Modern Day Scenario II v1.5 - Available for download

[Killerrabbit]

This is an absolutely marvelous mod, thanks, mates. You must be hearing this a lot (grin), but its true meant, and I hope it’s one of the things one can’t hear often enough after all those hours of work you must have put into it.
I played three games since 1.5, one as Germany, two as EU. The last one was ‘til 2025, and with very careful preparations I survived two nuclear wars that left Russia, china and USA as EU puppet states and the rest of the world pretty much conquered.
It’s a scary mod, though, if you are the kind of guys getting involved in your game: when the shit hit the fan in the pact-coalition war and the organized unfriendliness got nuclear, I decided to intervene (btw: it would be great to have a “news on cnn event” telling you who actually started the nuclear war, since i.e. EU might want to decide on whose side to intervene according to this). I took about a dozen nukes, and when the reports came in – Berlin, London, Paris, Madrid, Prague, Budapest, Stockholm … - I realized that there was hardly a city among them I didn’t have close friends or relatives in. When my troops conquered Shanghai about a year later (I took the land route), I realized that the province was radioactive rubble (my fiancé is from Shanghai, we visited her family this summer…). The US had gotten into a nuke-frenzy, and China (now puppeted by me) had been reduced to 8 IC and suffered from severe manpower shortage ever since (imagine: cina!). Scary mod.
I don’t have much of “error reporting”, since few errors remain. The game is already great fun as it is. The Belarus and Taiwan events fired, even though both countries had accepted peaceful reuniting before, but I guess you are already working on that. A couple of crashes, but I don’t mind that, actually. The EU is really short of tech teams, but I guess you are gonna fix this by giving them teams from the member states.
Some purely European tech teams might be:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Union_Institute_for_Security_Studies
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Union_Satellite_Centre
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Defence_Agency
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Union_Force
Generally, the implementation of the EU – especially since you made the unification optional – is brilliant, I love it.
I think the EU thing is one of the greatest potentials of the mod. What the EU story lacks (as does the entire mod so far, but it’s a beta after all) is drama. An event changing the face of the political world, creating the grates superpower of all times, and it comes along like a simple bureaucratic act ;-) well, that holds well with the EU tradition of being unromantic to the bone, but still … ;-)
Also, most of the actual EU isn’t a member in the game, most notably UK, which can’t even become one since it is in the coalition. I find a unified union hard to imagine without the UK. (and none of the member states could afford to leave the union without being thrown into economic turmoil)
How do you think about EU having all its real members, but not uniting before say 2009 earliest? (Then the constitution gets ratified. Even though one may argue that the EU members aren’t sovereign nations anymore for the past 10-15 years (whatever they tell their citizens) – so you could actually set the unification event as early as 2003 without being too unrealistic, it will not be til 2009 that the EU is an operational entity).
The six years (and the only thing I do not like about the mod is that it starts 2003. You lose so much time for your story …) ‘til unification can be filled with events leading there. The EU player could get involved more and more in geostrategic politics which eventually leads to unification.
This would be interesting only if it was possible to give the EU military units even though they have no territory. Can they have off map IC production? (zero manpower would suffice to keep them from building anything else). Or large off map money production, so they can buy the needed supplies? Or a huge supplies stack that lasts til the actual creation of a EU nation? (I tried, but it didn’t work. But I never modded anything before, so if you say it aint possible anyhow, or it aint wanted, I can stop trying to learn)
They could get the Eurocorps right from the start since it existed already before 2003 and get the EUFOR in 2004, the European Gendarmerie Force in 2006, the Battlegroups in 2007. There are thought on placing the foreign legion under EU command. The Dutch-German Corps and the Polish-German-Danish Corps are set up under the framework of NATO, but these are purely multilateral agreements between those nations with NATO actually not involved and could easily be transferred to EU (as they frequently are on a misson basis).
For transportation, the EU player would have to commandeer national units by taking command of a member with the desired capabilities (just like in real life), as for air support.
This way a player could have an interesting (if very different) game until the formation of the EU nation. A player could even choose not to unite EU and play just with those troops (up to ~20 divisions all in all), hoping for air cover and naval action from his allies. A very different game, but maybe interesting, too.
Events could call EU forces into action in missions to Congo, the Balkans, Sudan and the like. To me, here is the biggest hindrance the start in 2003, since it severely limits the possibilities for a thrilling plot. (btw.: are you planning to port the mod to today?)
My Ideas for the gradual formation of an EU army could include (obviously I had to change the Battlegroups, since the EU Battlegroup concept doesn’t fit with HOI2 Divs):

