[MOD] Vanilla Immersion, Events, and Traits - A Modular Flavor and Tweak Mod

[Rakonas]

That would be a pretty cool idea. I don't know how the heck the coding for that would be like, although it would probably be something similar to the Hansa (at least how the republic pops up). I also don't know how really workable that would be - historically, if I am correct, many of the peasant republics got offed pretty quickly. I wouldn't want to have them arise ahistorically, that is, and I wouldn't want it to be a gimmicky thing. I think it would be cooler to implement rising republics in general, where certain regions meeting certain criteria could have a republic pop up, and different circumstances would lead to different styles of republics. So basically what I'm thinking is that a "peasant" republic might be good, but it'll basically still arise similarly (and perhaps function *somewhat* similarly) to other republics, only with different prerequsites. If that makes any sense? I've put rising republics on my to-do list, anyways. Probably in the far future, though.

Historically I can think of 3 revolts which I had in mind, the English Peasants Revolt of 1381, the Jacquerie, and the Flemish Revolt 1323-1328. All of them had significant impact, the first causing the death of several councillors and nearly succeeding if not for the monarchy secretly murdering the leader during peace negotiations, the second caused a ton of chaos though I can't remember why it failed, and the third succeeded, with Flanders some kind of independent peasant republic (led by a rich farmer) by 1325. Flanders was suppressed, of course, fending off one army from the king of france and falling to the second.
I think of it as a way of making rebels in provinces more dangerous than burning a few buildings and maybe killing a few peoples. It definitely shouldn't be a gimmicky thing, but a rare event I agree. I really like the idea of different types of republics, as currently they're much too straightforward. Either they're the 'conquer all the coasts and become insanely rich' type or the 'vassal and therefore unable to expand much' type. Personally I want more republics which aren't trade-oriented and republic flavour like that one guy who led a revolt in Rome against the papacy and tried to re-establish the Roman Republic.

 

[HabemusZlatan]

Hey Cybr, since you have a De Jure Bulgarian Empire I was wondering if it was possible to add the counties of Temes, Pest and Transylvania into De Jure Bulgaria just to add some danger to Hungary (although a Bulgaria owning all its De Jure territory plus the duchy of Adrianopolis is no match for Hungary+Croatia). Apparently the Bulgarians lost those areas less than 100 years before 1066 and what the hell I just want the De Jure map to look more yellow and the Bulgarian Empire to look like a proper empire rather than a glorified kingdom.

 

[jordarkelf]

The Frisians also come to mind, with Fryske Frijheid. It seems that historically the rabble always want to establish republics. Another thing like that happened in France and the English Colonies...

(Edit: was reply to Rakonas)

 

[yezhanquan]

Historically I can think of 3 revolts which I had in mind, the English Peasants Revolt of 1381, the Jacquerie, and the Flemish Revolt 1323-1328. All of them had significant impact, the first causing the death of several councillors and nearly succeeding if not for the monarchy secretly murdering the leader during peace negotiations, the second caused a ton of chaos though I can't remember why it failed, and the third succeeded, with Flanders some kind of independent peasant republic (led by a rich farmer) by 1325. Flanders was suppressed, of course, fending off one army from the king of france and falling to the second.
I think of it as a way of making rebels in provinces more dangerous than burning a few buildings and maybe killing a few peoples. It definitely shouldn't be a gimmicky thing, but a rare event I agree. I really like the idea of different types of republics, as currently they're much too straightforward. Either they're the 'conquer all the coasts and become insanely rich' type or the 'vassal and therefore unable to expand much' type. Personally I want more republics which aren't trade-oriented and republic flavour like that one guy who led a revolt in Rome against the papacy and tried to re-establish the Roman Republic.

As it stands now, CK2 is a character-driven game, where the characters rarely interact with the peasantry except through events. Serious revolts are the result of gross mismanagement and the unwillingness to fix such mismanagement, and until we can work that into the current mechanics, revolts will just be a whack-a-mole part.

 

[cybrxkhan]

I'm almost done with the Hormuz Republic as well as the Indian courtiers (sort of like Jewish courtiers, except only in merchant republics in the Indian Ocean, also because I decided to have one Indian merchant family in Hormuz, to make things interesting (for those worried about historical accuracy, a lot of Indian merchants operated in this corner of the world, so it's justifiable to some extent)). I'll post screenshots once I'm done coding and testing, hopefully tonight.

Waiting for vanilla bugs to be squashed and new additions for all mods! (Doesn't help that my bud asked, nay, BEGGED me to return to WoW to be his tank.) Personally interested in the new republics, but feedback on vanilla has been rather...disappointing.

It's just been a week, so hopefully PI will release a hotfix soon. Hopefully.

