[MOD] Vanilla Immersion, Events, and Traits - A Modular Flavor and Tweak Mod

[cybrxkhan]

Cybr, what I do in BLC (and Lux) is to copy in the portrait definitions from the DLCs to the mod portraits_sprites.gfx, so instead of crashes you get the infamous black box as the portrait.

Oh, okay. Black boxes are better than CTDs, I guess. I'll look into that for the next update.

Not to speak for him, but in the alchemy event chain I'm working on for you, it stands to reason Albertus won't show up in wartime. A solitary alchemist wouldn't venture near a war if he could help it. On the other hand, I could distinctly see (and will write, now that I think of it) at least a few merchant events that only trigger in wartime. You'd expect a group of well-heeled merchants to offer you a one time special deal of money out of their coffers in an attack on the country, or a merchant who comes to town selling luxury goods for cheap prices that raise specific values (a fine bolt of Venetian silk to raise a woman's regard for a male ruler; a dictionary on Greek-Latin terms that improves Learning by a slight amount, etc).

Wait a moment, you're working on something for me now? :wacko: (I mean I don't recall that... not that I mind, of course!)

 

[ChildeR]

2. I don't get what you mean here. What sort of event are you talking about?

3. What sort of events are you talking about? And why these events? I'm generally hesitant to modify vanilla events, but I can modify my own newly added events.

Instead of a decision to get a claim for the empire, I think it would make sense for there to be an event that would fire on battle won, like e.g. the bravery event in vanilla. Armchair generals with high prestige wouldn't get claims, but those successfully leading troops would. (Thinking of Alexios here.)

Regarding peace vs. war, it would be more flavorful to get the sort of events like your "just rule" event only during peace time. Those minor events also tend to be a distraction, when you are defending against a mongol invasion. Meanwhile, there's often months or years of peace during which you get no events.

 

[Onedreamer]

I interpret cynical differently. To me a cynical ruler is not manipulative and exploiting, but rather tired and weary of the world, unhappy or disapproving with how it is structured. Such a ruler might not necessary feel like exploiting others - such rulers might, instead, be very peace-minded and good, unwilling to take advantage of others - they simply don't like the way the rest of the world is. What you're talking about is basically what ambitious is, in my opinion, a ruler who is willing to do what it takes to get what he or she wants.

As for cruel, that makes sense, actually. I can put that in for the next version. (Of course, I don't want to have too many traits possible - the whole point of this trait limitation is not only for roleplaying, but also a balance tweak to reduce the frequency of holy wars - but adding in cruel should be fine, I think.)

Your description of the cynical trait is more suitable to a slothful character. I remind you that the modifiers for Cynical are +2 Intrigue and -something for Piety. Which suits perfectly the cynical trait because a cynical person isn't one that is tired of the world and peace minded, cynical is someone who has come to dislike what the general opinion consider the social values, he doesn't believe in anything widely recognized (penalty to Piety) and because of this one becomes quite seclusive and intolerant/irritable (+Intrigue), it's quite hard to imagine a cynical person to be peace minded, a peace minded person is someone who is at rest with the world while a cynical is the exact opposite. Your description at best suits a cynical and content person ingame. Now, about ambitious I did speak of the cynical trait in conjunction with ambitious or cruel, meaning that a person that is both cynical and ambitious or cruel would certainly go for a religious war, however with your set up it can't. Keep in mind that cynical alone would not be enough for a ruler to start a religious war, but at the same time it shouldn't be exclusive, because a cynical most likely will recognize the #1 value in the world and in the game, which is to use game terms: "gold is good".

 

[Bertouch]

Wait a moment, you're working on something for me now? :wacko: (I mean I don't recall that... not that I mind, of course!)

Yes, events. Look up further in the thread, starting on the first page. I asked if you wanted any. You replied, yes. I've asked questions along the way questions relevant to them, once or twice. If I've misunderstood you, and all you want is to have people say, "Give us events about X, Y, and Z," then you have my apologies. Just let me know to stop, because I'm writing out the narrative and dialog for them--knowing that the final decision as to what words get in resides entirely with you.