EU Army (as of 2007)
Eurocorps (Start)
• Eurocorps HQ (Headquarters) (Strasbourg)
o Eng. Brigade
• Franco-German Brigade (Infantry) (Freiburg)
o Rec Brigade
• Etat-Major de Force 3 (Armoured) (France)
• 10. Panzerdivision “Löwendivision” (Armoured) (Friedrichshafen)
o Rec Brigade
• 1 Gemechaniseerde Division (Mechanized) (Belgium)
o Rec Brigade
• División de Infantería Mecanizada Brunete n. 1 (Mechanized) (Spain)
o W. Arm Brigade

EU Battlegroups (2007)
• Nordic Battlegroup (Paratroops) (Sweden)
o AT Brigade
• Mediterranian Battlegroup (Marines) (Italy)
o Rec Brigade
• HELBROC Battlegroup (Special Division) (Greece)
o Pol Brigade
• Transport Squadron (for Nordic BG)
• Transport Flotilla (for Med. BG)

Further Units
• European Gendarmerie Force (Special Division) (Venice) (2006)
o Pol Brigade
• EUFOR HQ (Headquarters)
o Pol Brigade

Possible Units
Foreign Legions
• Légion étrangère (Paratroops) (Guyana)
o Pol Brigade
• Legión Española (Special Division) (Ceuta)

EU Based NATO Units
Multinational Corps North East
• Multinational Corps North East HQ (Headquarters) (Stettin)
o Eng Brigade
• Danske Division (Mechanized) (Denmark)
o Helicopter Batallion
• 12. mechanizovaná divize (Mechanized) (Stettin)
o SP Art Batallion
• 14. Panzergrenadierdivision „Hanse“ (Mechanized) (Stralsund)
o W. Armour Brigade
1. Deutsch-Niederländisches Corps
• 1. Deutsch-Niederländisches Corps HQ (Headquarters) (Münster)
• 1. Mechanisierte Division Schaarsbergen (Mechanized) (Neatherlands)
• 1. Panzerdivision „Division Eingreifkräfte“ (Armoured) (Hannover)
o Eng Batallion
When the player decides not to unite Europe in 2009, events spawn more EU Battlegroups in member nations, named with “Battlegroup”, “Kampfgruppe” or “doesanyoneknowwhattheyarecalledinfrench”

Your ideas are brilliant, but there is some technical difficulties with some of them. I do not think EU is able to supply any units while being offmap. And adding new tech-teams once the game has started does not work. Maybe due to the game starting so far ahead of HoI 2. Offmap production works with everything exept nukes and manpower.

They could have millitary command, though.

About the game starting in 2003... Well I agree, but it was decided by the original creators in 2003, when they started the work on the mod. (For HoI 1 at that time) So it is tradition. If I where to choose, it could start 1. January 2008, and then war could start in 2010-2011.

There could be 2 scenarios, one 2003 and one 2008ish, and then the best liked gets most modding done on it.
But all in all, changing this would require adding and removing units, countries, events, sliders, ministers and IC. Thus it would have to be something everyone would agree on, that people are willing to countribute


--------------------------------
Everyone who wants to contribute should register to the team-forum and post there. (Link in my signature)

 

[unmerged(63886)]

Your ideas are brilliant, but there is some technical difficulties with some of them. I do not think EU is able to supply any units while being offmap. And adding new tech-teams once the game has started does not work. Maybe due to the game starting so far ahead of HoI 2. Offmap production works with everything exept nukes and manpower.

They could have millitary command, though.

