Modern Day OOBs

[unmerged(7557)]

Originally posted by Lunar
Brigade-sized units wouldn't work for the Asian war due to so many damn units. It was already discussed and I simply can't see how China and North Korea would manage their millions of soldiers at a brigade level.

Anyway, feel free to represent independant brigades and whatnot as attached brigades (engineer usually since they have +defense) or combine them into divisions. Take your time, the Polish OOB corrections aren't really needed immediately.

added: I missed your signature earlier, that explains something.

Ok sounds good, however some of the brigades I will probably also suggest as a weakened division. Such as the 6th BDSZ, of the Air Cav. Since these units really cant be used as attached brigades. I will probably suggest something like the 6th BDSZ as a Paratrooper Division at 70-80%. and for the Air Cav as a Airmobile(If you plan on adding it) of similar level.

It may take a bit more time for Navy and Air force. But I will try.

 

[Raczynski]

What about making brigade-sized units "model_0" and division-sized "model_1"? This way important independent brigades can be included even if system is generally divisional

 

[unmerged(16020)]

I've thought of that interesting idea myself, but I think we should plan for division-sized units at this point in time.

 

[unmerged(15893)]

Originally posted by Raczynski
What about making brigade-sized units "model_0" and division-sized "model_1"? This way important independent brigades can be included even if system is generally divisional

It maybe a good idea, but the only problem with that is the AI would always build the latest model (divisions).

 

[Raczynski]

Divisions should have much better firepower and cost only 1-2 IC more. This way human player will not build brigades beacue it simply don`t pay.

 

[unmerged(16020)]

My thoughts were to not allow anyone to build brigades, but simply have them as units starting on the map.

However a this stage I'm really not that interested in the extra work in doing this unit the mod becomes more substantial.

 

[unmerged(15893)]

Originally posted by Lunar
My thoughts were to not allow anyone to build brigades, but simply have them as units starting on the map.

However a this stage I'm really not that interested in the extra work in doing this unit the mod becomes more substantial.

I would have to agree. Adding "brigades" would make things more complicated.

 

[unmerged(7557)]

That is also the magor flaw with a modern day mod. Since NATO and European Doctrines tend not to be as divisional based as Eastern style. The reorganization Poland has went threw in the past 10 years is a good example of it. The army has decreased its size dramaticly as well as rewritten much of the defence plans to coincide with NATO doctrine which calls for rapid reactionary forces, and not bulky divisions. More emphisis was placed on Helipower and Air power as well as air delivery systems of smaller better armed and higher trained troops. In 1990 when I joined the 16th we had sqauds of about 10 men with 1 SAW(Usally RPK-74), and the standard Armaments of Rifles and 2 Grenade Launchers. As well as 2 RPG-7V. Now We have squads of about 6, 2 RPK-74's, 4 Pallad 40mm Grenade Launchers, Usally 6 84mm AT4, and 2 M3 Carl Gustavs. As well as the standard Rifles, Sidearms, ect.

It will be tricky to get the game work right the only NATO nation that I know still puts a lot of emphasis on Divisions is the US. Because they have the manpower to do it.

 

[unmerged(16020)]

Since there is no win-win situation, my vote is to choose the simpler, easier of the two. I also happen to like it for other ideas (far easier to represent numerical superiority etc.).

Poland will have to build up her forces in event of a war, and that will have to be more than one brigade at a time.

 

[unmerged(7557)]

I have no problem either way. Most NATO nations are in the same boat. Just stated the fact that you cant get a really accurate Modern Day mod with the Mechanics HoI gives you. Since NATO is pretty much dropping the magority of Massed Combat with heavy armour and many troops for smaller quicker heavily armed and supported units.

But I'm sure the mod should be fun on any account.

 

[unmerged(15893)]

Originally posted by Scottskofski
I have no problem either way. Most NATO nations are in the same boat. Just stated the fact that you cant get a really accurate Modern Day mod with the Mechanics HoI gives you. Since NATO is pretty much dropping the magority of Massed Combat with heavy armour and many troops for smaller quicker heavily armed and supported units.

But I'm sure the mod should be fun on any account.

