvl 1 factories is a poor mid-late game strategy. You should plan your industry from the ground up, concentrate the base industries (lumber, steel, fabric, cement) in 1-2 states each and then concentrate the more refined ones in a similar fashion. Depending on the country you're playing you may be making a lot of clothing, furniture, luxuries, steamers etc.; but plan it out in advance as well.

This way, after the year 1850 95% of your factories built are expansions of existing ones. Some of the benefits here are building at 1/2 the cost, being able to concentrate capitalists for maximum efficiency, better industrial score and tighter control of your industry. Want to shut down clothing production and switch it to, say, telephone gear when it becomes more profitable? No problem, build then expand telephone factories right next to your clothing ones and shuffle workers across as they're built. Easy, and the capitalists are already in place.

Monopoly structure is a godsend for countries which do not traditionally make their fortune chiefly through colonization like Austria, Russia, Prussia, the US. Yes, they can colonize and monopoly hurts them there, but they'll benefit much more by investing in their already populous domains at home so that they're able to flex their muscles later and take any colonies the need from others around them.