Monarch Culture/Religion Divine Wind Request

[Orinsul]

This is something ive felt the game has need for quite some time, and i think it would be relatively simple to implement. And even though its not strictly on the topic of the far east, or maybe it is who knows, while the expansion being is probably the time to try and get something like this in.

The Monarch having a Culture and Religion value, not a big change. but i feel it would be a significant one.

1380.9.16 = {
	monarch = {
		name = "Charles VI"
		dynasty = "de Valois"
		adm = 6
		dip = 6
		mil = 5
                culture="cosmopolitan_french"
                religion="catholic"
	}
}

It would add alot to the game, especially to the Reformation.
With very minor modifiers to revolt risk as a result of non-culture group Monarchs. And a significant effect from a Monarch of a different religion, raised Tolerance for their Religion and maybe a lowered for State Religion.

It would add another strategic level to the politics of the Game.
And Mostly, since the new Heir system came in with the last expansion its become more and more obviously missing.
You can see the upcoming stats of a Heir, there is the threat of there not being a Heir, but there is not the threat of a Heir the country wont back.
No Elisabeth and Mary, no James the Second, William or any of the Georges [the culture bit an example here too] and not just for England. Henry IV of France is a good continental example.

But the Religion of the Heir was a serious issue, just as important if not more than there being no heir at all. And the game doesnt model it. But surely it could and without much trouble.

It would add another little challenge, and a another little risk. And another great level into the game.

 

[ForzaA]

It also adds a bit of "I'm the computer and I'm going to screw you over", ie. not a good idea unless Paradox decides to actually allow you to choose your heir. (do you pick the 9/9/9 that has the wrong religion and culture, the 6/6/6 that has the right religion but wrong culture, or the 5/5/5 that has both the right religion and culture, but has low legitimacy)

 

[Ashantai]

I think what you say has merit. The amount of times I've seen an English Henry V de Avis is ludicrous. Having a foreign king should be a disruptive thing!

 

[Orinsul]

If you have a decision where you can dis-inherit your heir, with a hit to legitimacy or badboy or something, or risking a that-culture or that-religion pretender revolt in favour of the disinherited heir [created as a leader]. Then it wouldnt be a "I'm the computer and I'm going to screw you over", although frankly, i dont really see the problem with that. Overcoming challenges is kind of the point of the game. Its not a big challenge, not really screw you over, more set you back a year or so.
and i wouldnt be in favour of picking heirs, England did pick William and Mary over James II, it had no choice but to accept James and it swifty responded by ousting him. Consequence is a good thing, no need to needlessly dodge it. But thats another issue altogether.

Having by way of no heir and a royal marriage, a king come from the royal family portugal, ought to be treated as a foreign king. Having a heretical monarch should have consequence. It was one of the great issues of most of the time the game covers, fear of it drove national policy.
Whats the point of having royal marriages and monarchs if they dont mean anything after all.

 

[midget_roxx]

That sounds very cool

 

[Dragnar]

Isn't that already in the game, just called "state religion" instead of "monarch religion"? Those were basically the same or do you honestly believe a newly crowned protestant king would see catholic as the state religion and continue to prosecute other protestants?
Yes, the fact that state religion is too static and difficult to change, while that actually changed on the whim of the leader historically is a problem, but the factor itself is already there.
And a foreign culture king is modelled already as well, as one with low legitimacy. You could make legitimacy more important and less static, but I don't thinkt adding yet another information that doesn't actually show something new is the right way. That would just make the game more unwieldly.

 

[Orinsul]

There is a difference between a government and a monarch.
As the game includes the Stats and name of an Individual, should not the faith and culture of that individual not also have an effect?
Potentially the Culture could be dropped, but as i see it, the Religion is vital, the game has suffered from the lack of it.
Should things that actually mean something not be included? rather than sticking with the numericals that mean nothing outside of gamey considerations.
And the aforementioned changed in Tolerance values from the religion of the Monarch would aid to your persecution quibble. While a Catholic King would be unable to cease the persecution, he would be able to lessen it [from historic example].Which the tolerance value is set it for exactly.

Potentially there would also be room for a republics with a majority of provinces non-state-religion but of same religion group ot have the chance of gaining a ruler of differing faith and that being a lead in to official and legal conversion.

 

[SapientHomo]

I love this idea. While I don't agree with being able to pick your heir as this could be abused there could be decisions/events to model situations like the overthrow of different religion monarchs such as James II and also to model situations like the installation of same religion monarchs such as George I.

