Modded Resources file

[unmerged(12283)]

I modded the provinces csv to reduce all province resources(oil, coal, steel, rubber) by half (rounded up).

My thought was to increase the value of strategic resources and economics by making them scarcer, and to make it more difficult for smaller countries to grow disproportionately.

If anyone's interested, send me an email, or alternatively if you have half a meg of webspace let me know and i'll send it to you to post.

 

[Aetius]

Originally posted by Sharpei_Diem
I modded the provinces csv to reduce all province resources(oil, coal, steel, rubber) by half (rounded up).

My thought was to increase the value of strategic resources and economics by making them scarcer, and to make it more difficult for smaller countries to grow disproportionately.

If anyone's interested, send me an email, or alternatively if you have half a meg of webspace let me know and i'll send it to you to post.

Note that the problem isn't really the resources in major countries it is the resources in the minors, who often shouldn't have much of worth

Check this site for approximate "real" proportions:
http://members.tripod.com/~Sturmvogel/resources.html

 

[unmerged(12283)]

Re: Re: Modded Resources file

Originally posted by Aetius
Note that the problem isn't really the resources in major countries it is the resources in the minors, who often shouldn't have much of worth

Check this site for approximate "real" proportions:
http://members.tripod.com/~Sturmvogel/resources.html

Hmmm, some of those figures seem suspicious (US produced 60% of the world's oil?)

Never-the-less, I wasn't really thinking of correcting the figures for any kind of historical accuracy, but more so that they would have greater significance in gameplay (and since I don't have any knowledge of actual resource production in that time, i didn't want to presume to alter resources, except uniformily).

In the games I have played, my resources quickly stockpiled to the max(or near max) and resources became really a none-issue.

I played one stand-off game with these resources and nothing terribly exciting happened. However I just started one playing italy and it makes an incredible impact on the game play as I need to actively search for resources just to keep my economy afloat - and the resource bonus gained for annexing a nation is significant. But i think i may have cut too deeply as it's very difficult to keep an adequate supply of resources onhand to maintain 100% industrial production. If anyone wants to give it a go and try it with other nations, the feedback would be most helpful...

 

[Aetius]

Re: Re: Re: Modded Resources file

Originally posted by Sharpei_Diem
Hmmm, some of those figures seem suspicious (US produced 60% of the world's oil?)

They aren't very much wrong, they pretty much match other sources numbers. The US has ridiculous amounts of resources and was in reality the No. 1 source of imported oil for most countries, including Germany and Japan. Remember that none of the arab oil was discovered at this time, which skews the numbers a lot.

To be entirely honest I think you should try and adjust coal and steel first, they are the main culprits of the excess resources IMO

 

[unmerged(12283)]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Modded Resources file

Originally posted by Aetius
They aren't very much wrong, they pretty much match other sources numbers. The US has ridiculous amounts of resources and was in reality the No. 1 source of imported oil for most countries, including Germany and Japan. Remember that none of the arab oil was discovered at this time, which skews the numbers a lot.

I've converted your numbers into Hoi numbers and tomorrow i'll make an attempt at plugging them into the appropriate provinces and then into the game....should be interesting...

 

[Aetius]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Modded Resources file

Originally posted by Sharpei_Diem
I've converted your numbers into Hoi numbers and tomorrow i'll make an attempt at plugging them into the appropriate provinces and then into the game....should be interesting...

They aren't my numbers
I can probably get you some by province as well if you wish. But you need to calibrate the numbers by the total IC (i.e. none of the resources were actually "missing" IRL, so increase the amount of resources to the level where they are not too low)
(the proportions are sort of right but the resource might need to be moved to neighbouring provinces, the low value ones are too high usually though)