 

[Bertouch]

I'm getting random crashes, so I've been checking out the mod against PS. A couple of questions:

Are you aware you have a 00_religions.txt with no content?

Also, I thought you'd stated VIET wasn't adding banners and coats of arms. But I find the Core module has many gfx/flags targa files. These *do* conflict with PS. I'm not sure why you're adding these, so I thought I'd inquire. These could be the source of of the random CTDs, when VIET is used in conjunction with PS.

 

[cybrxkhan]

Instead of a decision to get a claim for the empire, I think it would make sense for there to be an event that would fire on battle won, like e.g. the bravery event in vanilla. Armchair generals with high prestige wouldn't get claims, but those successfully leading troops would. (Thinking of Alexios here.)

Regarding peace vs. war, it would be more flavorful to get the sort of events like your "just rule" event only during peace time. Those minor events also tend to be a distraction, when you are defending against a mongol invasion. Meanwhile, there's often months or years of peace during which you get no events.

OKay, I see. Makes more sense now. I'll have to think about that. It isn't a bad idea, certainly.

Your description of the cynical trait is more suitable to a slothful character. I remind you that the modifiers for Cynical are +2 Intrigue and -something for Piety. Which suits perfectly the cynical trait because a cynical person isn't one that is tired of the world and peace minded, cynical is someone who has come to dislike what the general opinion consider the social values, he doesn't believe in anything widely recognized (penalty to Piety) and because of this one becomes quite seclusive and intolerant/irritable (+Intrigue), it's quite hard to imagine a cynical person to be peace minded, a peace minded person is someone who is at rest with the world while a cynical is the exact opposite. Your description at best suits a cynical and content person ingame. Now, about ambitious I did speak of the cynical trait in conjunction with ambitious or cruel, meaning that a person that is both cynical and ambitious or cruel would certainly go for a religious war, however with your set up it can't. Keep in mind that cynical alone would not be enough for a ruler to start a religious war, but at the same time it shouldn't be exclusive, because a cynical most likely will recognize the #1 value in the world and in the game, which is to use game terms: "gold is good".

I don't think cynical is someone who disregards social values, but rather sees through them so he or she is able to see when others are trying to manipulate them through social values - that's how I interpret them. They're not someone who is orisn't at rest with the world per se (that's content vs. ambitious), but rather they don't approve of it. This has nothing to do with whether they are kind or evil (remember, kind and cynical are not opposites - there's a reason for this!) However, ultimately, I think we'll just have to agree to disagree about our interpretations of cynical. If you really don't like what I've done, feel free to change the code yourself.

Yes, events. Look up further in the thread, starting on the first page. I asked if you wanted any. You replied, yes. I've asked questions along the way questions relevant to them, once or twice. If I've misunderstood you, and all you want is to have people say, "Give us events about X, Y, and Z," then you have my apologies. Just let me know to stop, because I'm writing out the narrative and dialog for them--knowing that the final decision as to what words get in resides entirely with you.

Oh. I see. I thought we were just talking about idea brainstorming or at most narrative-writing rather than actual event-coding and the like.

But that's fine, I can use help anyways, I don't really mind, I was just a little confused there. Of course I'll have to process through any events you do and modify them but otherwise I don't mind. As you probably understand this is still more or less a one-man show for now, which is why I'm hesitant to have others code events in particular for me (might not really work with what I have in mind, see) - that said, it's all really fine anyways, and I'm more than happy if you're willing to lend a hand, just understand that I'll probably modify whatever you do anyways to my liking so it fits what I envision for the mod.

I'm getting random crashes, so I've been checking out the mod against PS. A couple of questions:

Are you aware you have a 00_religions.txt with no content?

