[MOD] Vanilla Immersion, Events, and Traits - A Modular Flavor and Tweak Mod

[cybrxkhan]

Announcement/Contest/Shameless Attempt at Self-Promotion:

The VIET thread has almost reached 200 pages, something very few mods manage to achieve, amazingly enough.

So, it's time for an old VIET tradition, the post-the-Xth-post-and-get-a-prize thing. Simply, whoever posts the 4000th post in the VIET thread (the number you see in the upper right hand corner of a post) gets a little prize. This time the prizes will be a little different; rather, the winner will have a choice between three things:

• Tell me what music module you want, and I'll add it for the next non-themed update. (As in, instead of having me put your suggestion in my notes, you get first pick.) Note that music has to be within reason, of course, heavy metal or Beethoven sonatas obviously won't work. Do note also that this may be difficult for me to do as some music types aren't easy to find online.
• Tell me what sort of flavor events you want, and I'll add it for the next non-themed update. (As in, instead of having me put your suggestion in my notes, you get first pick.) They have to really be simple flavor events though, nothing complex like a Guelph and Ghibeline event chain for instance - so stuff like flavor events for Italian characters, flavor events concerning cows, flavor events for characters with the kind trait, etc.
• Or, the good old prize - make your own easter egg character (you, custom character, favorite movie character, etc.) and put I'll put them in any available barony (castle, city, or temple) in a province of your choosing that is unoccupied in either the 867 or 1066 start. Obviously characters have to be within reason - a Catholic Italian character in southern France is okay, a West African Pagan Japanese character in Khazaria is not.

I decided to not do this for the 3000th post/150th page since 150th page sounds kind of lame, and also because the VIET thread's been getting enough posts per day that it's not as necessary anymore.

That makes sense. I just delete the CBs when playing Norse because it makes for some odd AI behavior. They have to go to war every 2 years. The AI preference appears to be Subjugation - Conquest - Raid. However, they are kind of picky about subjugation and tend to not use it too much on equally matched targets. But, when they don't have the conquest CB, rather than moving on to raid, they use subjugation when they normally wouldn't. Every petty king gets a free subjugation CB against an entire kingdom and his one lifetime subjugation. There really isn't much difference if you aren't playing one of them. It just looks like the Norse are fighting as normal. But, when you are one of them, you want to tell them to knock it off and just go loot France or something. Although, I'll admit that my current game is something of an anomaly as every Viking with a pulse decided to plan an invasion of the British Isles. It's a bit hard to tell from the screenshot, but England is completely overrun. Ireland is close to getting there. Pictland remains Scottish and there are a couple of Welsh and Cornwall counties remaining for now.

It would be so much easier if raiding were a normal CB, then I could just jack up the AI weight on it.

So far in VIET I'm somewhat satisfied with the current pagan CB balance. I say somewhat because I still feel there's something off, mainly because of subjugation, but I'm not really sure whether there's much I can do at this point and I'm afraid if I try something it's going to be worse.

Generally though I admit that, like Meneth, I don't tend to worry too much about the balance for the 867 start, preferring to focus on the 1066 start, for various reasons, so I'm not as certain about the balance in the 867 start as the 1066 start.

I haven't played as everything in the latest VIET versions. I don't recall anything from the Zoroastrians. The great sacrifice for pagans might be one to consider making a minor decision as it's fairly frequent.

Ah, yes, the great sacrifice. I can downgrade that.

 

[OrdepNM]

I decided to not do this for the 3000th post/150th page since 150th page sounds kind of lame, and also because the VIET thread's been getting enough posts per day that it's not as necessary anymore.

Yes and besides, I was the one who "won" that one, we wouldnt want that to happen now, would we? :glare:



*aims sniper rifle at the post counter*

 

[Jak9090]

anyone know if compat with newest ck2+

 

[cybrxkhan]

Yes and besides, I was the one who "won" that one, we wouldnt want that to happen now, would we? :glare:



*aims sniper rifle at the post counter*

We shall see about that!

anyone know if compat with newest ck2+

I already answered ontheprevious page, but it looks like my response got buried in the posts.

But anyhow yes it should be.

 

[unmerged(633385)]

Generally though I admit that, like Meneth, I don't tend to worry too much about the balance for the 867 start, preferring to focus on the 1066 start, for various reasons, so I'm not as certain about the balance in the 867 start as the 1066 start.

Don't worry about balance. When I want that, I play PB. The 867 start makes for a fun sandbox start to do crazy things for the lulz. It's not more unbalanced in VIET than it is in vanilla, except for the Hungary bug. I'll probably mess around with the become king ambition. I might be able to fix that by making it less likely that the AI will choose it.