Number			Oil	Rubber	Coal
86			20	0	19
87			60	0	0
90			30	0	0
91			0	0	29
92			105	0	0
99			0	0	5
107			2	0	20
108			0	0	5
113	 		10	0	11
116			10	0	0
121			10	0	62
122			5	0	116
137			4	0	0
153			0	0	5
178			0	0	22
181			0	0	83
182			0	0	264
184			0	0	34
187			0	0	52
188			0	0	31
189			0	0	221
194			10	0	0
195			20	0	0
196			95	0	0
203			308	0	29
204			75	0	0
210			10	0	0
211			0	0	52
237			20	0	0
238			6	0	0
276			15	0	0
277			5	0	0
278			10	0	0
281			0	0	9
282			110	0	0
284			15	0	0
292			2	0	0
293			11	0	0
303			0	8	0
310			0	8	0
330			0	3	0
332			0	8	0
333			0	3	0
348			1	0	0
396			12	0	0
486			0	0	28
487			0	0	30
488			0	0	270
489			0	0	30
490			0	0	30
491			0	0	140
497			0	0	30
518			0	0	22
520			0	0	20
529			0	0	15
551			0	0	33
552			0	0	30
554			0	0	20
557			0	0	30
558			0	0	65
559			0	0	65
560			0	0	70
562			0	0	4
570			0	0	1
579			0	0	8
580			0	0	4
582			0	0	65
583			1	0	65
586			1	0	0
603			0	0	60
604			0	0	4
605			0	0	4
606			0	0	11
613			0	0	8
614			0	0	12
615			0	0	13
618			1	0	0
621			1	0	0
622			1	0	0
624			1	0	0
626			0	0	1
629			0	0	1
630			1	0	0
631			0	0	12
633			0	0	1
634			0	0	1
635			0	0	40
638			0	0	11
707			1	0	0
723			0	0	25
725			3	0	0
729			0	0	1
735			0	0	1
739			0	0	1
750			0	0	1
752			0	0	1
754			3	0	1
760			31	0	0
766			2	0	0
770			0	0	30
781			0	0	5
784			0	0	2
843			0	0	2
844			0	0	2
851			0	0	2
852			0	0	2
853			0	0	2
857			0	0	35
859			0	0	30
861			0	0	37
864			0	0	30
871			0	0	1
873			0	0	1
878			0	0	1
882			0	0	1
903			1	0	0
905			0	0	3
926			0	0	5
928			0	0	5
931			0	0	15
956			0	0	18
957			0	0	3
964			0	0	2
975			0	0	1
1042			0	10	0
1063			0	1	0
1065			0	2	0
1115			0	3	0
1118			0	1	0
1120			0	1	0
1126			0	1	0
1129			0	3	0
1171			0	0	5
1172			0	0	5
1175			0	0	30
1185			0	2	0
1186			0	2	0
1189			0	3	0
1192			0	2	0
1212			0	0	1
1216			0	0	1
1222			10	0	0
1228			0	0	2
1235			1	0	0
1240			6	0	0
1248			7	0	0
1258			1	0	1
1259			11	0	0
1262			0	0	1
1267			20	0	0
1304			0	1	0
1311			0	1	0
1348			7	0	0
1349			2	0	0
1356			49	0	0
1359			75	0	0
1360			20	0	0
1366			2	0	5
1380			0	0	22
1397			0	0	13
1405			1	0	0
1409			2	0	0
1478			0	12	0
1480			0	40	0
1521			0	0	40
1524			0	0	2
1529			0	0	2
1530			0	0	2
1535			0	0	2
1538			0	0	2
1540			0	0	2
1558			0	0	40
1559			0	0	20
1563			0	0	5
1565			0	0	4
1569			0	0	3
1571			2	0	0
1582			2	0	0
1594			6	0	0
1607			0	0	6
1618			0	0	3
1620			0	0	3
1622			0	0	3
1623			0	0	20
1625			0	0	4
1634			0	0	2
1636			0	0	2
1648			3	0	0
1658			0	0	1
1661			0	0	20
1684			0	0	20
1693			0	0	4
1710			0	0	4
1716			1	0	1
1732			0	7	0
1733			0	30	0
1734			0	7	0
1735			0	7	0
1736			0	7	0
1745			0	10	0
1747			0	15	0
1760			1	40	0
1762			0	171	0
1765			0	200	0
1767			1	25	0
1768			0	25	1
1773			6	40	0
1774			0	25	1
1779			0	35	0
1780			2	50	0
1785			0	3	0
1787			0	10	0
1788	 		6	10	0
1789			0	10	0
1790			0	3	0
1791			9	0	0
1792			9	0	0
1793			4	3	0
1794			0	3	1
1818			1	0	0
1833			0	0	13
1834			0	0	13
1950			0	20	0
1951			0	25	0
1982			1	0	0
2011			2	0	0
2075			1	0	0
2079			0	0	50
2109			0	0	25