 

[CJL78]

It would be a step in the right direction. But IMO, this wouldn't add a whole lot to the game unless PI includes minority religions/cultures in provinces in some way, either by MM's modifiers or a TW-style percentage.

 

[AlHasanAlbaghdadi]

I agree to everything you said

 

[Orinsul]

I agree to everything you said

lets hope the blokes working on the expansion do too

 

[joriandrake]

this may not work as well as one thinks first, what of the many Anjou and Bourbon, or other dynasties that expanded to "non-national" thrones without much problems?

although having a ruler with a specified faith would be nice, it should allow an easy switch of national faith easy even if at a higher loss of stability than normally, this would also make it possible for otherwise impossible switches like that of catholic from orthodox

 

[Orinsul]

It would only make for impossible switches if it was set up badly, you might say the decision for covert to protestantism could lead to impossible switches, yes it could but it doesnt because the list of religions that it is available for is carefully defined.

you might get a situation where a catholic is the king of an orthodox country, but that doesnt mean he would be able to convert its government away from orthodoxy, maybe after many generations of catholic rulership.
But playing as say France, when the reformation hits being stalwart to catholicism, defender of the faith and in every event and decision going with the Faith. Wouldnt it be fun, open alot of possibilities in playing the game and in the story of the game youre playing, to have a Calvnist heir?

Will you force him to, atleast officially if not in his heart, convert to keep the throne? As with Henry of Navarre*? Will you back another claimant and overthrow him? as with James II? Will you attempt to balance a heretical monarch with your governments religious policy? Or as Queen Mary or Elisabeth will you use the faith of the Monarch as a pretext to change the religious policy of the state?

*Maybe an Edict of Nantes like decision for such a situation might re-apply part of the tolerance effects that the heretical HoS would have brought.

As for the Culture the effect would be very minor, say English is the national primary culture, and French the Monarchs culture, as the government is still English this has little effect in England, but French culture group provinces might have be treated as though an accepted culture. Non-culture group monarchs should be alittle trouble, but the heir would have a high chance of being localised so it would hang around. i.e. George IV was still a German, but in game he might be English as by then generations had passed and everyone was used to it.
Religion is the main thing, Monarch Religion is the thing that stands out blantingly lacking in the current game and the one i believe would add the most of the Game.

 

[Raczynski]

I think what you say has merit. The amount of times I've seen an English Henry V de Avis is ludicrous. Having a foreign king should be a disruptive thing!

Like Elizabeth II von Wettin?

 

[Ashantai]

Or King Louis XIV Tudor...of France!

 

[Traj161]

i really like this idea but i also hope then that we can pick our heir

 

[Orinsul]

i really like this idea but i also hope then that we can pick our heir

to pick a heir would mean having multiple heirs for every country
which would weigh down the save file quite heavily.
Would not a decision that under some circumstances disinherits [kills off] the heir for one in the direction you want [i.e. a diplomatic or a protestant heir] with the risk fo a stability and legitimacy hit and the disinherited revolting. not do just as well?
on the whole i think heir choosing would be bad, the whole point of a heir is that you cant change them

 

[DanaDark]

Having more heirs would not weigh down the game significantly at all. Not in the slightest. Its country tags that greatly reduces game speed, this is well known by modders.

The idea of a religion for the ruler sounds like a wonderful idea to me.

It could be determined by % of provinces that are of certain religion (half Protestant half catholic means 50/50 chance).

Overall, the religion of the monarch was indeed a very major issue of the time, and played huge roles in politics (Henry->Edward->Jane->Mary->Elizabeth for example).

Being able to Willy'Nilly just declare your country a specific religion is honestly inadequate.

So far, the best way I can think to have this modded into the game would be the same way MMP does their special monarch traits.

 

[Orinsul]

MMP actually already attempts to do this [maybe its DG] with an event a modifer for a non-religion monarch.
Thats why this is such an expansion request issue, as modding just cant do it.

Id say governments should still be able to convert without the monarch being of the converting too [i.e. Henry VIII], and i wouldnt think a different faith monarch would be the only requirement but it'd definetly be in an OR={ somewhere in the decision requirements.

A province % should definetly be a factor, but also state religion of neigbouring countries and definetly any with royal marriages or vassls

 

[ZechsMerquise73]

This would add a lot of depth, being the source of many/most civil conflicts during the era.