Historically I can think of 3 revolts which I had in mind, the English Peasants Revolt of 1381, the Jacquerie, and the Flemish Revolt 1323-1328. All of them had significant impact, the first causing the death of several councillors and nearly succeeding if not for the monarchy secretly murdering the leader during peace negotiations, the second caused a ton of chaos though I can't remember why it failed, and the third succeeded, with Flanders some kind of independent peasant republic (led by a rich farmer) by 1325. Flanders was suppressed, of course, fending off one army from the king of france and falling to the second.
I think of it as a way of making rebels in provinces more dangerous than burning a few buildings and maybe killing a few peoples. It definitely shouldn't be a gimmicky thing, but a rare event I agree. I really like the idea of different types of republics, as currently they're much too straightforward. Either they're the 'conquer all the coasts and become insanely rich' type or the 'vassal and therefore unable to expand much' type. Personally I want more republics which aren't trade-oriented and republic flavour like that one guy who led a revolt in Rome against the papacy and tried to re-establish the Roman Republic.

The Frisians also come to mind, with Fryske Frijheid. It seems that historically the rabble always want to establish republics. Another thing like that happened in France and the English Colonies...

(Edit: was reply to Rakonas)

A more dangerous sort of peasant revolt would be good. I remember there was a mod that did something about that, though I don't remember. The only problem is that most peasant "republics" wouldn't necessarily be coastal, anyways, and they wouldn't really fit the maritime republic style of play, which PI seems to be focused on for the Republic expansion. That said I don't see anything against having them pop up like normal county-level or duchy-level non-maritime Republics (Switzerland comes to mind). I dunno how easy that would be to code, though - basically ideally a normal "revolt" establishes a new republic in the province after occupying it for a year or something unlike in vanilla -, which is why that would probably be a long-term plan.

Hey Cybr, since you have a De Jure Bulgarian Empire I was wondering if it was possible to add the counties of Temes, Pest and Transylvania into De Jure Bulgaria just to add some danger to Hungary (although a Bulgaria owning all its De Jure territory plus the duchy of Adrianopolis is no match for Hungary+Croatia). Apparently the Bulgarians lost those areas less than 100 years before 1066 and what the hell I just want the De Jure map to look more yellow and the Bulgarian Empire to look like a proper empire rather than a glorified kingdom.

Yeah, Sleight of Hand suggested the same, earlier, and I've added Temes and Transylvania into the Kingdom of Wallachia/Dacia (that's included in the Empire of Bulgaria) for VIET 1.1.0. I do want to keep Bulgaria as one of the smaller Empires, though, to give them a unique situation (also to make it a tad easier for the AI to form if at all).

 

[yezhanquan]

Actually, I still have no idea how successful revolts in vanilla AND PB look like. Are they supposed to do something?

 

[richvh]

In the master "can't create trade post" thread Doomdark said he's aiming for a patch late next week.

 

[cybrxkhan]

Actually, I still have no idea how successful revolts in vanilla AND PB look like. Are they supposed to do something?

I haven't seen too many successful revolts; actually I thikn I probably only saw one or two so my memory may be wrong, but I *think* after a year (?) a new count appears in the occupied province (?).

In the master "can't create trade post" thread Doomdark said he's aiming for a patch late next week.

Oh, goody. That gives people some time to test out the new version of VIET (hopefully) before the new patch.

 

[jordarkelf]

I dunno how easy that would be to code, though - basically ideally a normal "revolt" establishes a new republic in the province after occupying it for a year or something unlike in vanilla -, which is why that would probably be a long-term plan.

Hmm, scope to any_holding = { type = CITY } and make them inherit the county title they're in?
Does any_holding or random_holding exist?
Would be a bitch to code, I might try it just for the challenge if I find the inspiration and time (seriously, I should stop taking on new challenges/projects and finish my current stuff first, but it's more fun to do new things all the time and nobody is paying me anyway).

 

[Rakonas]

Actually, I still have no idea how successful revolts in vanilla AND PB look like. Are they supposed to do something?

I'm 99% sure that they only ever do something in certain mods. I remember totally ignoring all revolts unless they were in the way of my troop movements in many playthroughs.

 

[cybrxkhan]

Alright, I've managed to successfully add in the Hormuz Republic, sans a few minor bugs here and there. Awesome.

Next up, all the other ones, although to save on time for the ones I'm making myself I'll only add in family histories for the 1066 start (so these Republics won't be "playable" like Ancona in the post 1080 starts though you can console switch to the randomly generated families).

Does any_holding or random_holding exist?

I have no idea, to be honest. I'm still relatively speaking a CKII modding noob at this point.

I'm 99% sure that they only ever do something in certain mods. I remember totally ignoring all revolts unless they were in the way of my troop movements in many playthroughs.

Yeah, revolts don't really do much most of the time. Even if they did something a passing army would eventually fight and defeat them.