Anyway, about this contest, what kind of limits are we talking about here with the easter egg character? If I win, are you going to put Jar Jar Binks in a random barony?

 

[cybrxkhan]

Anyway, about this contest, what kind of limits are we talking about here with the easter egg character? If I win, are you going to put Jar Jar Binks in a random barony?

Jar Jar Binks is off limits since... well, he's even further in the realm of fantasy than SI. As said, they have to be within culture and religious reason to an extent. You can choose which barony/province, although of course it has to be available in the first place - several provinces do have baronies with randomly generated barons (these tend to be provinces with more holdings, such as the ones in Italy or Egypt, for instance), and most cities do, which is why if the castle requested isn't available as well as the nearest backup castle, I'll just go to the closest available city.

So for example if we're talking about fictional characters, you could, say, have an Italian culture Sopranos character in one of the southern Italian baronies (there's quite a lot of free ones available) or a Harry Potter character of Norman or Anglo-Saxon culture in England.

In terms of limits, I'm okay with having the cultures be slightly off, but within reason. So for instance an Italian in southern France, a Greek in Armenia, or a Berber in Mali is fine because while unusual that wouldn't be impossible or even implausible historically. However, an Italian in Armenia, a Greek in Mali, or a Berber in southern France, while possible, is highly unlikely, so that would be considered off limits.

Hope that makes sense?

 

[Saintrl]

Actually all of them are things other religions have (except the jewish one which is meant to get some laughs out of people), as I said I wasnt exactly trying very hard here, and always expected to go back to this once I actually got a stable version going. I dont see how gaelic is broken tough, sure its gonna be a drag to sigge their provinces, but it'll always be a matter of time. The idea I'm going for is an Ireland or Scotland thats a defensive powerhouse against the english dominance in the region.

I agree nestorians and miaphysites are bland (need to think about it) and brythonic may be abit OP, but then again no more than the norse faith so meh...

Regardless, Im open to suggestions, Im not exactly an EU balance expert myself.

I guess I could do a little research into this stuff and assign stuff slightly based on history.

Nestorian (and all sects derived from heresies) should get a -1 Heretic Tolerance (they're heresies duh). Of course, this means they'll get some sweet bonuses but what exactly I'm not sure. In my map however (and historically I believe) they were situated in and around Persia so perhaps some bonus that'll make sense for that region. Also recommended that any heresies that are added in be removed from the list of heresies that already exist in vanilla so no weird duplicate name rebellions occur.

Ok my suggestion:

Nestorian
-1 Heretic Tolerance
+1 Heathen Tolerance (They were a sometimes accepted minority in Zoroastrian Persia)
+2% Missionary Strength when converting non-christian provinces (not to be confused with Local Missionary Strength)
Halved relations penalty from Orthodox and Miaphysite Christians (they consider Nestorians to be heretics)

The idea here is that Nestorian nations will usually be in the east surrounded by hostile nations of other religions. However if you survive and make it into Christian Europe you'll be in for a rough time. (That way people who try to import Sartaq Khan will be in for a surprise.)

Jewish seems fine really and, assuming you can take advantage of the trade bonus, you could be on-par with muslim countries (although piety mechanics make muslims quite strong). Perhaps they could also use the piety mechanic though? This would require adding flavor events however for piety to make sense with a different religion.

I don't know much about this but the default is incredibly boring.

Miaphysite
+1 Own Tolerance
Defensiveness +10%
Halved relations penalty from Orthodox and Nestorian Christians (they consider Miaphysite to be heretics)
I promise you I didn't just copy paste. Look closely again.

For Gaelic Druidism just tone down defensiveness to +10%. +50% is insane. It's like taking the unreformed pagan attrition bonus in CK2 and multiplying it by 5. EXTEMELY unbalanced, especially since wherever they establish themselves it'd be almost impossible to oust them.

I concede that I was wrong about Brythonic Druidism being broken. I was confused because I knew that the muslim Piety mechanics can give you +1% Land Morale so I thought adding 25% was insane. Then I looked at saw the Aztecs +50% and I realized that I was wrong.

 

[OrdepNM]

Thanks, I'll definitely take alot from this post in the next update

Any reason why you give the nestorian faith extra missionary strenght? As I said, I need to read up in nestorianism and miaphysitism before I decide on it but I like your suggestions, especially the miaphysite ones.

Urgh, I have to admit that Im not sure what I was thinking giving 50% defensivenes bonus to gaelics. In fact I was so distracted I didnt notice it as I was copying the code That is indeed beyond absurd. I believe I had it at 20% and for whatever reason I changed it. I still would like to keep it as their biggest strenght and as such keep it somewhat above other defensive bonuses, but I may tone it down to 15% is 20 still plays too unfairly.