You are correct. Brigades would be more accurate with NATO countries, but with the HoI engine, we can't use them. Sorry. i'm sure the mod will be good either way

 

[Buke]

We will have to add brigades at the start but divisions would probably be the best thing to build from then on. Any nation European would rather have a division than a brigade. Brigades are just settled on in Europe right now due to decreased spending. If a major war looms where conscription is needed then Europe will start building Divisions once more.

 

[Moredhel]

Jordan's OOB

Their army is small but has the reputation of well trained and equipped.

Infantry - 88000 (60000 reserves)
General Security Forces and Desert Patrol - 25000

-2 armoured divisions (3rd and 5th armoured divisions)
-2 mechanised divisions (4th and 12th)
-Infantry / Royal Guard brigade
-Special forces brigade (101th special forces brigade)
-5 field artillery brigades

Tanks
High quality.....Total......In Service......Since....Notes
• Al-Hussein......288....... ~140.............1999..Challenger I
• Khalid.............275...........275.............1984..Improved Chieftain
Subtotal............563........~415
Medium and low quality
• Tariq...............290...........290.............1995 Improved
• M60 A1/ A3.....268...........268.............1980 To be upgraded
• Chieftain...........90...............0......................In storage
• M48 A1............212...............0.............1966
Subtotal.............860...........558
Light Tanks
• Scorpion............19.............19.............1990 With Desert Patrol
Total...............1,442........~990


Armoured vehicles

Model.......................................Quantity In service Since Notes
APCs
• M113 A1/A2 M-30, M901 ITV.....1,315.........1,315 1968 Including M106
• Engesa EE-11...............................100............100 1987 With General Security Forces
• Spartan..........................................50.............50..2000 Being upgraded
Subtotal.......................................1,465.........1,465

IFVs
• BTR-94...........................................50.............50 1999 Low serviceability
• BMP-2............................................35.............35 1989
Subtotal...........................................85.............85
Reconnaissance
• AB3 Black Iris.................................38.............38 2001
• AB5 Defender 110.........................14............14 2001
• AB2 al-Jawad...................................4..............4 2001
• Saladin/ Saracen............................60..............0 1963
• Ferret...........................................140..............0 1955 In storage
Subtotal..........................................256............56
Total.............................................1,806.......1,606

Artillery
Model......................Quantity........In service.....Since......Notes
Self-propelled guns and howitzers
• 203mm M-110 A2........128..................128.......1980
• 155mm M-109 A2........220..................220.......1980
Subtotal.........................348..................348
Towed guns and howitzers
• 203mm (8") M-115........25.....................0.......1965
• 155mm M-114...............30...................30.......1970
• 155mm M-59(Long Tom)..10................10.......1965
• 105mm M-102 A1..........50...................50.......1970
Subtotal.........................115...................90
Mortars, under 160mm
• 120mm...........................300.................300........1975
• 107mm M-30..................100.................100........1975 50 M106 SP
Subtotal............................400.................400
Total..................................863.................838


Air Force
Combat Aircraft
Model...........................Quantity...........In service.Since.....Notes
• F-16 A/B.............................16...................16......1997
• Mirage F1-C/E....................29...................25......1981
• F-5 E/F...............................55...................50.......1975 To be upgraded
Total....................................100..................91

Transport Aircraft
Model....................Quantity..........In service.....Since.....Notes
• C-130 Hercules.........5.....................5............1972.....Upgraded
• CASA C-212..............2.....................2............1975
• Challenger 604.........2.....................2............2001......VIP role
• CN-235.....................2.....................2............1998
• Gulfstream III/IV......2.....................2............1986
• L-1011-500..............1.....................1............1984
Total.........................14...................14

Helicopters
Attack
• AH-1G/F/S Cobra....26....................26............1985
Medium transport
• Bell 205/UH-1H.......18....................18............1995
• S-70A Black Hawk.....3......................3............1987
• AS-332 Super Puma.12...................12............1986
Light transport
• Alouette III................1......................1............1977
• MD 500D....................8......................8............1980
• MBB BO-105...............3......................3............With general security forces
• BK-117.......................3......................3
Total...........................74.....................74

Navy
Patrol Craft
Type...........................Quantity......Length (m.) /displacement (t.)......Notes / armament
• Feysal class (Bertram)........4............11.6/8...............................1x12.7mm MGs
• Al-Hussein class (VTHawk)..3..........30.5/124......................2x30mm guns,1x20mm gun,2x12.7mm MGs
• Al-Hashim class (type412)..3............12.7/9..................................In Dead Sea, 1x12.7mm MG
Total 10

Sorry for all this details, I didn't knew if it was important to post them.