About the game starting in 2003... Well I agree, but it was decided by the original creators in 2003, when they started the work on the mod. (For HoI 1 at that time) So it is tradition. If I where to choose, it could start 1. January 2008, and then war could start in 2010-2011.

There could be 2 scenarios, one 2003 and one 2008ish, and then the best liked gets most modding done on it.
But all in all, changing this would require adding and removing units, countries, events, sliders, ministers and IC. Thus it would have to be something everyone would agree on, that people are willing to countribute


--------------------------------
Everyone who wants to contribute should register to the team-forum and post there. (Link in my signature)

An idea is for example Sweden to supply an eventgiven division (like NBG, that will be active from on 1st january 2008, I belive) and if a conflict comes in hand, they are handed over (expeditionary force) to EU, which I belive, will still be able to handle them, as long as they have supplies, oil, etc. which could be solved by further events, that the memberstates would have to contribute = pretty realistic, but demands some events to get functioning, but damn, so cool!

 

[cegorach]

Multinational Corps North East
• Multinational Corps North East HQ (Headquarters) (Stettin)
o Eng Brigade
• Danske Division (Mechanized) (Denmark)
o Helicopter Batallion
• 12. mechanizovaná divize (Mechanized) (Stettin)
o SP Art Batallion
• 14. Panzergrenadierdivision „Hanse“ (Mechanized) (Stralsund)
o W. Armour Brigade

The name you have posted looks like in Czech - especially the letter á which doesn't exist in Polish...



The correct name is

12 Szczecińska Dywizja Zmechanizowana im. Księcia Bolesława Krzywoustego

consists of :

6 B.K. Pancernej im. gen.bryg. Konstantego Plisowskiego (armour),



12 Brygada Zmechanizowana im. gen. broni Józefa Hallera,

2 Brygada Zmechanizowana Legionów im. Marszałka Józefa Piłsudskiego

36 Brygada Zmechanizowana im. Legii Akademickiej

(all three mechanized),



and

7 Brygada Obrony Wybrzeża im. gen. bryg. Stanisława

Grzmot-Skotnickiego (marines),


and should include

two AA units, one artillery, one either engineer and one recon unit



I believe the mod uses brigade structure so this is justified.




@Killerrabbit

Hi !

Your mod is enjoyable, but it needs some help with a number of details.

I belive I can help a bit with Poland - even the data in Polish section of Wikiedia should be enough + I will use correct spelling because there are several spelling mistakes out there (for example 'Gawron' class frigate is misspelled somehow).

I can prepare the OOB with names in Polish if you need + add some equipment names for models.


Four questions ...more...


1. Are you planning Armageddon release ?

2. Who invented the single lousy event for Poland (500 000+ Poles are expelled from Belorus and it only causes some minor disagreement without any consequences) - surely it would cause something more...

3. Poland will use a mixture of lighter tanks ( Polish PT91 and probably this Swedish light tank - I cannot recall its name for the moment)
and heavier (Leopard 2) - will it receive western or eastern armoured units in the next release ?

4. Some time ago I have prepared a list of Polish ministers (some 100 of them covering all political options) ) for the mod called 'The Next War' which disappeared from the pages of this forum - I upload them if you like, but it will happen either to this friday or right in 2008. Do you want them ?

Regards Cegorach

 

[PanzerWilly]

I enjoy the mod immensely. I have played a game as USA and as a reunited EU. Obviously, the EU portrayed in the game strays from the EU in RL. There would be much more resistance to loss of sovereignty, even from the French and Germans, who benefit the most from such a union. But that is part of the fun of the game. The EU may very well splinter apart as well. Maybe those should be options. Dissent or belligerence too high or something.

I find the AI for minor nations needs to be worked on. All minor nations seem to use the same AI file. Is this correct or am I misreading the folder? Doesn't seem like it would be too hard to tweak.

I would like to not have to force nations like Poland or Romania to join my alliance (thru acceptall). They should want to join after they are at war and maybe even sooner. Many Eastern European countries should have the option of joining the EU or the Coalition when they honor their NATO agreements.

