Mongol Empire Scenario 0.3

[Birger]

OMG! Birger, I love you!


EDIT:

1) if you're interested you can follow our old discussion on graphics in this therad at Languish.

2) Some CoA in your screenshot are weird or not historically correct for 1150, but I suppose that's just a test.

It's nice to be loved.

Yup, this is more of a test screenie.

Btw, what shields are you thinking of, Navarre and Bohemia?

 

[unmerged(8606)]

Btw, what shields are you thinking of, Navarre and Bohemia?

Well, yes! But also Provence, which in 1150 was still ruled by a branch of the House of Barcelona.

In fact I have a problem with Aragon, Rosselló and Provence, as the three were ruled by branches of the Barcelona dinasty, and as heraldry in 1150 was still in its infancy, let alone brisures to distinguish among various branches, the three countries would have the same CoA.

* Aragon should have gold four pallets gules as CoA and gold four strips gules as flag. Period.
* Provence could get as his flag gold four palets gules (inverse of Aragon), that for sure. And then for CoA maybe gold four strips gules.
* Rosselló it's a problem. I like the solution you adopted for his CoA, but it's the same as the one I thought for Provence. Maybe we should get slightly ahistorical and introduce a brisure or something for provence, just for gaming sake!

 

[Sire Philippe]

Very impressive !



Already a humble demand...

BJ, could you make for Anjou this blason :

rather than the old we have let in the mod ?

 

[hildoceras]

I sea you have two kinds of shields : the old EU one (in Dalmatia for instance) and the new one. Couldn't you use one for Catalunya and the other for Provence ?
i'm not sure, but I think CK use the same cheat.

 

[Birger]

Well, yes! But also Provence, which in 1150 was still ruled by a branch of the House of Barcelona.

In fact I have a problem with Aragon, Rosselló and Provence, as the three were ruled by branches of the Barcelona dinasty, and as heraldry in 1150 was still in its infancy, let alone brisures to distinguish among various branches, the three countries would have the same CoA.

* Aragon should have gold four pallets gules as CoA and gold four strips gules as flag. Period.
* Provence could get as his flag gold four palets gules (inverse of Aragon), that for sure. And then for CoA maybe gold four strips gules.
* Rosselló it's a problem. I like the solution you adopted for his CoA, but it's the same as the one I thought for Provence. Maybe we should get slightly ahistorical and introduce a brisure or something for provence, just for gaming sake!

Bohemia, Navarre, Sicily and Sachsen are just for personal use. And I like to keep this great mod apart from the GC so I use shields used in the beginning of the time-period, looks historical.

Ah yes, we had some problems with those for GUFSM, remember?

Perhaps something from here could be used for Provence?

 

[Birger]

Very impressive !



Already a humble demand...

BJ, could you make for Anjou this blason :

rather than the old we have let in the mod ?

Thanks Philippe!

Sure thing, I'll do that, gotta finish some other shields first... :wacko:

Cool!!!! Thanks, BJ

Looks pretty good.

Btw, what is this Arelate, haven't found the source image you use...

 

[hildoceras]

Bohemia, Navarre, Sicily and Sachsen are just for personal use. And I like to keep this great mod apart from the GC so I use shields used in the beginning of the time-period, looks historical.

Ah yes, we had some problems with those for GUFSM, remember?

Perhaps something from here could be used for Provence?

this picture shows that in 1150 Provence was shared between the house of Catalunya (gold and four red strips) and the house of Toulouse (red with a gold occitan cross -that has 4 EQUAL branches, it is not so evident on your map ... o )
The "Comté de Provence" has left its blason to the contemporary Provence province. The "Comté de Toulouse" has left its own to the contemporary Toulouse province (Midi-Pyrénées)

Maybe you could use the Forcalquier blason that is close to the Provence blason (but different, but so different ... red with three gold strips)

 

[Kaigon]

Btw, what is this Arelate, haven't found the source image you use...

IIRC, they used the city of Arles:
http://www.ngw.nl/int/fra/a/images/arles.jpg
found it on INTERNATION Civic Heraldry site
(I used that one myself in the IES)

 

[unmerged(8606)]

IIRC, they used the city of Arles:
http://www.ngw.nl/int/fra/a/images/arles.jpg
found it on INTERNATION Civic Heraldry site
(I used that one myself in the IES)

Exactly, we have not any better source, so we choose just the CoA of Arles. Not historically correct, sure, but we were completely lost on that thing...

 

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The house of Toulouse (red with a gold occitan cross -that has 4 EQUAL branches, it is not so evident on your map ... o )

Yes, it seems that Birger Jarl has used a traditional depiction of the occitan cross widely found in seals:

Although it was used for aesthetical reasons (to fit better in the typical almond-shaped shields of the 12th century), heraldically the occitanian cross should have four equal branches. Nevertheless, not so important as in 1150 heraldry was not well established yet.

 

[Birger]

It's only a test-screenie people.

I got the correct arms for Toulouse as well, that one is just the Languedoc version for the 1.08 shields. Just liked the way it looked.