 

[unmerged(15893)]

Moredhel, I added your Jordan OOB to the list. Thanks.

 

[unmerged(7557)]

Originally posted by Buke
We will have to add brigades at the start but divisions would probably be the best thing to build from then on. Any nation European would rather have a division than a brigade. Brigades are just settled on in Europe right now due to decreased spending. If a major war looms where conscription is needed then Europe will start building Divisions once more.

Well your partialy right. Decreased Military spending has some to do with it, but NATO doctrine has been completely overhauled in the past 10 years. The focus on Massed Divisions of Armour and Infantry is being downgraded for increased use of Rapid Reactionary forces with High Mobility and support. Instead of a relitivly slow and hard to transport Armored Cavalry division NATO has choosen to Use more Airmobile Heliborne brigades which generally cost more then an Armoured Division. Airborne all through NATO has pretty much evolved to Air Assault units which are Paratroopers trained in both Plane drops and helicopter missions, as well has HALO and HAHO jumps. Tanks and other armoured vehicles in newer NATO doctrines still play a significant role but a decreasing one do to their lower speed. Air Assault units can not only get to an area faster but with less manpower carry heavier equipment. Modern Anti-Tank Missiles like the Rafael Spike system or Javelin system have made tanks much vulnerable on the field. And Air support for NATO is a Must now. Heavy Airsupport. Much doctrine has been shifted to air superiority and bomber support as well as Helo support. Hence smaller yet more powerful units are used.

 

[Moredhel]

Syria's OOB

Their army is big, but since they have too many military debts they can't afford buying new equipment, so most of their equipment is unoperational and outdated. Most of their operational equipment isn't receiving proper service. Also their soldiers is relatively poorly trained.
25,000 soldiers deployed in northern Lebanon, which is almost a puppet of Syria.
Syria has chemical and biological weapons and hasn't signed CWC.Syria signed BWC but didn't ratified it.

Ground forces: 306,000 (100,000 reserves)
Air force: 30,000 (10,000 reserves)
Navy: 4000 (2,500)

Divisions: 12 (7 armoured, 3 mechanised, 1 republican guard(in fact, armoured division), 1 Infantry/special forces)
Independent brigades: 21 (1 armoured, 1 mechanized, 3 Infantry/special forces, 9 airborne/special forces, 2 artillery, 3 SSM forces, 2 anti-tank/infantry)
Note: One armored division is a reserve unit

Tanks
Model...........................Quantity......In service.....Since.......Notes
High quality
• T-72/T-72M....................1,600..........1,600..........1979/1993
Medium and low quality
• T-62...............................1,000..........1,000..........1974
• T-55/T-54....................~2,200..........1,100..........1957....Some upgraded to MV standard
Total...............................~4,800.........3,700
APCs/AFVs
Model...........................Quantity......In service.....Since.......Notes
APCs
• BTR-152........................560...............560..........1967
• BTR-40/50/60.............1,000............1,000..........1956
Subtotal........................1,560............1,560
IFVs
• BMP-1.........................2,450............2,450..........1977
• BMP-2............................100...............100..........1988
Subtotal........................2,550............2,550
Reconnaissance
BRDM-2............................950...............950...........1978
Total.............................5,060.............5,060

Artillery
Model............................Quantity........In service.....Since.....Notes
Self-propelled guns and howitzers
• 152mm 2S3....................50...................50...........1984
• 122mm 2S1..................400.................400...........1982
• 122mm D30....................55...................55...........1986...Syrian-made
Towed guns and howitzers
• 180mm S-23..................10....................10............1975
• 152mm M-1943..............50....................50............1987
• 152mm D-20..................20....................20............1982
• 130mm M-46................800..................800............1970
• 122mm D-30................500..................500............1984
• 122mm D-74................400......................0
• 122mm M-1938............150..................150............1976
Mortars, over 160 mm
• 240mm...........................10....................10............1986
• 160mm...........................80....................80............1976
Total..............................2525................2125