Also, a belligerent China or Russia should begin to move countries like Taiwan, South Korea, Japan, and Thailand into the USA sphere. Likewise, belligerent USA should move Myanmar and North Korea into the Chinese sphere.

The US has recently formed much closer ties to India than existed during the Cold War. India and China are clearly not aligning together against the West. India has turned to the US to offset rising Chinese influence in the region. Pakistan's arrangement with the US, while appearing troubling to India, is not as bad for India as may be thought. Having a steady US presence to ensure that the secular Pakistani regime remains in power and in control of its nuclear arsenal, is paramount to Indian security.

Also, in the event that the US invades Iran, the EU should have the option to support the US in some way. I don't know what's best. But it seemed in the RW that France and Germany were as concerned and alarmed about Iranian nuclear ambitions as the USA was.

It would be nice if the EU could inherit its member-states divisions. It would give a nice flair of units instead of just 1st Mot. Div. and so on. Kinda like the naval units.

 

[Jamie550]

I enjoy the mod immensely. I have played a game as USA and as a reunited EU. Obviously, the EU portrayed in the game strays from the EU in RL. There would be much more resistance to loss of sovereignty, even from the French and Germans, who benefit the most from such a union. But that is part of the fun of the game. The EU may very well splinter apart as well. Maybe those should be options. Dissent or belligerence too high or something.

I find the AI for minor nations needs to be worked on. All minor nations seem to use the same AI file. Is this correct or am I misreading the folder? Doesn't seem like it would be too hard to tweak.

I would like to not have to force nations like Poland or Romania to join my alliance (thru acceptall). They should want to join after they are at war and maybe even sooner. Many Eastern European countries should have the option of joining the EU or the Coalition when they honor their NATO agreements.

Also, a belligerent China or Russia should begin to move countries like Taiwan, South Korea, Japan, and Thailand into the USA sphere. Likewise, belligerent USA should move Myanmar and North Korea into the Chinese sphere.

The US has recently formed much closer ties to India than existed during the Cold War. India and China are clearly not aligning together against the West. India has turned to the US to offset rising Chinese influence in the region. Pakistan's arrangement with the US, while appearing troubling to India, is not as bad for India as may be thought. Having a steady US presence to ensure that the secular Pakistani regime remains in power and in control of its nuclear arsenal, is paramount to Indian security.

Also, in the event that the US invades Iran, the EU should have the option to support the US in some way. I don't know what's best. But it seemed in the RW that France and Germany were as concerned and alarmed about Iranian nuclear ambitions as the USA was.

It would be nice if the EU could inherit its member-states divisions. It would give a nice flair of units instead of just 1st Mot. Div. and so on. Kinda like the naval units.

IIRC, having all the AI files slowed the game down a lot.

 

[kapitan]

@DesertSnow

I don't think leaving the UK outside is "unrealistic". Check UK policy for matters like the EU-army and the EU-constitution, and you will understand why the UK would have major objections to the "enhanced" union the mod portrays.

Giving UK the choice (through events) to choose is a nice alternative.

I don’t disagree with you, and if the UK were aligned with EU, they would have exactly this kind of choice. But UKs alliance with the Coalition prevents that. To me, the Coalition seems to be mainly designed for the Iraq war, which was a major subject when the mod was first laid down in 2003. From today’s perspective I would say that, while the Iraq war has the potential to seriously damage the US, the course of the world will probably not pivot around it. We could rethink the alliances a bit, and I am fond of the idea that events, choices and the course of player actions could have an impact on the alliances that are going to form. I.e. Afghanistan has been described as a test for NATO. If NATO fails there, it could become more unlikely for certain nations to join the Coalition, maybe it could even result in the dissolution of NATO (if other things go bad, too) and start further reactions (Canada joining EU or such)
Anyway, I doubt that UK would leave the EU just for participating in the Iraq war. (In real life, I doubt it is possible to leave the EU without throwing your county into economic disaster). And in the Mod they already left the Union in favour of the war.
And, like Hellbound said, while the Brits tend to be quite patriotic, they are not all uncooperative. The “Army of 60.000” was a Franco-British proposal, and the Battlegroup Army we have now lacks behind that. Also I recall UK being not so critical about the treaty reform. They just didn’t like it called “Constitution”, but what the heck. ;-)

@Killerrabbit

Your ideas are brilliant, but there is some technical difficulties with some of them. I do not think EU is able to supply any units while being offmap. And adding new tech-teams once the game has started does not work. Maybe due to the game starting so far ahead of HoI 2. Offmap production works with everything exept nukes and manpower.