 

[richvh]

Neither any_holding nor random_holding exist (easy to tell by opening up ck2.exe in notepad++ and search for the strings) but you can use any/random_demesne/realm_title = { tier = baron is_republic = yes } (I don't think type = city works here)

 

[ChildeR]

Actually, I still have no idea how successful revolts in vanilla AND PB look like. Are they supposed to do something?

In vanilla there's an event for a rebel province defecting - it only affects isolated, non-coastal provinces that are fully rebel-occupied. It's events 80062, 58, 57 in events/rebel_events.txt

Unfortunately, it seems to use a hardcoded rebel_defection = yes effect, so not very moddable.

 

[ChildeR]

Neither any_holding nor random_holding exist (easy to tell by opening up ck2.exe in notepad++ and search for the strings) but you can use any/random_demesne/realm_title = { tier = baron is_republic = yes } (I don't think type = city works here)

How about any_province_lord = { limit = { is_republic = yes } ...

 

[HabemusZlatan]

Yeah, Sleight of Hand suggested the same, earlier, and I've added Temes and Transylvania into the Kingdom of Wallachia/Dacia (that's included in the Empire of Bulgaria) for VIET 1.1.0. I do want to keep Bulgaria as one of the smaller Empires, though, to give them a unique situation (also to make it a tad easier for the AI to form if at all).

Cool, can't wait for 1.1.0 then. What's your stance on other empires though? Like, the Russian, the Scandinavian, the Italian and the French one being possible empires at all really bothers me, as well as Britannia being possible for any culture when it should be limited to Celtic ones (at least imho).

 

[Sleight of Hand]

...as well as Britannia being possible for any culture when it should be limited to Celtic ones (at least imho).

Saxon, too. You can argue about English/Norman by all means, but there's no doubt that numerous Saxon kings had imperial ambitions (pretensions, even) and there's good evidence (titles, coinage, etc.) to suggest that a Saxon ruler with the required political capital would have indeed declared himself as such. We can argue about the exact nomenclature, but if you have a look at the sort of titles certain Saxon rulers gave themselves (particularly as Wessex started to swallow up more territory and became England) you can very much see this coming to the fore.

I don't want to go off on a tangent about this, though, and it has been discussed in-depth elsewhere.

 

[HabemusZlatan]

Saxon, too. You can argue about English/Norman by all means, but there's no doubt that numerous Saxon kings had imperial ambitions (pretensions, even) and there's good evidence (titles, coinage, etc.) to suggest that a Saxon ruler with the required political capital would have indeed declared himself as such.

I don't want to go off on a tangent about this, though, and it has been discussed in-depth elsewhere.

Bretwalda meant "King of the Britons" so why the hell not. Just maybe they could get a Bretwalda imperial-tier title insted of the Celtic High King and Saxons are cool with me. Just no Normans/English.

 

[Sleight of Hand]

Bretwalda meant "King of the Britons" so why the hell not. Just maybe they could get a Bretwalda imperial-tier title insted of the Celtic High King and Saxons are cool with me. Just no Normans/English.

I had just added a bit more to that post actually, but yes, by all means restrict it to Celts and Saxons. I'm always skeptical about imperial titles (though Britannia does have precedent, albeit in a purely pre-1066 fashion) and the closest we have to an English monarch declaring himself an emperor would be Henry VIII, and that's not quite in the same context.

EDIT: In a medieval sense I mean. I realize there's James I later on, etc.

There were English kings with imperial 'reach' -- such as William I & II having nominal suzerainty over Scotland at various points, the Angevin 'empire' and Edward Longshanks' temporary unification of Great Britain -- but these are all de facto rather than de jure examples of imperialism; these kings did not declare themselves emperors or attempt to restructure their realms along traditional imperial lines; for example Wales was simply annexed into England.

 

[HabemusZlatan]

Well, history is full of big enough kingdoms being considered empires - Like Cnut's North Sea Empire, Kalmar Union or Poland-Lithuania that, de jure, weren't.
This is also why I'm personally against imperial titles like Francia, Russia, Scandinava, Poland-Lithuania, Etelkoz and Italy (last three are frequent in mods, with Etelkoz being the most ridicolous one I've ever seen) while I'm in favor of titles like Hispania (it was an imperial title used by both catholics and muslims), Britannia (high kings and bretwaldas only), Bulgaria (it was the third christian emperor in europe for a time), Persia and the Islamic Caliphate (or Arabian Empire or whatever). Oh, and Ethiopia.
There are also other examples - Like Brian Boru being declared Emperor of the Scots, but that is rather silly and I'll include that in "king tier titles that sound badass" like Mansa.

 

[benuminister]

I was wondering if you could add in traits which maker a character secretly another faith. Such as a Muslim pretending to be Catholic or a Pagan who's following Orthodoxy while maintain their own religious beliefs.