The brythonic faith is kinda where I want it to be, tough Im sure Ill still tweak it.

Regardless, as I said my nr 1 concearn up to this point was actually getting the faiths (and everything else) to actually show up in the comverted file, woth the gameplay bonuses, specially in the case of nestorian and miaphysite, being an aftertought. Right now Ive decided to work o bringing the heresies into the game and after that I'll have to figure a way to make each one unique in its own way. Not gonna be easy, but hey, its gonna be pretty awesome.

Thanks for the help regardless

 

[Saintrl]

Thanks, I'll definitely take alot from this post in the next update

Any reason why you give the nestorian faith extra missionary strenght? As I said, I need to read up in nestorianism and miaphysitism before I decide on it but I like your suggestions, especially the miaphysite ones.

Urgh, I have to admit that Im not sure what I was thinking giving 50% defensivenes bonus to gaelics. In fact I was so distracted I didnt notice it as I was copying the code That is indeed beyond absurd. I believe I had it at 20% and for whatever reason I changed it. I still would like to keep it as their biggest strenght and as such keep it somewhat above other defensive bonuses, but I may tone it down to 15% is 20 still plays too unfairly.

That 2% Missionary strength may have been a bit too arbitrary. It can be replaced with Defensiveness +10% or something (going with the theme of surviving in an oppressive society). I'm not sure if that 2% missionary strength (not local missonary strength once again) can even be implemented in the religion file.

Ja, that +50% was absolutely insane. Leave it at +15% if you wish, I think that is bearable for the abusive AI.

 

[Jorlem]

What changes would I need to make to the event for the formation of Hungary, to ensure the Maygars loose their old land? It makes playing in the region that much more difficult, and rather not have to wait for 1.4.2.

 

[cybrxkhan]

Preview of the Ethiopian portrait set for VIET 1.4.2, also posted in CPR.



I remember someone requested it a while back (I think it was Jaidal or Polskers?), so you can be happy now.

What changes would I need to make to the event for the formation of Hungary, to ensure the Maygars loose their old land? It makes playing in the region that much more difficult, and rather not have to wait for 1.4.2.

Assuming you're using the vanilla version of VIET, go to "mod/VIET Immersion/events" and open up "misc_old_gods_events.txt."

Find the following event:

# Special event for the Magyars to form Hungary
# Triggered by Decision: create_hungary
narrative_event = {
	id = 62910
	title = EVTNAME62910
	desc = EVTDESC62910
	
	picture = GFX_evt_council
	border = GFX_event_narrative_frame_diplomacy
	
	is_triggered_only = yes
[...]

Scroll down a bit and you'll notice these certain lines of code repeat several times:

					kingdom = {
						OR = {
							title = k_taurica
							title = k_ruthenia
							title = k_cuman
							title = k_alania
							title = k_rus
						}
					}

Add in the following lines to every instance of that:

					kingdom = {
						OR = {
							title = k_taurica
							title = k_ruthenia
							title = k_cuman
							title = k_alania
							title = k_rus
[COLOR="#FFA500"]							title = k_novgorod
							title = k_kiev
							title = k_vladimir
							title = k_galich[/COLOR]
						}
					}

You could also remove k_ruthenia and k_rus from there, but it's not necessary. Anyhow, basically this tells the events to account for the new de jure changes. Make sure you edit every instance this part of the code repeats.

Hope that helps.

 

[Heatth]

Hello. I am planning on playing a Muslin next. I've never really done a Muslin game before because I keep hearing how decadence is broken and that you need to game the system to go by. So, how is decadence working in this mod, with PB+VIET(all modules)? Does it play fine in a reasonable way?

On a somewhat related matter, how are the Mongol invasions? In my last game (a few versions ago) the Il-Khanate expanded into Russia instead of into Persia/middle east, which is kinda annoying as it prevented the Golden Horde and resulted in a almost underwhelming Mongol invasion.

 

[cybrxkhan]

Hello. I am planning on playing a Muslin next. I've never really done a Muslin game before because I keep hearing how decadence is broken and that you need to game the system to go by. So, how is decadence working in this mod, with PB+VIET(all modules)? Does it play fine in a reasonable way?

The basic mechanics behind decadence still work more or less the same as they do in vanilla for PB+VIET, so there isn't a complete revamp of the system like in CKII+. However, PB (and VIET to a lesser extent) has taken some steps to reduce huge decadence gain for no reason.I don't know exactly how much saner decadence is in PB+VIET compared to vanilla CKII, but I do know for certain that Meneth has taken some steps to make sure it's still better than in vanilla.