Also, I thought you'd stated VIET wasn't adding banners and coats of arms. But I find the Core module has many gfx/flags targa files. These *do* conflict with PS. I'm not sure why you're adding these, so I thought I'd inquire. These could be the source of of the random CTDs, when VIET is used in conjunction with PS.

The 00_religions.txt with no content is WAD, so long as the other religions text files are there. PB does something similar anyways.

Well, I need new coats of arms for the new titles. I may have added a bunch of the PB ones into CORE and Immersion by accident when I was trying to figure out some issues - I'll remove thme for the next update.

As for the crashes, the flags technically shouldn't be a problem. Do you have an error log or reporudiceable saves?

 

[Bertouch]

But that's fine, I can use help anyways, I don't really mind, I was just a little confused there. Of course I'll have to process through any events you do and modify them but otherwise I don't mind. As you probably understand this is still more or less a one-man show for now, which is why I'm hesitant to have others code events in particular for me (might not really work with what I have in mind, see) - that said, it's all really fine anyways, and I'm more than happy if you're willing to lend a hand, just understand that I'll probably modify whatever you do anyways to my liking so it fits what I envision for the mod.

Sure thing.

The 00_religions.txt with no content is WAD, so long as the other religions text files are there. PB does something similar anyways.

The thing is, PS has a 00_religions.txt file with content. One potential source of conflict might be your blank file version of the same thing. I'm not sure how this works in CK2, but if two files adjust the same object or value in Oblivion or Fallen Enchantress, even if one is empty, then they're in conflict. Depending on which is read last, it sets the rules.

As for the crashes, the flags technically shouldn't be a problem. Do you have an error log or reporudiceable saves?

I don't know where an error log would be, and can't find one, but I can shoot you a saved game that CTDs more than half the time in 1069. I'm running Family Relations, PS 1.05, and all your modules; nothing else. Where do you want the save emailed?

 

[cybrxkhan]

Sure thing.

I also want to add I do have some experience doing collaborative modding, and it never works well when everyone is given too much autonomy, so that's another reason why I want to have good control about what goes in and out of this mod. Sorry if that sounds rude or anything. Regardless, to put it in CKII terms, I want Absolute Crown Authority when it comes to VIET.

I don't know where an error log would be, and can't find one, but I can shoot you a saved game that CTDs more than half the time. I'm running Family Relations, PS 1.05, and all your modules; nothing else. Where do you want the save emailed?

The error log is in Documents/Paradox Interactive/Crusader Kings II/logs (or something like that) - there's a file that's error.log or something, a text file. If there's crash, make sure you get the error log immediately afterwards (if you load up the game again, it clears out the previous error log); since it's a text file you can easily attach it to a post here or simply put up the text in a post.

As for saves, I won't' be able to look at it for at least half a week (I'm away from home, and the laptop I'm using technically can run CKII, but it's somewhat laggy and takes forever to load into vanilla - frankly I'm surprised this laptop runs Oblivion better than it runs CKII, although granted the graphics are amusing bad even by my low standards). Still, you can either attach one here (they don't take up much room, and I'll tell you when I've downloaded it so you can remove it) or you can upload it to a file hosting site like mediafire. If you really would prefer email, you can send it to [got the email already].

 

[Bertouch]

I also want to add I do have some experience doing collaborative modding, and it never works well when everyone is given too much autonomy, so that's another reason why I want to have good control about what goes in and out of this mod. Sorry if that sounds rude or anything. Regardless, to put it in CKII terms, I want Absolute Crown Authority when it comes to VIET.

I fully understand. I've been the same way on my mods, in the past. I will consider suggestions, but implement only those that fit my goals, and want complete control over everything. Sometimes collaborative mods work, but like you, I've watched far too many pull apart and achieve nothing.

The error log is in Documents/Paradox Interactive/Crusader Kings II/logs (or something like that) - there's a file that's error.log or something, a text file. If there's crash, make sure you get the error log immediately afterwards (if you load up the game again, it clears out the previous error log); since it's a text file you can easily attach it to a post here or simply put up the text in a post.

