Modern Day Scenario II v1.5 - Available for download

[Killerrabbit]

I see noone is really interested in having the typos fixed lol... anyways I will do it for myself and when done I'll upload it somewhere (won't be home until sunday though)

The thing is that we have almost re-done all texts, models and tech tree + events, so any 1.5 typos fixed probably won't help. You can help us with this later at the beta-testing stage.

 

[unmerged(51521)]

While I've always liked the mod, it seems that I won't be downloading 1.6. It seems like the devs have gone ballistic on making it too real. Which means I can't even make the slightest move without extreme involvement by the greater powers. A shame really.

I think I agree with you here.... this mod is going OTT in the name of realism while not actually being realistic. The main storyline is unrealistic so why is everything else meant to be realistic. Also, the recent conflict in Ossetia proves that nations can fight without widespread wars developing.... and finally the USA isn't able to beat every nation in the world with its armed forces no matter what they say (strangly the most advanced Subs, non-stealth aircraft, heli's and tanks and hand-held weapons are in the hands of the Russians (in small numbers) or the Europeans).

 

[Radu]

I think I agree with you here.... this mod is going OTT in the name of realism while not actually being realistic. The main storyline is unrealistic so why is everything else meant to be realistic. Also, the recent conflict in Ossetia proves that nations can fight without widespread wars developing.... and finally the USA isn't able to beat every nation in the world with its armed forces no matter what they say (strangly the most advanced Subs, non-stealth aircraft, heli's and tanks and hand-held weapons are in the hands of the Russians (in small numbers) or the Europeans).

You seem to know a whole lot about 1.6 . Tell me,are you one of the modders? Because I sure as hell haven't seen you around,contributing and I'm one of the main men on the team.

Care to enlighten me about the "main storyline" and how it is unrealistic? How it starts? Its preconditions? How it develops? Who are its main players? Care to enumerate the major alliances dropped and new ones considered? Any idea about the new tech tree? New components? Which tech teams were dropped? What has been done about the issue of independent brigades? How the old SO Bdes have been refashioned? Mobilization events? Economic model? Corruption model? Effects associated with the Free Market and Hawk Lobby slider? What's being done with the Stealth Refit attachments? How about the new unit values? Org/Morale Values? What is the new name for the "Morale" attribute? Its meaning? What is the new system in place to allow minor countries the purchase of foreign tanks/airplanes and the building of tanks/airplanes under license? How was GDP factored in as IC? Anything?...

Let me tell you, you have no idea about the changes coming down the pipe for 1.6,comprende? None! And thus,you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about,my friend,making you just somebody that rambles on without any meaning.

 

[unmerged(51521)]

You seem to know a whole lot about 1.6 . Tell me,are you one of the modders? Because I sure as hell haven't seen you around,contributing and I'm one of the main men on the team.

Care to enlighten me about the "main storyline" and how it is unrealistic? How it starts? How it develops?

I didnt say i was a modder on the team. I am going by the comments of the modders or yourself.
1)Europe for example will see a Barbarossa in reverse with Russia on a hair-on-fire offensive.
Do you really think Russia will go on the offensive into Europe? Maybe into Ukraine and Belorus but any further is really unlikely. Russia has no intension of going after Poland again.
2)Australia will have to sweat a bit in case of a Shanghai Pact Indonesia.
So the Shanghai pact is going after Australia huh? Yeah right! Any country would know that would instantly mean war with USA, UK, New Zealand and Western Europe at least because it is so respected internationally... or is the Shanghai Pact made up of fools?
3)Myanmar will have a chance to push all the way to Singapore.
Again this would lead to war with those UK Australia and New Zealand at the very least, Myanmar wouldn't try that (especially as they have enough problems in their own country).

 

[Radu]

I didnt say i was a modder on the team. I am going by the comments of the modders or yourself.
1)Europe for example will see a Barbarossa in reverse with Russia on a hair-on-fire offensive.
Do you really think Russia will go on the offensive into Europe? Maybe into Ukraine and Belorus but any further is really unlikely. Russia has no intension of going after Poland again.
2)Australia will have to sweat a bit in case of a Shanghai Pact Indonesia.
So the Shanghai pact is going after Australia huh? Yeah right! Any country would know that would instantly mean war with USA, UK, New Zealand and Western Europe at least because it is so respected internationally... or is the Shanghai Pact made up of fools?
3)Myanmar will have a chance to push all the way to Singapore.
Again this would lead to war with those UK Australia and New Zealand at the very least, Myanmar wouldn't try that (especially as they have enough problems in their own country).