Perhaps some of the PB+VIET veterans can provide some better input.

On a somewhat related matter, how are the Mongol invasions? In my last game (a few versions ago) the Il-Khanate expanded into Russia instead of into Persia/middle east, which is kinda annoying as it prevented the Golden Horde and resulted in a almost underwhelming Mongol invasion.

In VIET 1.4.0 I introduced a few measures to encourage the AI Mongols to spread to the "correct" region, so the Ilkhanate will tend to target the Middle East and the Golden Horde Russia. I don't know how effective my measures were, however. I only have one test game to base the results on, unfortunately, but if we go by that the results were good (the Ilkhanate and Golden Horde were where they should be), so hopefully that also applies to all games in general.

 

[Heatth]

Thanks for the quick reply. I guess I will pop up in the Pb thread to see/ask what the measures to change the decadence were.

Oh, another quick question, if you don't mind. I noticed that in my game the spread of the Turkish culture in Anatolia is very slow. Only 6 provinces by 1282, even though the conquered most of it in the initial war and never lost anything. WAD? My game are some versions old, though (from just before the Ethiopian overall, I believe).

 

[cybrxkhan]

Thanks for the quick reply. I guess I will pop up in the Pb thread to see/ask what the measures to change the decadence were.

Oh, another quick question, if you don't mind. I noticed that in my game the spread of the Turkish culture in Anatolia is very slow. Only 6 provinces by 1282, even though the conquered most of it in the initial war and never lost anything. WAD? My game are some versions old, though (from just before the Ethiopian overall, I believe).

I know in PB the spread of Turkish culture in coastal Anatolian provinces should be rather slow, while the spread in inland Anatolia should be fast. I've copied most of that code into VIET so it should be similar in VIET. Culture spread is a bit slower in VIET, though, so that might account for why it's slower, although come to think of it I never paid attention to culture spread much in any of my games so I don't recall exactly what's the typical situation for Anatolian culture in PB+VIET or VIET.

 

[unmerged(633385)]

In the screenshots I posted last night, I said not to worry about Thessalonika because a reload would probably fix the issue. It didn't. I'm not sure what happened a Frankish adventurer invaded the ERE and won. Instead of his troops disbanding, he kept them and just sat there with a 26K stack doing nothing. I have no idea if it's a vanilla bug or VIET. Just reporting it in case it crops up for someone else.

 

[Heatth]

I know in PB the spread of Turkish culture in coastal Anatolian provinces should be rather slow, while the spread in inland Anatolia should be fast. I've copied most of that code into VIET so it should be similar in VIET. Culture spread is a bit slower in VIET, though, so that might account for why it's slower, although come to think of it I never paid attention to culture spread much in any of my games so I don't recall exactly what's the typical situation for Anatolian culture in PB+VIET or VIET.

Well, the turks own all Anatolia and then some. Only these 6 provinces converted (all inland). Maybe you made the conversion too slow in VIET? Not sure what would be appropriate, though, so I might be wrong.

 

[cybrxkhan]

In the screenshots I posted last night, I said not to worry about Thessalonika because a reload would probably fix the issue. It didn't. I'm not sure what happened a Frankish adventurer invaded the ERE and won. Instead of his troops disbanding, he kept them and just sat there with a 26K stack doing nothing. I have no idea if it's a vanilla bug or VIET. Just reporting it in case it crops up for someone else.

Dunno how VIET would be causing that, but I'll make a note of that. I'm making a guess it's a vanilla bug having to do with CBs or troop spawns and such, but who knows.

Well, the turks own all Anatolia and then some. Only these 6 provinces converted (all inland). Maybe you made the conversion too slow in VIET? Not sure what would be appropriate, though, so I might be wrong.

I just calculated how long it would take for the coastal Anatolian provinces to spread on average (other factors such as stewardship, etc. ignored), it's about 550 years. Ouch. I'll see if I can reduce that a bit for the next version of VIET. It does appear to be the default in PB rather than a VIET thing, though, so I'd recommend also suggesting to Meneth to slightly reduce the time for Turkish provinces to convert as well.

 

[Jak9090]

We shall see about that!



I already answered ontheprevious page, but it looks like my response got buried in the posts.

But anyhow yes it should be.

awsome, sorry for the double post.

 

[das]

Hello! Very interesting mod; lots of interesting options to try out, though for now I'm sticking to Persia.

I am curious though, as to whether or not you have any plans for added Russian content (i.e. not just religious Slavic stuff). Also, I want to know if it's okay to suggest stuff like music and events outside of the contest (obviously with fewer guarantees of it ever actually being implemented) - or if you're busy enough with things you want to add as it is.