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PackMan

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Emil_s said:
allright. I'll do that to Israeli ministers and leaders

about the name
does the number has a meaning? like, the ID of a minister? or just pick a number? =\

Check the following sticky thread in our own forum for id's used for our ministers and leaders:
MDS Home Forum Index » Modern Day Scenario » MDS Leaders and Ministers » Country tags and ID's

It would be good if you could use those as I or someone else have to change them later on otherwise. Download one of the finished ones to see how they are put together if you still feel uncertain.
 

unmerged(15113)

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almoravid said:
I don't want to sound offensive, but I can hardly believe that anybody ever seriously viewed Norway as a threat since 11th century. But OK, it's your mod, and Spitzbergen could at least hypothetically have some potential for a conflict. What I don't really like on your mod is that it necessarily makes Russia a dictatorship. As an optimist, I see some more ways of our development, and would like your mod better if it was emulated.

So I would propose you that Russia should be able to either become a dictatorship, agressively expand and cause a world war three, or become a real liberal democracy allied with the west, and fragment further.

I think the junction should be something like the 'orange revolution' in Ukraine for Russia, which would happen 2006/2007. The player would choose either to allow the development, or surpress it militarily.

If the first choice is taken...
-The new government can decide to liberate Chechenia or get belligerence and dissent.
-Gets the choice to give Kurilean isles to Japan for investitions (improves infra and industry on pacific coast)
-If they agree, they can get the choice to hand over the Pacific coast to Japan for many resources and major improvements in industry and finances.
-If they agree, there will be demand for a free Yakutia.
-Possible war with China which wants to secure a part of siberian resources for itself.

If they take the second choice...
-Everybody hates Russia, the state propaganda gets anti-western, the (left wing or fascist) radicals come to power (either directly, with a new president, or forming Putin's new cabinet)
-Russia decides to fund a coup in Georgia as a compensation for the war in Iran.
-Russia allies China.
-Russia supports Armenia in a war against Azerbaijan with people and material.
-Russia supports the protestors in eastern Ukraine and annexes it up to Dniepr.
-The international community protests, NATO prepares for war. Norwegians close Spitzbergen for Russian exploitation. We invade Norway, or not.
-If the conflict is resolved by any party folding, the war starts on an invasion of the Baltic states or US invasion of Turkmenistan.

That is what I would propose, and what would IMO make a good mod.

Haha, this is what happens when you don't share your details to the community :)

Ok, the idea goes like this: In late 2005 (or 2006) chechnyan rebels storm the parliament and are able to assassinate Putin and the rest of the parliament by using AK-47s and by blowing themselves up. In the chaos that follows, a handful of politicians (not present at the assassination), policemen and military officials decide to fill the power vacuum before some crazy communist or something does it (they are convinced they are better than communists). So they form an emergency cabinet (with 100% power), moves military units into Moscow (to ensure security of the people in the countrywide chaos, but also to ensure their own power).

A year or two after that, a new assassination attempt takes place (on the emergency cabinet) and they find out that Azerbaijani funding is behind the assassination. They also find out that Azerbaijani funding bribed the guards of the parliament so that they allowed truckloads of chechnyan rebels to enter the building.
This leads to (most likely) a war with Azerbaijan.

In 2008 (Just before the war) the emergency cabinet feel the country has started to settle and will decide if they should continue to stay in power (dictatorship formed) or to restart the election (new president etc).
Depending on what choice they take, the chance of going to war alongside China is changed.

Also, I'm not trying to overestimate Norway here, but we CAN to some damage. Also, one have to personally define what a threat is. If it is a threat to exterminate your country, only the US and possibly China have that kind of threat towards Russia.
But in the modern world, a threat is a threat to your territorial intergrity (which virtually means, a threat that other countries move into your territitory illegally, but not nescessarily an invasion). And if we follow that definition, all nations are able to carry it out.
Now, the only country that is close in doing so is Norway, which use the membership in NATO to add momentum to their plans in the Barents Sea (which is about development of natural resources in territories that the two countries have yet to agree borders on).
This would most likely lead to a small conflict that would perhaps escalate into something bigger.
 

unmerged(17949)

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Just as a quick post, I might add more to this later, Argentina should have the Valseiro Institute(nuclear, mathematics, and that star thingy, maybe, skill 7) and INVAP(Mechanics(that wrench thing), star thingy, industrial, and mathematics, skill 8).
 

brandnew70x7

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Maggern2k said:
Finland would be drawn into the conflict by European mobilization.
I won't state the reason for invasion of norway over and over again. Check the thread yourself guys.