So,in other words,you are making just assumptions. You have no idea about the context.Wether the threat to Australia will be before WW3,during,or after major victories against NATO have been achieved. Wether Myanmar's landgrab will be before,during or after crippling blows have been dealt to the USA/UK. You have no idea about the reasons,context or end result of a Russian invasion of Europe. In fact,you don't even know the year our storyline branches from history and in what way and with what consequences.

 

[unmerged(51521)]

So,in other words,you are making just assumptions. You have no idea about the context.Wether the threat to Australia will be before WW3,during,or after major victories against NATO have been achieved. Wether Myanmar's landgrab will be before,during or after crippling blows have been dealt to the USA/UK. You have no idea about the reasons,context or end result of a Russian invasion of Europe. In fact,you don't even know the year our storyline branches from history and in what way and with what consequences.

So.... you still have the Shanghai Pact and Arab nations as being just bad guys in the same way that the USSR was shown in all the cold war movies. And anyway, that was only part of my comment and was to show you the lack or realism like the chances of WW3 actually happening (come on really? )
EDIT: I mean its to show that some parts are lacking realism while your claiming to be sticking to realism to prevent people having fun. Also this isnt compairable to realistic WW2 mods as WW2 actually happened and mods can be based on that, a modern WW3 hasn't happened

 

[Radu]

Do you know what "realism" means? "Realism" means "as in real life". Which does not necessarily equal "historicity".

Something can be "realistic" without being "historical". Thus,a nuclear exchange during the Cold War can be depicted in a "realistic" manner without it necessarily being a historical fact.

Thus,just because this scenario does not have WW2 as its context doesn't make it "un-realistic",it makes it "a-historical".

A-historicity comes in two flavors : "fantasy" (Battleships for Bhutan) and "fiction" (D-Day fails,Midway is won by the Japanese,any alternative scenario).

The storyline of 1.6 is "fiction" in the sense that it is "a-historical",yet seeks to adhere to the rules and laws of actual life.

You are confusing historicity,fantasy and fiction.

 

[unmerged(51521)]

Do you know what "realism" means? "Realism" means "as in real life". Which does not necessarily equal "historicity".

Something can be "realistic" without being "historical". Thus,a nuclear exchange during the Cold War can be depicted in a "realistic" manner without it necessarily being a historical fact.

Thus,just because this scenario does not have WW2 as its context doesn't make it "un-realistic",it makes it "a-historical".

A-historicity comes in two flavors : "fantasy" (Battleships for Bhutan) and "fiction" (D-Day fails,Midway is won by the Japanese,any alternative scenario).

The storyline of 1.6 is "fiction" in the sense that it is "a-historical",yet seeks to adhere to the rules and laws of actual life.

You are confusing historicity,fantasy and fiction.

No I am not, I just apparently was misunderstood... I said that a WW3 was unrealistic, not that it hasn't happened but that it won't happen in the time that technology remains at a current level (it wont happen at least until after the next paradigm shift). I did not say that a nuclear exchange couldn't have happened in the Cold War, I said that the USSR was always shown as being the big bad in cold war movies. My comment about the realism mods for WW2 was to do with the fact you lump your mod with theirs in terms of realism while you appear to be sticking to an un-realistic view of the world. The mod has more to do with the Tom Clancy style view of the world then any actually realistic view.

 

[Radu]

No I am not, I just apparently was misunderstood... I said that a WW3 was unrealistic, not that it hasn't happened but that it won't happen in the time that technology remains at a current level (it wont happen at least until after the next paradigm shift). I did not say that a nuclear exchange couldn't have happened in the Cold War, I said that the USSR was always shown as being the big bad in cold war movies. My comment about the realism mods for WW2 was to do with the fact you lump your mod with theirs in terms of realism while you appear to be sticking to an un-realistic view of the world. The mod has more to do with the Tom Clancy style view of the world then any actually realistic view.

How about you wait for 1.6 to see the units,models,starting techs,teams and storyline involvement of nations before you comment on my "unrealistic" world view ok? You must really think yourself as a Sherlock Holmes,giving a verdict based on the breadcrumb goodies I've laced my posts with.Either that,or you had your mind made up from the very beginning.

 

[unmerged(51521)]

How about you wait for 1.6 to see the units,models,starting techs,teams and storyline involvement of nations before you comment on my "unrealistic" world view ok? You must really think yourself as a Sherlock Holmes,giving a verdict based on the breadcrumb goodies I've laced my posts with.Either that,or you had your mind made up from the very beginning.

Wow!!! Talk about taking things badly. I have enjoyed MDS from the original one and I have contributed a couple of things to it as well as the occassional comment to help on this thread so I have not had my mind made up against it from the beginning. At least one other person has made a similar comment so maybe you ought to be more careful what you say so that people dont get the wrong idea?