 

[Vulture]

Btw, the USA DID produce nearly 60% of the world's oil

 

[Aetius]

Originally posted by VultureGFF
Btw, the USA DID produce nearly 60% of the world's oil

And had the best refinaries (apart from the Germans, who provided them with the tech) so they actually got about 30-40% more out of each drop of oil than anyone else, so it is actually an even bigger difference if you compare the end product

 

[Vulture]

Yup, concerning the USA, the distribution is fine

 

[unmerged(12283)]

Originally posted by Aetius
They aren't my numbers
I can probably get you some by province as well if you wish. But you need to calibrate the numbers by the total IC (i.e. none of the resources were actually "missing" IRL, so increase the amount of resources to the level where they are not too low)
(the proportions are sort of right but the resource might need to be moved to neighbouring provinces, the low value ones are too high usually though)

Lol, wish i'd seen that before i went to it...

anyways, i just took the rough %s from that page, took the total amount from Hoi and then rebuilt it...

I left rubber alone, and instead concentrated on oil and steel (actually, i averaged the metals in the list, so steel in this file really represents metals). Coal(i got tired of the exercise by that point), i left alone except I reduced world supply by 25%

Total numbers now are somewhere along the lines of:

(World supply New/Old)
Oil: 3200/3200 but the us now has about 60% of market
Metal: 6200/6800
Coal: 10000/12200
Rubber: unchanged

Minor changes, but already noticing more activity on the world trade board, including considerable numbers of unfilled orders.
Rubber and oil are now pretty scarce...

 

[Aetius]

Originally posted by Sharpei_Diem
(World supply New/Old)
Oil: 3200/3200 but the us now has about 60% of market
Metal: 6200/6800
Coal: 10000/12200
Rubber: unchanged

Minor changes, but already noticing more activity on the world trade board, including considerable numbers of unfilled orders.
Rubber and oil are now pretty scarce...

Yes that is what I would do as well. I will try and reduce the coal and "metal" so there are no surpluses caused by minors who shouldn't have the resources in the first place.

On another note:
I would be really thankful for anyone willing to compile lists of coal and metal deposits over the world, i.e. where they are in HoI terms and how large they were, by production. The list is essentially useless without the time aspect. Any resource must have been discovered and exploited by 1941 (just as a guideline). I have searched long and hard for Oil (oil fields, oil shale you name it ) and Rubber (plantations, rubber vines, cacti and so) and in many cases, e.g. Australia and Canada the deposits were known in the 1930's but not exploited.

Anyone willing to take a shot?

 

[unmerged(12283)]

Re: Re: Modded Resources file

Originally posted by Aetius
I would be really thankful for anyone willing to compile lists of coal and metal deposits over the world, i.e. where they are in HoI terms and how large they were, by production. The list is essentially useless without the time aspect. Any resource must have been discovered and exploited by 1941 (just as a guideline). I have searched long and hard for Oil (oil fields, oil shale you name it ) and Rubber (plantations, rubber vines, cacti and so) and in many cases, e.g. Australia and Canada the deposits were known in the 1930's but not exploited.

Anyone willing to take a shot? [/B]

Wish you asked me a few years ago when I worked in research for a primary-industry focused, Venture Capitalist: it would have been pretty simple. Actually, I may still have a giant(36"x60") map of the world emphasizing the development of the petroleum industry....I think it was from 1945 onwards, though. I'll look around and see if i can find it.

I don't know if you've ever seen the maps by the petroleum economist, but they are absolutely incredible...Of course, only those in the industry or independently wealthy can afford the subscription rate, but...

http://www.petroleum-economist.com/contents/publications/petec/

I'm not going to promise anything , but i'll see what i can do...