Oh, and nice work on the events guys! These are really helpful!

I would seriously think if Russia was going to start a war it wouldn't be over Svalbard, but more likely the Baltic States or maybe even Finland.
 

unmerged(15113)

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Russia isn't the superpower she once was. I don't think a direct invasion of any NATO country would be remotely logic to do.
And I have the feeling those of you that say this really don't put yourself into the situation. Russia isn't the Soviet Union.
post a two-page summary of the situation you refer to and I'll be satisfied...
 

brandnew70x7

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Yes, but why would they risk an outright war with NATO to attack something as invital as Svalbard? Russia barely knows what resources she has in her own country, I doubt they'd have time to go on an expedition to a far noth island group with a couple thousand people on it. It would be a waste of military resources and an extremely poor political move. The Russians wouldn't be that stupid.
 

unmerged(15113)

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Have you even read what I've written?
Plus, Russia's most important coastline is a couple hundred miles to the south of that island, with the entire northern fleet anchored.
Don't tell me it's just a cold outpost.
Plus, there are lots of resources in the Barents Sea (especially oil).

If Svalbard was completely militarized Norway and the rest of NATO could track every move the Russians did with their navy. And since most of their fleet is there (including most if not all of their ballistic missile subs), I think that's a pretty logic excuse to invade.

Plus, with a few smart political and military moves on the islands, I think they can evade total war.
I doubt Europe will allow Germany and Poland to be turned into a battlefield because of an icy archipelago up north (maybe not even the Norwegians would go to war). It all depends on how Russia handles the situation however. They have to make their point, but make it clear they don't want to go further.
 

unmerged(41817)

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here is a scenario.

another sino-japanese war.

atm the poor IRL relations between the two are not just related to WW2, and japan not acknowledging what it did (in chinese eyes). They are also caused by potentialy oil and natural gas regions in the sea between the two, and a dispute over who owns them (heated).

i say there could be events leading to a sino-japanes conflict.

also a mid-eastern alliance of states, and a middle eastern war, ofc this would be after a series of good storyline events.

maybe even armed conflict in the ukraine between russian and ukrainian troops, which could escalate into a wider conflict.

all would be mirroring what could happen in worst case scenarios in current day events, could be very interesting.

also taiwan and china, and a USvChina conflict.

and lets not forget little North Korea in the mix.

not realy that safe a world when you list all the potential conflicts :)
 

Zuckergußgebäck

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Well Maggern, how about making a small crisis leading up the russian attack, such as NATO placing equipment that might be used to build a sosus system there. Russia feels threatened and sends aircraft to knock out the half-completed installation. Shortly after, russian troops land.
 

unmerged(15113)

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Right. I think we have a small civilian airfield at Longyearbyen. Perhaps new installations here and new radar complexes etc make the Russians think (right or wrong) that NATO is turning the archipelago into, yes, a sosus base. Then an airstrike similar to Israels attack on the Iraqi nuclear reactor to knock out the base (of course with minimal casualties).
And then, as you say, an amphibious invasion.
I like it.
 

Anzu

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Sounds quite fine if you ask me, if you combine it with, say, an agressive, Norwegian oilpolicy in the Barents Sea, with norwegian oilrigs in the disputed territories.

Firstly, after the rig, Russia protests, and after the Longyearbyen airfield, an preemtive strike. Neat!
 

Galleblære

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Maggern2k said:
Right. I think we have a small civilian airfield at Longyearbyen. Perhaps new installations here and new radar complexes etc make the Russians think (right or wrong) that NATO is turning the archipelago into, yes, a sosus base. Then an airstrike similar to Israels attack on the Iraqi nuclear reactor to knock out the base (of course with minimal casualties).
And then, as you say, an amphibious invasion.
I like it.