 

[Radu]

Wow!!! Talk about taking things badly. I have enjoyed MDS from the original one and I have contributed a couple of things to it as well as the occassional comment to help on this thread so I have not had my mind made up against it from the beginning. At least one other person has made a similar comment so maybe you ought to be more careful what you say so that people dont get the wrong idea?

Those persons haven't been paying attention or haven't grasped the terms of "storyline" and "context".

You'd think people would be smart enough to realize that it would be incredibly stupid of us to trumpet realism and then pit Indonesia vs Australia or Myanmar vs western Indochina, out of the blue,without a proper context,a "how" and "why" surrounding the conflict.

 

[unmerged(51521)]

Those persons haven't been paying attention or haven't grasped the terms of "storyline" and "context".

You'd think people would be smart enough to realize that it would be incredibly stupid of us to trumpet realism and then pit Indonesia vs Australia or Myanmar vs western Indochina, out of the blue,without a proper context,a "how" and "why" surrounding the conflict.

There is no realistic way that Australia would be worried about Indonesia unless the USA and Western Europe had been destroyed... so unless this has happened then there is no reason (unless you're storyline now actually goes over 50 years (in which case well done and I can't wait)) and the chances of them being destroyed is extremely unrealistic. There is no realistic reason for that unless you've gone against previous plans and now have post nuclear storyline. (and I do mean realism and not fantasy or whatever).

And the only context that would lead to a Russian invasion of Europe past Ukraine and Belarus would be an attack against Russia by the west and that is unlikely.

Please tell me I'm wrong and you aren't making the Shanghai Pact, Arabs or Russia as the typical bad guy because all "realistic" causes of WW3 I've seen presented by people are based on these biased and offensive view points.

Please do understand that I want to like this mod (even though I found problems with playing 1.5 I kept trying, and even though I dislike what I hear about 1.6 so far I WANT to like it.) and I am not intentionally mistaking your words.

 

[Radu]

Hmmm...we do have a post nuclear storyline,but not a post-apocalyptic storyline,if you get my drift.

 

[unmerged(51521)]

Hmmm...we do have a post nuclear storyline,but not a post-apocalyptic storyline,if you get my drift.

Sorry, I meant post-apoc. Do you mean post-nuclear in the sense of after a nuclear war or in the sense of technology after nuclear tech I wonder as it could be taken either way. I hope you meant the first and if so then I'd love to see how you got it to figure out that nukes were used (nice quick reply that time huh? )

 

[Killerrabbit]

There is no realistic way that Australia would be worried about Indonesia unless the USA and Western Europe had been destroyed... so unless this has happened then there is no reason (unless you're storyline now actually goes over 50 years (in which case well done and I can't wait)) and the chances of them being destroyed is extremely unrealistic. There is no realistic reason for that unless you've gone against previous plans and now have post nuclear storyline. (and I do mean realism and not fantasy or whatever).

And the only context that would lead to a Russian invasion of Europe past Ukraine and Belarus would be an attack against Russia by the west and that is unlikely.

Please tell me I'm wrong and you aren't making the Shanghai Pact, Arabs or Russia as the typical bad guy because all "realistic" causes of WW3 I've seen presented by people are based on these biased and offensive view points.

Please do understand that I want to like this mod (even though I found problems with playing 1.5 I kept trying, and even though I dislike what I hear about 1.6 so far I WANT to like it.) and I am not intentionally mistaking your words.

There will be no bad guys in a normal sence of the two words. There will be different world view. As Israel, palestinians may be refered to as terrorists. For Iran, who gives support to Hamas, they will be freedom fighters. As the UK (due to tensions) Russia may be precived as the bad guy. As Russia, it will be the EU / USA (NATO) which are expanding into their backwaters despite early 90's agreements.

In a world with many viewpoints, we as modders can't choose the one we see most fitting and present it to the people playing. It would still be subjective. I, as an supporter of Iran's nuclear program, should not be painting their arguments all over in the mod. However, we will show the different sides to different countries.

You can look forward to 1.60. It will have a real storyline, more realistic units and combat, more countries, more things happening, a whole new interface and graphics, leaders, tech-teams, techs, ministers, elections and AI.

Edit: There will not be "one" cause for WW3. It will happen as a results of various conflicts, and level of AI and human aggressitivity.

 

[unmerged(51521)]

There will be no bad guys in a normal sence of the two words. There will be different world view. As Israel, palestinians may be refered to as terrorists. For Iran, who gives support to Hamas, they will be freedom fighters. As the UK (due to tensions) Russia may be precived as the bad guy. As Russia, it will be the EU / USA (NATO) which are expanding into their backwaters despite early 90's agreements.

In a world with many viewpoints, we as modders can't choose the one we see most fitting and present it to the people playing. It would still be subjective. I as an supporter of Iran's nuclear program, should not be painting their arguments all over in the mod. However, we will show the different sides to different countries.

