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jordarkelf

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Well I had a quick look up. It does seem like the empire in West Africa is historically known as the Mali Empire. I might suggest seeing if there is a Mandinka word for Empire or Kingdom, but aside from that I think Kingdom/Empire would fit better than Sultanate.

Thanks for being able to respond to all of my questions. It's great to see a modding community as active as this. :D
Kurufaba is the autonym used by the Manden people AFAIK, as in Manden Kurufaba = Manden Empire. But historically the Empire called itself Nyeni after the capital (Niani).
 

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Settle down people, the expert is here :)

I was reading some stuff in the main CK2 forum and it gave me an idea:

Restoration of Jewish Culture

If say, A Khazar ruler restored the kingdom of Israel; Wouldn't he want to unify the returning Jews with a unified culture in addition to religion?

Gameplay wise, I would add a descion that would change the culture of the current Ruler and his most loyal vassals to a new "Israelite" culture. This new culture would use Hebew Localization ofcourse. If possible, could different cultures convert into different versions of this new culture? for example, The Khazars would bring horse archers to the table.

Perhaps a different way, Just one descision that converts to an Israelite culture that has bits and pieces from the returning jewish cultures? This would reflect the different cultures adding their stuff to the table, as it were.

Did Germans try to restore Roman culture after forming HRE (thus restoring the Western Roman Empire).
Did the Turks try to turn Greek after conquering Byzantinium?
Did ERE try to stay Latin?

This really should not happen. It might happen in EU4 and definitely could in Vic2, but in Medieval Era? Nope.

I actually agree more with Nyrael with this one. A sort of Hebrew language restoration is highly unlikely in this time period - it was only really possible in the 18th and 19th century due to higher rates of literacy, fast communication, and the rise of nationalism (which manifested in the Euro-American Jewish community as Zionism). It is more likely, as Nyrael said, that if a Khazar somehow reformed Israel that either Israel would be Khazarized or the Khazars would adopt the culture of the majority Jews there (likely the Levantine Mizrahi Jews). Even if the Kohen Gadol attempted to restore the use of Hebrew, for instance, I would think it would be in limited religious and social contexts, similar to Latin in Catholic Europe or classical Arabic in the Muslim world. I personally think there is nothing to suggest that Hebrew would have to be a uniting language - it could easily be Sephardi if the upper class is dominated by Sephardic Jews, for instance, or German if its Ashkenazi Jews.

That said, I can see the possibility of a melting pot that represents the various Jews making aliyah coming together and... well, blending or what have you, though it would in any case be an extreme abstraction. I'm still not too fond of the idea, though (especially given how messy melting pots can be), but I can throw it in if enough people demand it (and/or if OrdepNM demands it).

What we're talking here is the "Sabra" culture which is currently taking over in Israel. These are jews who were born in Israel (like me) and are no longer immersed in their parent's old cultural traditions. It's quite clear things like Ashkenazi and Sephardi are on their last legs around here as most of the aliyah people grows old while the more recent newcomers Beta Israel are still strong, but the younger people would already be described as Sabra as they lose touch with ethiopia. If it isnt already, Sabra will eventually become the dominant jewish culture in Israel.

Now, like Nyrael said, restoring hebrew as a spoken language in this time period is tricky, too much illiteracy. Maybe it would be introduced into the royal court for written documents only and it would slowly trickle down from the elites to the plebes over a long stretch of time, but thats a big maybe. On the other hand, culture isn't just about a spoken language. Regardless of language, kaifeng jews are gonna start losing touch with chinese costumes over time, and assimilate into, welll... Sabra, so there is something to be said about nsinger's suggestion.

Now as for gameplay, Im not sure I'd want this. While it would be good that jewish rulers wouldn't have the foreigner relations penalty for other jewish cultures (which is not very accurate for jews), it would utterly suck if all sabra courtiers would spam using one and only one portrait set and eventually all but say, the caucasoid Ashkenazi, would exist in Israel. Also this stifles the possibility of several fun flavor events for jews of different cultures interacting with each other, stuff like "some of the new arrivals at your court come from far away Yemen and claim they speak hebrew, but none of us cultured in hebrew can understand what they say. And argument has erupted in your court over who speaks proper hebrew!"; Kaifeng and Bene Israel clash over who has the best asian cuisine! etc.

A better method IMO would be to have it done by trait and event. After some time, the king of Israel gets an event titled "embrace the Sabra culture". If he decides to do so (and he should), he gets a Sabra trait that nullifies the foreigner malus from having a different culture within the israelite group. The trait would be inherited so all sons of Sabras would be Sabras and sabras could convince other non-sabras to stop being bigoted and get the Sabra trait. Like this you also avoid another melting pot (which are messy by definition).

Now, how many times did I say Sabra through this entire post?
 
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Literacy was never an issue among Jews. Even in biblical times; Jews maintained an excellent level of literacy so as to make Torah study easier(among other things). One could argue that Beta Israel and Khazar would have poor literacy rates from being disconnected from mainstream Judaism but would improve over time.
 