 

[Aetius]

Re: Re: Re: Modded Resources file

Originally posted by Sharpei_Diem
Wish you asked me a few years ago when I worked in research for a primary-industry focused, Venture Capitalist: it would have been pretty simple. Actually, I may still have a giant(36"x60") map of the world emphasizing the development of the petroleum industry....I think it was from 1945 onwards, though. I'll look around and see if i can find it.

I don't know if you've ever seen the maps by the petroleum economist, but they are absolutely incredible...Of course, only those in the industry or independently wealthy can afford the subscription rate, but...

http://www.petroleum-economist.com/contents/publications/petec/

I'm not going to promise anything , but i'll see what i can do...

Petroleum I think I have accurate numbers on the only thing I know to be missing is the marginal oil production in Aquitaine and in Egypt. I have no idea about the production (or even if it was on-line) in either area. The rest of the world I have all of the numbers for, either with annual production or initial production start. I might be missing some oil sand and oil shale, though. And my numbers might be wrong

Rubber I have good numbers on, the only stuff missing is the marginal production from harvesting wild rubber. But I have little hope of finding any decent numbers for that from 1936

Coal I have decent numbes for the Soviet Union, Western Europe, South Africa, Australia and the USA. Japan I have some numbers on but the problem is the small scale of the production. The rest of the world I have some scetchy numbers on but I don't have the proportions in regions.

Iron and other metals I have scetchy numbers on, but nothing really good.

 

[unmerged(6469)]

You are reducing values in 1.02?

 

[Aetius]

Originally posted by Ryeuken
You are reducing values in 1.02?

Who are you refering to me or Sharpei_Diem?

 

[State Machine]

Originally posted by Ryeuken
You are reducing values in 1.02?

There were no reductions of resource values in 1.02. There was a handfull of increases. Some small amount of rubber in some Chinese provinces and in Liberia IIRC. Maybe some steel and coal someplace...

 

[Vulture]

yes, some steel in northern Finland IIRC

 

[Aetius]

Originally posted by VultureGFF
yes, some steel in northern Finland IIRC

To represent the metals in the area

 

[unmerged(12283)]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Modded Resources file

Originally posted by Aetius
Coal I have decent numbes for the Soviet Union, Western Europe, South Africa, Australia and the USA. Japan I have some numbers on but the problem is the small scale of the production. The rest of the world I have some scetchy numbers on but I don't have the proportions in regions.

Iron and other metals I have scetchy numbers on, but nothing really good. [/B]

I found some good world production numbers at the us geologic survey site, going back to 1900s in some cases; unfortunately, no indication of where they came from, but a good overview of #s and a ratio of us/world production...

check out:

http://minerals.usgs.gov/minerals/pubs/of01-006/

what's particularly cool(IMO), is that they give you the option of xls sheets....

 

[Aetius]

Originally posted by Sharpei_Diem
I found some good world production numbers at the us geologic survey site, going back to 1900s in some cases; unfortunately, no indication of where they came from, but a good overview of #s and a ratio of us/world production...

check out:

http://minerals.usgs.gov/minerals/pubs/of01-006/

what's particularly cool(IMO), is that they give you the option of xls sheets....

Nice,
I think the statistics office of the US Treasury (or like) also has something similar so you can check military spending and so on. Unfortunately this information is lacking or calculated different in different countries, so there is nothing to compare it with

OK what metals do you think would be good to include on the list?
I was thinking on the lines ((Average of world market Share of "strategic metals")+(iron ore))/2.
The following could be on the list of strategic metals:
Copper, Lead, Tin, Zinc, Nickel, Bauxite, Manganese, Tungsten, Chromium, Molybdenum (sp?), Manganese, Vandadium. They need to be "normalised" according to their strategic value so that the ratios are sort of right.
AFAIK Tungsten is mostly used as a hardning agent (in Tungsten Carbide bits for example) so I am not sure of the relative importance of the metal itself (or rather how valuable or rare individual deposits are).