They could have millitary command, though.

About the game starting in 2003... Well I agree, but it was decided by the original creators in 2003, when they started the work on the mod. (For HoI 1 at that time) So it is tradition. If I where to choose, it could start 1. January 2008, and then war could start in 2010-2011.

There could be 2 scenarios, one 2003 and one 2008ish, and then the best liked gets most modding done on it.
But all in all, changing this would require adding and removing units, countries, events, sliders, ministers and IC. Thus it would have to be something everyone would agree on, that people are willing to countribute

Glad you found some merit in the ideas. Maybe we can find some workaround for the problems. TeutoburgerW’s ideas are pretty appealing, and I almost favour them for being very realistic (thanx mate). But they have have some disadvantages: It wont wort with ships and airplane, I think, and givin’ EU at least one transport ship and squadron would be nice. Second, an event triggered loan-unit would be there where the owning nation left it. If Sweden i.e. used the NBG, say, to quell unrest in some province, that could seriously spoil the day. And last but not least, the purely event triggered EU Army would limit the EU player to mere reaction, realistic, but may spoil the fun a little for some player. If at all possible I would like to try otherwise. Especially because this may set examples for other off map entities (UN, NATO, AU, etc. imagine: Afghanistan is not part of the coalition but a puppet to NATO, no coalition troops in there. Instead the county has 100% rebellion and event triggered NATO units (event “dissolved” in their home country for the time being) will have to survive there. NATO has to conduct nation building (possible in HOI2, I did in with my post nuke puppets). Event triggered or offmap supplies will have to be split between the troops and given to Afghanistan in the hope that they will get their rebellion under control. This and the event triggered manpower will emulate the chronic underfunding of the troops there. Events for the participating nations might also influence the outcome).
You say that couldn’t SUPPLY any units while being offmap. But if they had offmap supplies and oil as well as event triggered manpower? I know that events can place a specific unit in a specific province, I just don’t know if that can be done in a province not owned by i.e. EU. Is that the problem?

@cegorach

The name you have posted looks like in Czech - especially the letter á which doesn't exist in Polish...

Oops, sorry for that, mate. Thanx a lot for correcting me. The text where I found the information had the name only in german (and my polish is limited to some curses I learned form a college pal and I could never repeat in public ;-). Since I find it especially important for EU troops to have names in all the different languages (its just beautiful to have an army corps with units named in a dozen different languages) I googled until I found something that looked sufficiently polish to me … (*ashamed*). The province-name “Stettin” I used only since its called that on the map, no offense meant.
As for the brigades: I think we have to decide on one type of troops, since a division based system seems to be used, and a division can only have 1 brigade. I chose mech for the div (bulk of troops) and sp art to simulate the armour (sp) and artillery components of the Szczecińska. Do you think that’s a realistic translation of the unit?

@ PanzerWilly

The EU may very well splinter apart as well. Maybe those should be options. Dissent or belligerence too high or something.

They do. When I had my first nuclear war, I was ill prepared. (only risk a nuclear war when you have a infantry unit every three provinces and at least 500k supply stockpile!) 100% percent rebellion, wrecked economy and infrastructure caused Norway to break away and proclaim independence.

 

[cegorach]

@cegorach

Oops, sorry for that, mate. Thanx a lot for correcting me. The text where I found the information had the name only in german (and my polish is limited to some curses I learned form a college pal and I could never repeat in public ;-). Since I find it especially important for EU troops to have names in all the different languages (its just beautiful to have an army corps with units named in a dozen different languages) I googled until I found something that looked sufficiently polish to me … (*ashamed*). The province-name “Stettin” I used only since its called that on the map, no offense meant.

