Monarch System

[unmerged(20077)]

Hmmmm... one thing strikes me about the randomness argument which goes, "The moment you start the game you change history": in fact if you go for completely random monarchs you may well have changed history before the game starts. If you start in England in 1500, for instance, Henry VII is king and he has two sons; Arthur and Henry. One of three things will happen: either Prince Arthur will die, as happened historically and Henry VIII will succeed, or he won't die and instead become king himself, or both sons will die and random King Reginald or Queen Tracey will succeed. Now if the Reggie or Tracey are always going to be next in line, you must already have killed Arthur and Henry; they're as historical as Henry VII. What I'd like to see, although it's now all academic anyway, is historical monarchs but with a random bit added, so at some point during the game the historical monarchs are replaced by random ones.

 

[cthulhu]

What I'd like to see, although it's now all academic anyway, is historical monarchs but with a random bit added, so at some point during the game the historical monarchs are replaced by random ones.

That would be very cool indeed. Unfortunately, I don't believe that's the way they have built it.

 

[unmerged(8351)]

OMG this thread is insane. Paradox is going to make a game. They have made certain design decisions. When they want input they ask for it. Many people like the new monarch system, many people don't like it (I use "many" here in the traditional sense of any number greater than say 7). TOUGH

Personally I understand the tension between the MORE REALISTIC handling of of rulers in EU3....(so many different things change over the course of the game the deterministic system was a farce) vs the value in becoming familiar with history and the fun of recognizing and playing as historical monarchs.

But, paradox has made its decision on this issue, let it go. And to argue the EU2 system was a more realstic representation of history is just rediculous.

In the end you can either buy the game, or not buy it, or buy it and mod it (My suspicion is anyone who cares enough to post in this thread is buying within a month of release...if not pre-ordering). This thread needs to be locked, it is going nowhere. A bunch of people arguing that their personal preferences needs to be addressed...sigh

 

[Havard]

For a horse, you write with great wisdom, B

 

[George LeS]

OMG this thread is insane. Paradox is going to make a game. They have made certain design decisions. When they want input they ask for it. Many people like the new monarch system, many people don't like it (I use "many" here in the traditional sense of any number greater than say 7). TOUGH

Personally I understand the tension between the MORE REALISTIC handling of of rulers in EU3....(so many different things change over the course of the game the deterministic system was a farce) vs the value in becoming familiar with history and the fun of recognizing and playing as historical monarchs.

But, paradox has made its decision on this issue, let it go. And to argue the EU2 system was a more realstic representation of history is just rediculous.

In the end you can either buy the game, or not buy it, or buy it and mod it (My suspicion is anyone who cares enough to post in this thread is buying within a month of release...if not pre-ordering). This thread needs to be locked, it is going nowhere. A bunch of people arguing that their personal preferences needs to be addressed...sigh

True enough, the the real question is whether this feature WILL be moddable. I haven't seen any clear indication, one way or the other. Or maybe a very slight sense that the answer is "no".

 

[freesand]

how about adding a "in real history..." in-game panel for comparision, might be a good solution

 

[treedom]

how about adding a "in real history..." in-game panel for comparision, might be a good solution

...or you could have Wikipedia open in your browser and just alt-tab to it once in a while.

 

[unmerged(20077)]

Are there to be no historical monarchs anywhere at all after the game starts, or is it just the player's country that won't get them? Is this feature moddable? Will there be CK-like genetics involved, or will they all be totally random?

 

[unmerged(37697)]

Are there to be no historical monarchs anywhere at all after the game starts, or is it just the player's country that won't get them?

From what I gather, this is correct, yes. After you begin the game on any historical date, you enter the realms of fantasy - ie, your own history, not simply the history we know of.

Is this feature moddable?

Presumably not, as that would require a different game engine (ie, like the one for EUII) and not the new engine being designed for EUIII. IIRC, Johan said a few months ago that whereas balancing the two had at one point been considered, it proved too difficult, and historical monarchs were scrapped.