I can't even launch the last saved game at this point; it crashes. But the error.log doesn't reflect this.

As for saves, I won't' be able to look at it for at least half a week (I'm away from home, and the laptop I'm using technically can run CKII, but it's somewhat laggy and takes forever to load into vanilla - frankly I'm surprised this laptop runs Oblivion better than it runs CKII, although granted the graphics are amusing bad even by my low standards). Still, you can either attach one here (they don't take up much room, and I'll tell you when I've downloaded it so you can remove it) or you can upload it to a file hosting site like mediafire. If you really would prefer email, you can send it to *****.

It's on its way. I'm not sure what's going on.

 

[cybrxkhan]

I can't even launch the last saved game at this point; it crashes. But the error.log doesn't reflect this.



It's on its way. I'm not sure what's going on.

Alright, thanks for the save. Unfortunately, I won't be able to look at it for several days (well, I already said that, didn't I?) but I will anyways once I get home.

In the meanwhile, have you tried running it without Patrum Scuta? As you know although you've run it fine before others haven't, so perhaps that's the cause of the CTDs this time?

 

[richvh]

Might want to edit out your email so bots can't harvest it.

 

[cybrxkhan]

Might want to edit out your email so bots can't harvest it.

Thanks. I don't use that one that often so it isn't that much an issue, but thanks regardless.

 

[Bertouch]

In the meanwhile, have you tried running it without Patrum Scuta? As you know although you've run it fine before others haven't, so perhaps that's the cause of the CTDs this time?

I've tried with PS and without; with FR, and without; without both of them; removing any combination of PS, FR, and your Immersion and Events modules. No luck. The last save won't load. I'm also finding the last autosave before that won't load, though I haven't tested it with all configurations. Played fine, saved (seemingly) fine. But I get CTDs when I try to load them, now.

Starting a new game isn't an issue.

 

[Bertouch]

Started up a new game, only with your modules and Family Relations, and got a CTD in 1068. Can't load the saved game, or the saved games from several months before that. Here's the error log contents:

Spoiler

[id.cpp:83]: Failed to create id 20825 45. Already exists in game.
[id.cpp:83]: Failed to create id 20832 45. Already exists in game.
[id.cpp:83]: Failed to create id 20842 45. Already exists in game.
[id.cpp:83]: Failed to create id 220842 45. Already exists in game.
[id.cpp:83]: Failed to create id 420842 45. Already exists in game.
[id.cpp:83]: Failed to create id 32957 45. Already exists in game.
[id.cpp:83]: Failed to create id 32958 45. Already exists in game.
[id.cpp:83]: Failed to create id 32962 45. Already exists in game.
[id.cpp:83]: Failed to create id 32963 45. Already exists in game.
[id.cpp:83]: Failed to create id 32964 45. Already exists in game.
[id.cpp:83]: Failed to create id 32965 45. Already exists in game.
[id.cpp:83]: Failed to create id 32966 45. Already exists in game.
[id.cpp:83]: Failed to create id 32967 45. Already exists in game.
[id.cpp:83]: Failed to create id 32968 45. Already exists in game.
[id.cpp:83]: Failed to create id 32969 45. Already exists in game.
[id.cpp:83]: Failed to create id 32970 45. Already exists in game.
[id.cpp:83]: Failed to create id 32971 45. Already exists in game.
[id.cpp:83]: Failed to create id 32972 45. Already exists in game.
[id.cpp:83]: Failed to create id 32978 45. Already exists in game.
[id.cpp:83]: Failed to create id 32979 45. Already exists in game.
[id.cpp:83]: Failed to create id 32980 45. Already exists in game.
[id.cpp:83]: Failed to create id 32981 45. Already exists in game.
[id.cpp:83]: Failed to create id 32982 45. Already exists in game.
[id.cpp:83]: Failed to create id 32983 45. Already exists in game.
[id.cpp:83]: Failed to create id 32984 45. Already exists in game.
[id.cpp:83]: Failed to create id 32985 45. Already exists in game.
[id.cpp:83]: Failed to create id 32986 45. Already exists in game.
[id.cpp:83]: Failed to create id 32987 45. Already exists in game.
[id.cpp:83]: Failed to create id 32988 45. Already exists in game.
[id.cpp:83]: Failed to create id 32989 45. Already exists in game.
[id.cpp:83]: Failed to create id 32990 45. Already exists in game.
[id.cpp:83]: Failed to create id 32992 45. Already exists in game.
[id.cpp:83]: Failed to create id 32993 45. Already exists in game.
[id.cpp:83]: Failed to create id 32994 45. Already exists in game.
[id.cpp:83]: Failed to create id 32995 45. Already exists in game.
[id.cpp:83]: Failed to create id 32996 45. Already exists in game.
[id.cpp:83]: Failed to create id 32997 45. Already exists in game.
[id.cpp:83]: Failed to create id 32998 45. Already exists in game.
[id.cpp:83]: Failed to create id 32999 45. Already exists in game.
[id.cpp:83]: Failed to create id 33000 45. Already exists in game.
[id.cpp:83]: Failed to create id 33001 45. Already exists in game.
[id.cpp:83]: Failed to create id 33002 45. Already exists in game.
[id.cpp:83]: Failed to create id 33003 45. Already exists in game.
[id.cpp:83]: Failed to create id 33004 45. Already exists in game.
[id.cpp:83]: Failed to create id 33005 45. Already exists in game.
[id.cpp:83]: Failed to create id 33006 45. Already exists in game.
[id.cpp:83]: Failed to create id 33007 45. Already exists in game.
[id.cpp:83]: Failed to create id 33008 45. Already exists in game.
[id.cpp:83]: Failed to create id 33009 45. Already exists in game.
[id.cpp:83]: Failed to create id 33010 45. Already exists in game.
[id.cpp:83]: Failed to create id 33011 45. Already exists in game.
[id.cpp:83]: Failed to create id 3853 45. Already exists in game.
[id.cpp:83]: Failed to create id 3855 45. Already exists in game.
[id.cpp:83]: Failed to create id 3856 45. Already exists in game.
[id.cpp:83]: Failed to create id 224000 45. Already exists in game.
[id.cpp:83]: Failed to create id 224005 45. Already exists in game.
[id.cpp:83]: Failed to create id 155007 45. Already exists in game.
[id.cpp:83]: Failed to create id 155021 45. Already exists in game.
[id.cpp:83]: Failed to create id 155022 45. Already exists in game.
[id.cpp:83]: Failed to create id 155026 45. Already exists in game.
[id.cpp:83]: Failed to create id 155027 45. Already exists in game.
[id.cpp:83]: Failed to create id 73655 45. Already exists in game.
[id.cpp:83]: Failed to create id 73656 45. Already exists in game.
[id.cpp:83]: Failed to create id 73657 45. Already exists in game.
[id.cpp:83]: Failed to create id 73658 45. Already exists in game.
[id.cpp:83]: Failed to create id 73659 45. Already exists in game.
[id.cpp:83]: Failed to create id 73660 45. Already exists in game.
[id.cpp:83]: Failed to create id 73661 45. Already exists in game.
[id.cpp:83]: Failed to create id 73662 45. Already exists in game.
[id.cpp:83]: Failed to create id 73663 45. Already exists in game.
[id.cpp:83]: Failed to create id 73664 45. Already exists in game.

So, basically, the message "failed to create ID XYZ. Already exists in game."