It doesn't matter - apart from cheap entertainment (Czech names are always funny if read by a Pole and opposite) there was nothing which anyone could find offensive.

As for the brigades: I think we have to decide on one type of troops, since a division based system seems to be used, and a division can only have 1 brigade. I chose mech for the div (bulk of troops) and sp art to simulate the armour (sp) and artillery components of the Szczecińska. Do you think that’s a realistic translation of the unit?

I would rather add AA attachment.


As for the brigade vs division system - I would favour brigades which are already present - it would really be dull to play e.g. Poland and have only 3-4 units to play with...

Besides this way Poland would lose all special units it should have - air cavalry brigade, mountain brigade, marine brigade, para brigade and its special units would be completely eliminated - of course other states would lose a lot as well, but those with smaller armies will suffer more for certain...

 

[Biga]

Hey dear Killerrabbit!

You have some personal messages

Meanwhile I tested my new units for MDS2 I check it out UK too... What do you think about strengthen a little bit? Because they are planning (or already beginning?) building of two Q.Elisabeth class super-carriers. Now, UK in the game has not enough IC for it.

cheers,
Biga

 

[Fiestacat]

Good mod, gave it a spin as the EU. I too would like to echo the sentiment that it needs more tech teams and is certainly deserving of some I saw in national tech lists as well; such as the respective national branches of EADS, Thales Group, perhaps add Eurocopter and the suggestions mentioned. Also, I recall that the vanilla German Anschluss event involves inheriting all of Austria's military units. Would it be possible to add (either for myself or maybe even for the next release) the inheriting of national units?

 

[Radu]

Proposal

I've posted my proposal on the MDS2 forum and I guess there's no harm in getting feedback from here as well.

First, I would like to underline the following fact. By 2003 there were really only two types of regular Infantry : Motorized and Mechanized.

Mechanized Infantry uses Tracked APCs/IFVs which gives it excellent mobility under all conditions. All this at a suitably high cost.

Motorized Infantry uses Wheeled APCs which gives it higher speed in flat,favorable conditions and makes it also considerably more cheap to build and maintain, but suffers greatly when encountering rugged terrain or adverse weather.

Of note is that both Motorized and Mechanized are roughly 50/50 in hardness/softness.

However, because HOI uses a division-centric system,which worked well for WWII, it means that the armies of most nations which are too small to maintain even one division let alone enough to at least cover their borders. Sticking to this system would mean most nations would have entire parts of their OOB (which consists of brigades) shaven off.

What are needed are 'divison' models that represent independent manouver,operational brigades,whose attack/defense manpower and consumption are set accordingly, that is, roughly 1/3 of a division model actually representing a divison.

As noted, by 2003 there are no divisions or brigades formed of either foot,truck-riding or militia infantry, thus these need not be modelled. The HOI Infantry and Militia unit files are free to use. Incidentally they are also needed.

My proposed artifice : Use the old HOI foot 'Infantry' to model mechanized independent manouver brigades (one example is the US 256th Infantry Brigade Combat Team). Use the HOI 'Militia' files to model motorized infantry independent manouver brigades (example : Romania's 2nd Infantry Brigade).

Same for Armored units. Operationally, the distinction between same generation/capability NATO/Warsaw MBTs (No, the T-72 isn't the M1's equivalent.The T-80 is) isn't that great and they can be equated, free-ing up the L Arm model to be used to model independent armored brigades (like the US 278th Armored Cavalry Regiment).

Thus, pretty much all of the OOBs of countries, large or small can be accurately modelled.

Again, the cornerstone is the fact countires with armies big enough to be modelled are also decently mechanized to be represented as Armored, Tracked or Wheeled APC Brigades/Divisions and the ones still relying on foot/truck infantry have thankfully limted ability to project them offensively,thus we can model them through Garrison units. And this allows us to recycle the 'infantry' and 'militia' files to represent regular modern infantry brigades.

 

[unmerged(30953)]

I can't access the MDS2 forum, it says 'incorrect username'. It's weird because I was able to access the forum earlier, but since yesterday it won't let me in. What happened?

