Modern Day Scenario

[Sute]{h]

Unciv should, IMO, be handled four ways:

1. If a country is annexed completely by a colonial war, it is released as the winner's satellite instead;
2. No country which is not doomed to perpetual debt should spend more than 5 years maximum in an uncivilized state;
3. All newly independent countries are uncivilized by default;
4. If you fall under certain metrics (e.g. you go bankrupt twice or something), you get declared unciv.

What do you think?

1. Would require an obsene amount of events... since once a country has been released, the event wont trigger again. And in general I don't like independence events...
2. I can't see how we can script a trigger timing this...
3. I do see why a conquered Germany would suddenly become uncivilized if I released them as a sattelite.
4. That might be a good idea...

In generel the MAJOR problem about uncivilised nations is the reduction in BB-points for claiming their territories, which IMHO is quite unhistorical within the 1950-2005 timeframe... Most wars involving 3rd world countries actually attracted a lot of attention in the UN and from the US and USSR. None of which would like some expansionistic power to take control of entire nations no matter if they were uncivilized or not. The entire concept of uncivilized states works very well within the imperialistic timeframe of Vicky, but in a modern world imperialism and expansionism was quite unacceptable.

 

[Sute]{h]

I need to know who is going to help me with this mod just pm me with and tell me what your doing for this mod.

Edit: Check this VERY useful link http://www.worldfactsandfigures.com/complete_list.php

Note that most of the figures are quite new (around 2001) so they won't be of much use to us...

 

[unmerged(22430)]

oh yeah

 

[unmerged(32548)]

1. Would require an obsene amount of events... since once a country has been released, the event wont trigger again. And in general I don't like independence events...

Hmm, you have a point. I suppose this one would be dropped.

2. I can't see how we can script a trigger timing this...

Understandable misunderstanding. I meant that the requirements for civilization would be much, much less stringent than vanilla Vic, so a functional country would be able to claw their way out very quickly.

3. I do see why a conquered Germany would suddenly become uncivilized if I released them as a sattelite.

(Assuming a typo) I'm taking unciv not to represent lack of civilization (by the rhetoric of both sides of the Cold War, the Russians and/or the US should be uncivilized), but rather, extreme political instability and/or openness to foreign 'intervention'.

4. That might be a good idea...

In generel the MAJOR problem about uncivilised nations is the reduction in BB-points for claiming their territories, which IMHO is quite unhistorical within the 1950-2005 timeframe... Most wars involving 3rd world countries actually attracted a lot of attention in the UN and from the US and USSR. None of which would like some expansionistic power to take control of entire nations no matter if they were uncivilized or not. The entire concept of uncivilized states works very well within the imperialistic timeframe of Vicky, but in a modern world imperialism and expansionism was quite unacceptable.

Hmmmm... I'd say that imperialism and expansionism were even more common in the Cold War era than the Victorian, although it was much less overt. The only sane and comprehensive solution I could see to unciv status and trans-national territory would be treating non-core territories as sovereign countries deep within a sphere of influence and satellites as countries only strongly aligned. (Say, the post-Lumumba Congo for the first and Soviet-aligned Finland for the second...) While you could plunder the resources and abuse the population of a country which you had as a puppet at will in this era, you couldn't do that to your pawns.

 

[Sute]{h]

I'd call that a satellite or dominion... Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania were one the other hand quite integrated into the Sovjet Union.

Anyways my suggest is to not use the standard Vicky uncivilized status at all. Simply having negative economic and research modifiers in 3rd world countries instead.

 

[Sute]{h]

New factory ideas

Here is a number of ideas for new factories. Note that for each new factory we include one of the old ones properly has to go.

Power Plant [coal + oil -> electricity]
Electricity will be need for most production, replacing coal requirements.

Plastic Factory [oil + dye + electricity -> plastic]
I don't know which role plastic should play in this mod, but I do think plastic is a very important part of modern society.

Computer Factory [electric gear + plastic + electricity -> computers]
Again a commodity that since 1990 or so has played a major role... a good end time commodity.

 

[Mr. Capiatlist]

Sorry, I was gone for a week, and it seems we've done little. I have the maps of Europe and parts of Arabia drawn up.

A few problems struck me.
Aircraft and Missiles. How will we get them to work? :wacko: It is a daunting problem.

 

[Sute]{h]

I say aircrafts will properly have to end up as attachments to divisions. As to missils they will have to either be attachments to naval units, or figure into the stats to units capable of delivering them.

Nukes must be handled by events if at all...

 

[Mr. Capiatlist]

I say aircrafts will properly have to end up as attachments to divisions. As to missils they will have to either be attachments to naval units, or figure into the stats to units capable of delivering them.

Nukes must be handled by events if at all...

I can see it now:
What happen?
Someone set up us the bomb.
We get signal!
What?! Its Truman!
How are you Russkis? All your Moscow are belong to us!

- subtract 100% life rating
- lose all buildings
- presitge -500

 

[Sute]{h]

Sorry, I was gone for a week, and it seems we've done little. I have the maps of Europe and parts of Arabia drawn up.

Could you possibly post some screenshots? Than we could comment on borders and such...

 

[unmerged(18043)]

I would like to sugest that Nukes be left out of the game. I really don't think that with the number of countries in today's time that posses nukes, any country would be dumb enough to actually use them in a war unless they went full bore.