Except, of course, that Svalbard is considered a part of the Kingdom of Norway, and an attack on Norway would be an attack on all NATO countries. That is a fact, there is nothing disputing that. If the other NATO countries suddenly deceided NOT to support Norway, it North Atlantic Treaty would collapse totally.

I still feel the entire Norway situation is highly dubious, and that Russia showing it's muscles in non-Nato allied former Soviet Republics makes a lot more sense.

As Burris said, Russia is simply risking too much over too little in this scenario.
 

unmerged(31967)

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Neverending discussion...
OK Russia attack non NATO,former soviet countries. But What?
Baltic states are part of the NATO, Ukraine is too big, Belorussia is a "friend",
,The caucasus is not a terrain for any attacks
Middle Asia-there is nothing worthy in it.

The control for the Northern Sea can be a crucial point for Russian politics, since its they only exit to the Atlantic.
So it's not a fully unrealistic scenario.
And this is only a small scale attack on some northern island. I'm sure that NATO will not retaliate instantly with a full scale war to an incident like this.
(The Russian now that). They send the fleet, mobilize and give an ultimatum.
The Russian starts negotiations (both side wants avoid the war), and they agree that Russians whitdraw and NATO don't build there the military facilities they wanted to install (sosus or what you like)
BUT the conflict can grow to a huge war.
 

brandnew70x7

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The only states I could see Russia ever attacking are the Baltics really. Svalbard is much farther north than it's being made out to be... and the Russians wouldn't really have the capabliity to do this. Not to mention i'm having trouble seeing that NATO would actually break a nearly 100 year old treaty and militarise Svalbard. Especially in this day and age where something as pricy as that would be dismissed by almost every country.
 

brandnew70x7

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If that's the case, they obviously haven't done anything to counteract this. So what would lead them to do so in the future? The Russians really don't have much of an issue with the rest of the world at this point. Besides that, now-a-days there'd just be a bunch of diplomatic negotiations. There is NO WAY either side would even allow Svalbard to even escalate a full blown war. This would never ever happen. Both sides are far too intelligent and militarily/politcally savvy and would be able to weigh the risks (Millions and millions dead on both sides, possible nuclear war over an island group) and the positives (None that I can think of...). Either way, there are far more realistic scenarios that could be done in Central Eastern Europe and the Baltics.
 

Galleblære

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samu said:
Neverending discussion...
OK Russia attack non NATO,former soviet countries. But What?
Baltic states are part of the NATO, Ukraine is too big, Belorussia is a "friend",
,The caucasus is not a terrain for any attacks
Middle Asia-there is nothing worthy in it.

The control for the Northern Sea can be a crucial point for Russian politics, since its they only exit to the Atlantic.
So it's not a fully unrealistic scenario.
And this is only a small scale attack on some northern island. I'm sure that NATO will not retaliate instantly with a full scale war to an incident like this.
(The Russian now that). They send the fleet, mobilize and give an ultimatum.
The Russian starts negotiations (both side wants avoid the war), and they agree that Russians whitdraw and NATO don't build there the military facilities they wanted to install (sosus or what you like)
BUT the conflict can grow to a huge war.


For starters, why wouldn't Russia try to resolve a supposed Svalbard situation peacefully? Why go in there guns blazing?

And even though it is a "small scale attack", it doesn't matter. It's an attack on NATO itself. Do you honestly think that Russia would risk this? For all they'd know, there would be stealth bombers on their way moments later taking out strategic airfields, and the whole thing would escelate out of control.
 

Galleblære

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Maggern2k said:
Norway has already put up installations that (or so the Russians claim) can be used for military purposes.

The clue here is the word "can". A civilian airstrip CAN be used for military purposes. Scientific stations CAN be used for military purposes. But the truth is, it's whats been going on between Norway and the former Soviet Union for ages, disputes about fishing zones, resources etc in the arctic. There is no "new" development here.

Also, Norway has commited itself to numoerus international agreements. Just look at all the resistance oil drilling outside Finnmark is getting these days, here at home. I can't see Norway starting any large scale operations outside Svalbard for a long time.