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Literacy was never an issue among Jews. Even in biblical times; Jews maintained an excellent level of literacy so as to make Torah study easier(among other things). One could argue that Beta Israel and Khazar would have poor literacy rates from being disconnected from mainstream Judaism but would improve over time.

While jewish educational standards were amazing for medieval Europe, they were nowhere near what you'd need to bring a dead language out of the school books and into people's living rooms. Even in the 19th/20th century with modern school eduction restoring hebrew was an amazing accomplishment only possible with enormous community dedication, devoted organizations and yes, a deal of peer pressure. You would never get that amount of organization in medieval times.
 

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Kurufaba is the autonym used by the Manden people AFAIK, as in Manden Kurufaba = Manden Empire. But historically the Empire called itself Nyeni after the capital (Niani).

Almost anything other than Sultanate would be great. I like to role play bitter religious/cultural rivalries (by Druidic characters hate the Roman's and Catholics to their very core), and I don't think my Empress of Mali would like to use a very Muslim(Arabic?) title like Sultan/a.
 

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I am using the VIET addons for CK2+, but I don't have the Norse portrait pack (I have the rest). I'm trying to do the portrait fix, but it seems I can't do it without the VIET Immersion folder. Any help?
 

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cybr, just wanted to say that I love your mod, to the point that I find myself almost unable to even play CKII without it. :) That was actually a small deliberation I had when I was choosing to play with SWMH or without, in order to use VIET Immersion. I ultimately decided to go without SWMH, as to me, Immersion makes the game into what I've always wanted. I do miss SWMH's better map though, probably more than anything else in the mod. Do you happen to know a quick way I could utilize the map and still get Immersion to work, or are there too many differences in culture and other mechanics between the two mods that any change would have to be extensive?

It might be possible to make them compatible by deleting a number of files (particularly the ones dealing with history and landed titles), though it'll likely be rough and buggy. However, I do plan to make a PB+SWMH compatible version of VIET very soon (hopefully within a month), so players won't have to choose between VIET and SWMH anymore (well, unless if you don't really like PB, but I won't be making a vanilla SWMH compatible version since it means yet another version of VIET I'd have to maintain).


Now I know no one's a fan of giving the Byzantines more OPness, but on the requirements for changing from Agnatic-Cognatic to Absolute Cognatic for a female ruler, the nicknames don't include The Saint or The Glorious. Shouldn't it?

I assume you're playing with PB+VIET? It's a PB thing, actually, so I'd suggest making the suggestion in the PB thread.


Settle down people, the expert is here :)

I thought Sabra was that hummus brand!

sabra-hummus-coupon.jpg


I can get it at several of the local ethnic and even "mainstream" supermarkets where I live.

I like OrdepNM's suggestion, it's a decent compromise in my opinion. I'm not sure whether I'd want to do it through traits (though, maybe I'd have to, since the alternatives I can think of - such as modifiers and crown laws - would be messier), but that aside it would in my opinion allow for more depth than a melting pot per se which as has been mentioned several times is pretty... messy. It would also allow still for there to be flavor stuff surrounding the different Jewish cultures in general.

I am using the VIET addons for CK2+, but I don't have the Norse portrait pack (I have the rest). I'm trying to do the portrait fix, but it seems I can't do it without the VIET Immersion folder. Any help?

The portrait fix is only required if you're using VIET Immersion, since Events and Traits don't include any new portraits.
 

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Hey cybr,
I've finally begun updating my mods.

For the Heretic mod I did, do you have a listing of religions and their heresies in VIET somewhere? Reading the 00_religions.txt gives me a headache this late at night.
Edit: coffee helped. Compatch in the mod post soon now.
 
Last edited:

Angus Wenceslas

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There are two other things that I have noticed while playing that are a bit more obvious. The city of Amalfi is still missing, and the Old Gods start is after the William The Conqueror start in the selection menu. I am pretty sure you have already seen them, but I am just making sure is all!
 

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There are two other things that I have noticed while playing that are a bit more obvious. The city of Amalfi is still missing, and the Old Gods start is after the William The Conqueror start in the selection menu. I am pretty sure you have already seen them, but I am just making sure is all!


The latter is a PB thing, Meneth notes that the Conquerer start is where most of PB's balance focus goes, so it's the default start date instead of TOG.
 

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It's not a problem (much*), just a design choice that cybr copied for VIET.

*It can cause some problems with title ownership since the bookmarks are now not loaded chronologically, and this can mess up history files.
 

OrdepNM

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I thought Sabra was that hummus brand!

Haha I cant believe I didnt make that joke :p It's actually the name of a kind of cactus fruit. Apparently it's a good analogy for the typical israeli personality, ie thorny or pricky in the outside, sweet in the inside :rolleyes:

I like OrdepNM's suggestion, it's a decent compromise in my opinion. I'm not sure whether I'd want to do it through traits (though, maybe I'd have to, since the alternatives I can think of - such as modifiers and crown laws - would be messier), but that aside it would in my opinion allow for more depth than a melting pot per se which as has been mentioned several times is pretty... messy. It would also allow still for there to be flavor stuff surrounding the different Jewish cultures in general.