Combat Aircraft
Model..........................Quantity...........In service.......Since.....Notes
Multi-role
• Su-27 SK..........................4........................4...........2001.....Unconfirmed
• MiG-29 SMT....................14.......................14...........2001
Interceptors
• MiG-29 (Fulcrum)............20.......................20...........1987
• MiG-25 (Foxbat).............35.......................35............1980
• MiG-23 ML/MF.................51.......................51............1974
Ground attack
• Su-24 (Fencer)...............20.......................20............1988
• MiG-23 U/BN (Flogger)...56........................56............1978
• Su-20/22 (Fitter C/D)....100.....................100............1978
Obsolete
• MiG-21 MF/BIS/U (Fishbed).~210...........~210...........1966..Some possibly phased out
Total...............................~510..................~510

Transport Aircraft
Model..........................Quantity...........In service.......Since.....Notes
• An-24/26 (Coke/Curl).....6......................6...............1979
• IL-76 (Candid)................4.....................4................1983
• Tu-134............................2.....................2................1985
• Mystère-Falcon 20/900...3.....................3................1980
• Piper Navajo...................2.....................2
• Yak-40 (Codling).............6.....................6................1989
Total................................23...................23

Helicopters
Model..........................Quantity...........In service.......Since.....Notes
Attack
• Mi-25 (Hind).....................52.................52..............1980
• SA-342 Gazelle................38.................38..............1976
Medium transport
• Mi-8/17 (Hip H)..............100................100..............1971
• Mi-2.................................10..................10..............1975
Naval combat
• Ka-28 (Helix)....................5.....................5...............1990
• Mi-14 (Haze)...................20...................20..............1984
Total................................225.................225

Navy
Combat Vessels
Type.....................Quantity Length (m.)/displacement (t.)..................Notes/armament
MFPBs
• Ossa II....................8...........38.6/245................ 4xSS-N-2C Styx SSM,4x30mm guns
ASW vessels
• Petya II...................2............81.8/950.................5-16x400mm torpedoes,4xRBU 2500 ASW mortars,3x76mm guns,22 mines
Mine warfare vessels
• Sonya class (Type 1265)...1...48/450...................2x30mm guns, 2x25mm guns,8 mines
• Yevgenia class...........3.......... 24.6/77.................2x25mm guns,2x14.5mm MGs
Patrol Craft
Type.......................Quantity........Length (m.)/displacement (t.)........Notes/armament
• Zhuk class (Type 1400M)...8........24/39............. 4x14.5mm MGs
Landing Craft
• Polnochny B-class LCT (Type 771).....3...75/760.....180 troops or 350 tons,2x140mm MRLs,4x30mm guns
Auxiliary Vessels
• al-Assad.................1.................105/3,500............Training ship
• Natya (Type 226)...1...................61/804...............2xSA-N-5 (Grail) SAMs,4x30mm guns,formerly a minesweeper,now converted to oceanographic research
• T 43 class..............1....................60/580..............16 mines,4x37mm guns,4x14.5mm MGs
• Poluchat................1...................29.6/100...........2x14.5mm MGs formerly a torpedo recovery vessel

 

[MegaPIMP]

i have a idea!
use milita as brigade units and infantery as divisons

motorised as brigades

mechanized as divisons and so on.

change the costs and attack values etc

 

[unmerged(15893)]

Originally posted by MegaPIMP
i have a idea!
use milita as brigade units and infantery as divisons

motorised as brigades

mechanized as divisons and so on.

change the costs and attack values etc

Then where does Airmobile troops fall into the techtree?

 

[unmerged(18662)]

Hi! Do you have any use of my "OOB"? If not, how do you want it?

/Niklas

EDIT: Sorry i didn't se that you had added it to the top.
If there is anything you miss or are not clear enough, pleace let me know

 

[unmerged(15893)]

Moredhel: I added your Syria OOB, thanks!
Niklas: I added your OOB, and we do have a use for it, thanks!