Just my 2cents.

 

[Mr. Capiatlist]

I would like to sugest that Nukes be left out of the game. I really don't think that with the number of countries in today's time that posses nukes, any country would be dumb enough to actually use them in a war unless they went full bore.

Just my 2cents.

I was going to program them as repeating events for the USA and the USSR, as choices for things like the Cuban missile crisis. Selecting to use nuclear force would cause the other party to nuke you right back, start total war and then meltdown.

I'll get back to you on those pictures, they're on another computer.

 

[Sute]{h]

I was going to program them as repeating events for the USA and the USSR, as choices for things like the Cuban missile crisis. Selecting to use nuclear force would cause the other party to nuke you right back, start total war and then meltdown.

I'll get back to you on those pictures, they're on another computer.

I tend to agree with Lord G. Q. White, but have considered the option of a number of nuke events between the US and USSR... however the problem is that the AI wouldn't asses the risks of using nukes correctly.

 

[unmerged(18043)]

I was going to program them as repeating events for the USA and the USSR, as choices for things like the Cuban missile crisis. Selecting to use nuclear force would cause the other party to nuke you right back, start total war and then meltdown.

I'll get back to you on those pictures, they're on another computer.

I didn't mean to avoid events like the cuban missle crisis, but I do think that the AI would do a poor job of understanding the consequences of it's actions.

If your doing a MDS and not a Cold War than nukes have even less 'Strategic' reason in game.

 

[Sute]{h]

Actually we're covering both, but Nuke should play a VERY limited role... perhaps as a last ditch thingy in a war between the US and Russia.

 

[unmerged(18043)]

Maybe a "Game Over" option with video footage from the end of Dr. Stranglove?

 

[unmerged(28406)]

what about the war in Korea and Vietnam.Especially Vietnam because realy they wereny just open battles but guerilla battles.And how we need to make sure that Northern Vietnam doesnt get annexed so fast ? Maybe create an DMZ ?

 

[Mr. Capiatlist]

I didn't mean to avoid events like the cuban missle crisis, but I do think that the AI would do a poor job of understanding the consequences of it's actions.

If your doing a MDS and not a Cold War than nukes have even less 'Strategic' reason in game.

Use the "ai chance" option, put it down as far as 5 percent. It is a function in the event scripting. Or you could put the trigger ai = no, that way only human players could choose to use the bomb.

{h]Actually we're covering both, but Nuke should play a VERY limited role... perhaps as a last ditch thingy in a war between the US and Russia.

The use of the nuke was not a last ditch idea during the cold war. After the cold war we claimed it was. Remember that hindsight is 20/20.

Maybe a "Game Over" option with video footage from the end of Dr. Stranglove?

I like this idea! "Mein führer, I can valk!" <Nuke Goes Off>
Or from that one movie, where at the end, there is a news paper on the ground that reads "It could have been prevented."
We will have to find a good one.

what about the war in Korea and Vietnam.Especially Vietnam because realy they wereny just open battles but guerilla battles.And how we need to make sure that Northern Vietnam doesnt get annexed so fast ? Maybe create an DMZ ?

That might have to rely on events, or some good AI programming. Maybe the VC could be revolters, and if Rebels control certain provences, the war will end. I like an open-ended game, I hate it when events programmed are set in stone. I wouldn't be so enthusiastic without the thought of changing history.

I was hoping outcomes of the wars, such as Vietnam; could set flags so that once 1991 comes arround either the USSR could fall, or the USA could backdown. Kindda like the "Fall of the French/Prussian Empires" events in Vinilla Vicky. That way either communism or capitalism can win.

 

[unmerged(18043)]

Maybe if N. Korea annex's S. Korea and N. Vietnam takes out the south, than Russia would prevent the fall of the USSR.

I don't really see a Fall of Capitolism unless you wanted to script events that would create chances of Communistic revolts in European nations, kind of like suporting the Spanish Civil war events?

 

[Mr. Capiatlist]

Maybe if N. Korea annex's S. Korea and N. Vietnam takes out the south, than Russia would prevent the fall of the USSR.

I don't really see a Fall of Capitolism unless you wanted to script events that would create chances of Communistic revolts in European nations, kind of like suporting the Spanish Civil war events?

I wouldn't predict the fall of Capitalist nations in the west, but as their fall from grace, and the spreading of Communism in the third world. So just a massive loss of prestige, maybe a few revolts here or there. West Germany would be annexed by East Germany. Nations on the border like Greece, Finland, Turkey would surcome to Communism. Maybe stability reigns in Jugoslavia and the US looses its pretige and maybe goes bankrupt... which could lead to interesting things such as the independence of Hawai'i.

Okay, enough stalling: Here's my vision of Europe:

Okay, with what I said here about Sicily. After WWII, no one was sure who'd win the first Italian ellection. Mob bosses and mayors alike in Sicily pleaded to the USA to annex them, after their fair treatment in the Sicily invasion (This is all true). The US, wanting to stem the Red Tide made a compromise; if the Communists won the election, the US planed to invade Sicily and annex them as the 49th state, or as a Dominion of the American Commonwealth. So, sticking with History, I'd appreciate it if this little event were to be kept for the sake of Interest.