Will there be CK-like genetics involved, or will they all be totally random?

I very much doubt it. AFAIK, it's more or less all random, with the monarch's name being guided by a percent chance of it being chosen. These can be edited, however, and names can be added or removed.

 

[vertinox]

Presumably not, as that would require a different game engine (ie, like the one for EUII) and not the new engine being designed for EUIII. IIRC, Johan said a few months ago that whereas balancing the two had at one point been considered, it proved too difficult, and historical monarchs were scrapped.

I would however suspect that you could simply write events that sleep and create leaders and force particular leaders at particular times.

As Paradox has said they aren't writing any events that are based on Nation tags and date alone, but I'm assuming that does not preclude that a player could write his own.

Simply create a mode that fires events and forces leaders in a particular name and order!

 

[EUnderhill]

I would however suspect that you could simply write events that sleep and create leaders and force particular leaders at particular times.

As Paradox has said they aren't writing any events that are based on Nation tags and date alone, but I'm assuming that does not preclude that a player could write his own.

Simply create a mode that fires events and forces leaders in a particular name and order!

Yes but what happens when Louis XIV dies for the fifth time, having already prompted two Wars of the French Succession?

 

[unmerged(20077)]

But since you can start at any date, and we're told that the initial monarch is the historical one, there must be a file somewhere that has the historical monarchs...

 

[Registered]

Yes but what happens when Louis XIV dies for the fifth time, having already prompted two Wars of the French Succession?

I don't think you can get two monarchs with the same name and number.

 

[unmerged(37697)]

I don't think you can get two monarchs with the same name and number.

No, you can't.

Here's a table from the Swedish databse:

monarch_names = {
	"Karl #7" = 100
	"Gustav #0" = 20
	"Gustav #0 Adolf" = 20
	"Karl #7 Gustav" = 5
	"Johan #2" = 5
	"Erik #13" = 5
}

 

[EUnderhill]

I don't think you can get two monarchs with the same name and number.

Exactly - so what is a poor modder to do when his "Louis XIV" dies in 1650?

 

[unmerged(18992)]

What if you start the game, say, a day before Henry VIII's death. Seeing there has been so little time for history to be altered, will an Edward V (i think it was V) rise to the throne? or will some random monarch be generated?

 

[unmerged(37697)]

What if you start the game, say, a day before Henry VIII's death. Seeing there has been so little time for history to be altered, will an Edward V (i think it was V) rise to the throne? or will some random monarch be generated?

Edward VI, and I think it'd still be random. Henry VIII could (AFAIK) live another day, or another ten years

 

[unmerged(18992)]

Edward VI, and I think it'd still be random. Henry VIII could (AFAIK) live another day, or another ten years

Even when he was on his deathbed???

and so it was VI, my bad

 

[unmerged(6777)]

Even when he was on his deathbed???

and so it was VI, my bad

All bets are off when the game begins.


When you think of it, if you tried to establish a historical database for the "condition" of each monarch at all possible game launch dates, you'd have ~ 200+ countries * 365 (or 366) days * 300+ years = approximately 22 million situations we would have research and code. If you wanted this data to apply after the game had started, you would need to hold most of that data in memory and consult it daily to see what happened in real life and then compare it to what is happening in the game. Personally, I just don't see that as a reasonable allocation of limited personnel or system resources.

 

[EUnderhill]

All bets are off when the game begins.


When you think of it, if you tried to establish a historical database for the "condition" of each monarch at all possible game launch dates, you'd have ~ 200+ countries * 365 (or 366) days * 300+ years = approximately 22 million situations we would have research and code. If you wanted this data to apply after the game had started, you would need to hold most of that data in memory and consult it daily to see what happened in real life and then compare it to what is happening in the game. Personally, I just don't see that as a reasonable allocation of limited personnel or system resources.

I do hope that the game does consider age of the monarch at the time of coronation, and perhaps whether or not he is "sickly". As for system resources, I would gladly settle for an annual check for monarch death sometime in the year.