When I first thought about it I initially thought of an opinion modifier but decided it might work better as a trait because of the possibility of making them hereditary and what have you, plus it might be easier to flag, should you want to make events surrounding it (sabras "converting" non-sabras and maybe tutors given or taking away their wards trait depending on their own stance). Crown laws... wouldn't it make everyone behave the same? I don't think it should be an all or nothing thing, certainly jewish arrivals shouldn't start acting sabra fresh off the boat. Regardless, whatever works I'd say :)

Anyway, it actually seems like a cute mechanic, the foreigner relations malus always bothered me, so I hope you get around to do something like that. I already planned to have the appearance of the sabra culture be a thing in the converter game, but maybe you'll 1-up me on this :p
 

jordarkelf

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WTF is happening with Amalfi? Now the 867 start has eaten the city.
It has to be something with the added buildings in 867 but I've no clue what.

Workaround/fix: open VIET_Immersion\history\provinces\935 - Amalfi.txt in your text editor and make it look like this:
Code:
# 935 - Amalfi

# County Title
title = c_amalfi

# Settlements
max_settlements = 4

b_amalfi=city
b_sorrento=castle
b_ravello=temple

#b_tramonti
#b_positano
#b_castellamare
#b_capri
#b_minori

# Misc
culture = greek
religion = orthodox

# History
867.1.1 = {
	b_amalfi = ct_wall_1
	b_amalfi = ct_wall_2
	b_amalfi = ct_marketplace_1
	b_amalfi = ct_marketplace_2
	b_amalfi = ct_marketplace_3
	b_amalfi = ct_wall_q_1
	b_amalfi = ct_barracks_1
	b_amalfi = ct_training_grounds_1
	b_amalfi = ct_shipyard_1
	b_sorrento = ca_shipyard_1
	b_ravello = tp_shipyard_1
	b_amalfi = ct_trade_post_1
	b_amalfi = ct_trade_post_2
[COLOR="#00FF00"]	b_amalfi = city 
	capital = b_amalfi[/COLOR]
}

898.1.1 = {
	culture=italian
	religion =catholic
}
1066.1.1 = { 
	trade_post = b_musco
}
1076.12.13={
	trade_post = -1
	remove_settlement = b_amalfi
	b_tramonti = city
}
 
Last edited:

Nyrael

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BTW, I noticed once the Latin Empire having the "Mend the Schism" decision. How does it work in-game? Does it cause mass conversion on Orthodox or...?
Speaking about mending, was improving the mending from Orthodox side considered? Like making it more gradual and have Catholics actually try to restore the Papal authority?
 

jordarkelf

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Bugs noticed (other than Amalfi):

-the conversion rate customisation stuff still links to Carpathia name customisation (should open customization.39)
-Events\VIET_Chinese_Flavor.txt: zhongguo.1011 is used twice. The second instance should be zhongguo.1012

Not a bug I think, but an annoyance:
-I played as the independent Italian Duke of Benevento in 867, and got hit with the 'I am Sicilian' event. Not only does this event offer me no choice as to whether or not I want to be a Sicilian instead of an Italian, it also fires far too soon IMO (it should never fire before 1000 or so) and should definitely not fire for me as I have no Sicilian holdings at all. I had to use the console to cheat back my Italian culture.
Main reason I think Sicilian ought never fire in this case is that it represents the Italonorman culture, and has a corresponding name list. In 867 there aren't any Normans in Sicily to be found, just Greeks and Saracens.

--

Suggestion/request: rename the East African Pagan religion to East African, so its name doesn't get ellipses on the character screen and it matches all other pagan religions (which aren't called Pagan).
 
Last edited:

AnaxXiphos

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Oh btw since we're talking about this, any 64x64 versions of the VIET icons you made that you feel like whipping out would also be very well appreciated, otherwise I have to make them myself :p

Heck, any icons you wanna make in this ballpark I can probably use, historical or not so much. With cybrxkhan torturing me with more and more obscure churches and sects I need all the crosses and crescents I can get my hands on :D

(This was posted in ACR's thread, replying to it here since it's about VIET stuff.)

On the topic of converter/flag versions of the new religious icons for VIET: Gnostic is trivial, Yazidi is easy, but Ibadi might be a little tricky. I honestly have no plans to do up flags for any of them unless cybrxkhan specifically requests them, since the existing flags looked fine to me. But I'll see about doing converter versions. At the very least, the only one that requires actual effort is the Ibadi icon.

As for random religion stuff, I tend to prefer having specific goals, but I'll keep that in mind in case I do throw together any thing purely for fun.
 

Comm Cody

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Bugs noticed (other than Amalfi):

-the conversion rate customisation stuff still links to Carpathia name customisation (should open customization.39)
-Events\VIET_Chinese_Flavor.txt: zhongguo.1011 is used twice, both for 'Dynasty member marries Mulan' and 'Mulan rejects'. The second instance should be zhongguo.1012

Adding on to this, Hungary is part of de-jure Carpathia with the no ahistorical-empire fix. Other than that, looks like a good release.
 
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