EDIT:

Did some research for Arelate, just for the fun of it. But now I'm confused... :wacko:

Arles (ancient Arelas or Arelate)
During the first century BC, Arelas, as the city was then called, emerged as one of the chief commercial centers of the Roman Empire. An episcopal see from the 4th century until 1790, it was the site of several important ecclesiastical councils, including the Council of Arles (314), which condemned Donatism, a heretical Christian movement. After the collapse (476 AD) of the Roman Empire of the West, Arles was seized by the Visigoths and then by the Ostrogoths (see Goths). In 730, while ruled by the Merovingian dynasty, it was plundered by Muslim invaders. In 879 Arles was made the seat of the kingdom of Provence, and in 933 it became the capital of the kingdom of Arles, more often called the kingdom of Bourgogne. After 1246, it was included in Provence.

 

[unmerged(8606)]

Did some research for Arelate, just for the fun of it. But now I'm confused... :wacko:

Arles (ancient Arelas or Arelate)
During the first century BC, Arelas, as the city was then called, emerged as one of the chief commercial centers of the Roman Empire. An episcopal see from the 4th century until 1790, it was the site of several important ecclesiastical councils, including the Council of Arles (314), which condemned Donatism, a heretical Christian movement. After the collapse (476 AD) of the Roman Empire of the West, Arles was seized by the Visigoths and then by the Ostrogoths (see Goths). In 730, while ruled by the Merovingian dynasty, it was plundered by Muslim invaders. In 879 Arles was made the seat of the kingdom of Provence, and in 933 it became the capital of the kingdom of Arles, more often called the kingdom of Bourgogne. After 1246, it was included in Provence.

Well, the kingdom of Burgundy (not to be confused with the duchy of Burgundy) was just one of the kingdoms of the HRE, like the kingdom of Italy and the kingdom of Germany. As was the case with the kingdom of Italy, its "kingdomness" was very loose and soon its counties and duchies became independent de facto although being all of them theorically vassals of the Emperor.

Provence was indeed a county inside the kingdom of Arles (or kingdom of Burgundy) but by 1150 nearly independent, so we choose to make it a separate country. In fact we could have made Arelate splitted from the beginning in Savoie, Dauphiné and Franche-Comté (or county of Burgundy) and it would be even more historically correct, but gamewise was better to have a relatively strong state in the zone. Sire Philippe is working on the problem and creating the events which will split Arelate.

The lands that will later be known as Burgundy proper were then the duchy of Burgundy (outside HRE borders) and the county of Burgundy or Franche-COmté (inside HRE borders).

Mmmhhh I don't know if I'm very clear o

 

[hildoceras]

if the servor hadn't been busy i would have said it less clearly

Looking for more infos about Provence I found two sources (amateurs not historians) telling that the symbol of the Bosonid family (kings of Burgundy-Arelate and sometimes other places) was the occitan cross but without colors. It seems that the marriage of Emma de Provence with Guillaume Taillefer de St Gilles-Toulouse sent the symbol to the Toulouse family.
So the symbol of the Kingdom of Burgundy-Arelate could have been the occitan cross (without colors ) except that the last male died in 1032 and the title went to the german emperors.
Incidently, the emperor Frederic Barberousse (Redbeard ??? edit : Barbarossa !) made a political show in 1178, being crowned King of Arelate in the very city of Arles, just to remind people fighting here that Provence was a land of the Empire.

 

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So the symbol of the Kingdom of Burgundy-Arelate could have been the occitan cross (without colors ) except that the last male died in 1032 and the title went to the german emperors.

It could be an option. Of course it won't be the CoA of the regnal family but could be linked with that territory. So the CoA would be on white (argent) an occitanian cross black... not very beautiful, but it could be better that the city of Arles' CoA.

 

[Birger]

Well, the kingdom of Burgundy (not to be confused with the duchy of Burgundy) was just one of the kingdoms of the HRE, like the kingdom of Italy and the kingdom of Germany. As was the case with the kingdom of Italy, its "kingdomness" was very loose and soon its counties and duchies became independent de facto although being all of them theorically vassals of the Emperor.

Mmmhhh I don't know if I'm very clear o

Thanks mfigueras! My misstake, I thought of the duchy of Burgundy... o

Btw, you explained it perfect.

 

[Judge]

To all involved in this project. Fantastic work! Just loaded the latest version and started playing the Roman Empire. I haven’t been this thrilled since I started playing EU 2 many years ago. This is way better than CK!

I saw there is some missing info on the Cholas. If you like I might be able to write something since I am currently reading about Indian history during the middle ages.

Cheers

 

[unmerged(8606)]

To all involved in this project. Fantastic work! Just loaded the latest version and started playing the Roman Empire. I haven’t been this thrilled since I started playing EU 2 many years ago. This is way better than CK!

Thanks, Judge

I saw there is some missing info on the Cholas. If you like I might be able to write something since I am currently reading about Indian history during the middle ages.

Of course, we still need all the help available to make this mod even better You can post your suggestions here or visit our fora at Languish.

 

[unmerged(8606)]

@ Judge: I forgot: can we expect an AAR with the Scenario?

 

[unmerged(2150)]

Really nice scenario, thanks for your effort!

When I played 1205, I have found that that scenario crashes if province 439 (Toledo) changes owner. Problem is that this province is assigned in scenario setup to both CAS and U03 (Almohads).

In 1205 scenario I also noticed that almost al catholic crusader states are switching their religion to orthodox due to new religions setup.
Maybe if add line like:
changedreligion = { year = 1419 month = january day = 0 }
to each such country it would prevent religion changing for AI.

 

[Judge]

@ Judge: I forgot: can we expect an AAR with the Scenario?

I think so. If I will get enough time to write a new AAR I will definitely try a MES AAR. The Naimans perhaps? will not be a long AAR I guess