 

[cybrxkhan]

@Bertouch: I just quickly looked at CKII's files, and it seems that these IDs are character IDs, specifically from the Maghreb Arabic characters (for vanilla). In VIET some of these guys probably have been turned into Berbers. Why this is causing CTDs I don't know - the Maghreb Arabic and Berber character files from VIET should be overriding the ones from the vanilla game, but for some reason they're not, which causes the game to think there's two of several Maghreb Arabic/Berber characters, and thus causes CTDs (duplicate IDs = bad bad bad).

Anyhow, this might not work, but try to delete maghreb_arabic.txt and berber.txt from mod\VIET Immersion\history\characters - what I think this should do is remove the changes to Maghreb characters (that is, shifting some to Berber culture and so forth) and setting them to default (if it does work, the only drawback is that there won't be any Berber characters in the history files, but whatever). See if that works.

 

[Bertouch]

@Bertouch: I just quickly looked at CKII's files, and it seems that these IDs are character IDs, specifically from the Maghreb Arabic characters (for vanilla). In VIET some of these guys probably have been turned into Berbers. Why this is causing CTDs I don't know - the Maghreb Arabic and Berber character files from VIET should be overriding the ones from the vanilla game, but for some reason they're not, which causes the game to think there's two of several Maghreb Arabic/Berber characters, and thus causes CTDs (duplicate IDs = bad bad bad).

Anyhow, this might not work, but try to delete maghreb_arabic.txt and berber.txt from mod\VIET Immersion\history\characters - what I think this should do is remove the changes to Maghreb characters (that is, shifting some to Berber culture and so forth) and setting them to default (if it does work, the only drawback is that there won't be any Berber characters in the history files, but whatever). See if that works.

Didn't work on any of the saved games. Can't load them at all.

 

[cybrxkhan]

Didn't work on any of the saved games. Can't load them at all.

I don't think it would work on saved games as those already have the previous character changes, but it might work on new games. Unfortunately it'll be a bit difficult to tell how well it works. Can you try running a new test game with those two files removed? Appreciate it much if you do - CKII takes forever to load on this laptop so I won't really be able to test it.

 

[Bertouch]

I don't think it would work on saved games as those already have the previous character changes, but it might work on new games. Unfortunately it'll be a bit difficult to tell how well it works. Can you try running a new test game with those two files removed? Appreciate it much if you do - CKII takes forever to load on this laptop so I won't really be able to test it.

I'll try out one more game, and report back in a bit.

 

[Bertouch]

Good news so far: it's August 1069, and no crashes.

The less-than-good news: a Norse Pagan duke revolted against my Christian monarch, declaring the latter a pretender, and claiming Sweden. After calling in some allies, my monarch completely won the war. But even though I have low crown authority, and I should be able to revoke a title of the duke, my nobles will regard me as a tyrant if I do, and the button to do so is grayed out. I'm told my king has a truce with the duke, and so there's no reason to revoke anything.

If I raise crown authority to medium, I'm now told my nobles won't care about his losing a title since the duke's a traitor, but I still can't revoke it. Truce in effect.

Any idea what's going on?

 

[cybrxkhan]

Good news so far: it's August 1069, and no crashes.

The less-than-good news: a Norse Pagan duke revolted against my Christian monarch, declaring the latter a pretender, and claiming Sweden. After calling in some allies, my monarch completely won the war. But even though I have low crown authority, and I should be able to revoke a title of the duke, my nobles will regard me as a tyrant if I do, and the button to do so is grayed out. I'm told my king has a truce with the duke, and so there's no reason to revoke anything.

If I raise crown authority to medium, I'm now told my nobles won't care about his losing a title since the duke's a traitor, but I still can't revoke it. Truce in effect.

Any idea what's going on?

It seems the issue here is that revocation can't happen when there's a truce - however this has happened in my non-VIET games too, and I assumed it was WAD. You said before you haven't played much for the past couple of patches, so perhaps it's a new rule added by vanilla?

Also I'm adding the issue with the Maghreb and Berber characters to the bug section. It doesn't seem to have caused issues for others yet, but I'l'l add it anyways just in case - I think Sarog might have had a similar situation a while back.