 

[Fiestacat]

lots of awesome words

Again, the cornerstone is the fact countires with armies big enough to be modelled are also decently mechanized to be represented as Armored, Tracked or Wheeled APC Brigades/Divisions and the ones still relying on foot/truck infantry have thankfully limted ability to project them offensively,thus we can model them through Garrison units. And this allows us to recycle the 'infantry' and 'militia' files to represent regular modern infantry brigades.

The problem with garrison infantry is that it can't retreat and is destroyed once defeated, which is rather unrealistic and also a little debilitating, imho. How do you solve this?

 

[unmerged(79830)]

Okey, i've done everything the mod team says to do, but when i start to play, the game ends, it gives me the event when you arrive to the end of the scenario, What should i do to solve this problem?

 

[unmerged(63886)]

Okey, i've done everything the mod team says to do, but when i start to play, the game ends, it gives me the event when you arrive to the end of the scenario, What should i do to solve this problem?

Use the included no time limit mod and crack you hoi2.exe

 

[unmerged(79830)]

I've used the no time limit, but the patch, don't know why but it's impossible to use.

 

[unmerged(79830)]

 

[unmerged(63886)]

That's for DD 1.2... You should have a newer, I belive.

 

[unmerged(79830)]

It's the one that was with the link to download the mod

 

[Radu]

The problem with garrison infantry is that it can't retreat and is destroyed once defeated, which is rather unrealistic and also a little debilitating, imho. How do you solve this?

Nit-picking, are we?

Well, that's the beauty of this solution. It will be employed in situations where this doesn't need solving, on the contrary, where the Garrison model will reflect realistic capabilities.

The only countires still using unarmored trucks for operational infantry are either very small or extremely impoverished thrid world countries, or both.

Either the case, these countires have militaries that are symbolic/police in nature, certainly unfit for the high-intensity mechanized post Cold-War warfare I'm sure HOI fans drool after, me included (guilty as charged).

The countires which will have Garrisons representing various light battalions or brigades will fit the above-mentioned template and will also in addition to a small and non-armored army have very limited logistical capabilities, again lacking the 'stamina' needed for modern mechanized warfare.

Thus, if indeed these formations are forced to retreat in the face of a combined-arms assault, it is unlikely that they will have either the strategic depth or the strategic resources to fall back and coagulate into another coherent line of defense.

Example : Jamaica.

Jamaica's ground forces include a total of three light infantry battalions which are equipped with jeeps/trucks, no APCs of any kind.

Now imagine Jamaica is on the receiving end of an invasion by the US.

DO you honestly see them skillfully falling back to another line of defense or dispersing into the jungle?

The Garrison model *perfectly* portrays these small police/strictly self defense forces which, if involved in a actual major war,can only hope to delay an invader,certainly not defeat him.

The same example can be given to other Central American or other countries whose armies have neither the interest nor the resources to maintain a mechanized army of any meaningful size from a strategic perspective.

 

[kapitan]

I would rather add AA attachment.


As for the brigade vs division system - I would favour brigades which are already present - it would really be dull to play e.g. Poland and have only 3-4 units to play with...

.... mmmhhh, seems i didnt (and dont) completely get how rl units were translated into mds:
i read somewhere that for infantry 1 hoi unit represents 10.000 combat troops. for armour, they used a somewhat different ratio (dont know which) and for special forces, they seem to have made some exceptions (i.e. in the german oob they included the KSK as a mountain (?) division, even though it has nothing near 10.000 men)
but while in the german oob units are called "divisions" and grouped units "corps", in the polish oob units are called "brigades" and groups "divisions". so either the term "division" is used differently in german (10.000 troops) and polish (30.000 troops) or one of the oob uses a wrong nomenklature. The polish (104.000) and german (115.000) armies are approxemately the same size, and the translated 12 units for poland and 18 units for germany may be because the bundeswehr is a bit more armour heavy (and still restructuring and reducing from its cold war oob)
i think it would be great if you went over the polish oob anyway, because the units are still all named in english and having the real names would be much cooler.