You can look forward to 1.60. It will have a real storyline, more realistic units and combat, more countries, more things happening, a whole new interface and graphics, leaders, tech-teams, techs, ministers, elections and AI.

In that case thats one plus as far as I'm conserned as most mods do stick to one viewpoint and its normally the American one. May I make a suggestion though about that, how about having American events following the American viewpoint and the Iranian ones following the Iranian one (mostly for both but not exclusively) to give a more realistic feeling of what the nations feel. I just hope that the mod is also more playable then some comments have made it sound recently, I would like to have some options of making my own path with any nation (as all nations can. They might not be able to become major powers but they do have options).

Oh, and unrelated to all of this stuff, will there be a Georgian crisis based on the current events and will Abkhazia and South Ossetia be added as playable as they have been acting as independent since before the mod start (along with Transnister, Somaliland and the NE Somalia nation I can't remember the name of) and maybe some of the other minor nations. After all it is now possible to add new provinces. While they may not be really playable they would be important for the other nations.

 

[Killerrabbit]

In that case thats one plus as far as I'm conserned as most mods do stick to one viewpoint and its normally the American one. May I make a suggestion though about that, how about having American events following the American viewpoint and the Iranian ones following the Iranian one (mostly for both but not exclusively) to give a more realistic feeling of what the nations feel. I just hope that the mod is also more playable then some comments have made it sound recently, I would like to have some options of making my own path with any nation (as all nations can. They might not be able to become major powers but they do have options).

Oh, and unrelated to all of this stuff, will there be a Georgian crisis based on the current events and will Abkhazia and South Ossetia be added as playable as they have been acting as independent since before the mod start (along with Transnister, Somaliland and the NE Somalia nation I can't remember the name of) and maybe some of the other minor nations. After all it is now possible to add new provinces. While they may not be really playable they would be important for the other nations.

Yep, that is what I was meaning. The US will have a american view of things etc.

About new nations, it depends on how the map modding goes. I think we have added a province for South Ossetia already. Somaliland and Abkhazia will is already included in the start line up. The other somali 'state' would be Puntland. We probably won't include it since it sees itself as an part of Somalia + lack of tags. I would love to see Transnistria included. The Soviet Union for the win!

 

[Fire_Unionist]

Plenty!

Before WW3,you'll like to use the peacetime to achieve some form of economic growth.Take time to stamp out corruption so your IC can flourish (being a democracy and free market really helps!Being a dictatorship with a planned economy really doesn't). You'll also want to buddy up to your "designated" major (the one who's sphere of influence you're in...building relations with the US as North Korea should be wasted money) so you can take advantage of the tech sharing and aircraft/tank purchase chains we're working on.

Once WW3 starts...it depends.

Europe for example will see a Barbarossa in reverse with Russia on a hair-on-fire offensive.

If you're Poland or some other Eastern European minor you're on your own against Russia while Germany,France,UK and USA gear up fully. Israel will play in much the same way when eventually pitted against its neighbours for one final Arab-Israeli showdown. Taiwan will subscribe to the "Survive until US arrives" strategy as well.

If you're playing Belarus,you'll get to ride piggyback on Russia,as will be the Central Asian republics.

Pakistan will have to worry about India.

Australia will have to sweat a bit in case of a Shanghai Pact Indonesia.

Myanmar will have a chance to push all the way to Singapore.

North/South Korea will obviously have another go at resolving the Civil War.

Africa and South America will be proxy heaven with both the USA and China/Russia dumping money,tech and military hardware to ensure their proxies win.

Well, at least I'll have something to do, anyway. But I really don't think i'ts realistic if you can't manually DoW without being dogpiled and nuked by every power in the world. I mean, if that happened in real life, we would all be in a nuclear war by now because of recent events in Georgia. Realistically, if Russia invaded Estonia, it defenately wouldn't spell WW3 either.

 

[Biges]

I'v jist tried this mod.
Installation seems to be a bit complicated, I think usual "make a copy of DD and unpack this archive to it" would be better.
Anyway, Russia starts with Yavlinky as the president. Sweden has no government at all.
I'm not in mood for bug hunting.
Well, good work anyway.

 

[Killerrabbit]

I'v jist tried this mod.
Installation seems to be a bit complicated, I think usual "make a copy of DD and unpack this archive to it" would be better.
Anyway, Russia starts with Yavlinky as the president. Sweden has no government at all.
I'm not in mood for bug hunting.
Well, good work anyway.

That is exacly why we have a preinstaller and a installer. If you just unpack it into the DD-folder, things get messed up like that. If you are going to unpack, you have to rename/delete a good portion of the folders first. I would regard that as more complicated.