Ichi no Hito
- Aug 24, 2012
is min an empire in the mod? in that case, dali and vietnam might also need to be upgraded to empires.
Min will be an empire during the IC start (along with Later Tang, Later Jin, Later Shu, Wu, and Southern Han (and several others that aren't going to be around in the IC start due to existing before or after it)) because they're claiming to be the emperor of China at that point and thus should be Chinese Imperial with the standard pretender mechanics enabled (e.g. the Mandate of Heaven and CBs for (re)conquering China), which are set up to only work for emperor-tier titles. It would not be straightforward to change the relevant mechanics to work for king-tier rulers for a number of reasons I'll refrain from listing here, and we don't want to arbitrarily prevent any of the pretenders from having access to the mechanics in question as chances are there will be people that want to play as them and that want to try to reunite China when doing that, particularly considering that the person who pulled it off is nine years old at the time of the IC start and that his family hasn't thrown its proverbial hat into the proverbial ring yet and that the underdog pretender empires (with the possible exception of Later Tang, which will start out fighting a losing war that'll result in its absorption into Later Jin if they lose) thus start in a comparatively better position to try.
Dali wasn't yet a thing in the IC start (it was still Da Yining at the time, with Duan Siping preparing to overthrow that regime; he starts with a claim on his liege, as the target of a failed abduction attempt by his liege, as the rival of his liege, and as someone that's been fired from the council, so he should start a faction and press the claim rather quickly in AI hands), and considering Dali had good relations with Song and spent basically the whole of Song's existence as a Song tributary (minus a few years towards the end when they had been conquered by the Mongols, who kept the existing regime around as Maharajas of Yunnan) I'd not characterize them as a pretender empire (and having them as one would probably cause Dali to go up in flames quickly because their Mandate rating would drop like a stone due to being tiny, Buddhist, a tributary, etc.). Even Nanzhao, which didn't play nicely with Tang, didn't claim the Dragon Throne as far as I'm aware, so the Trebizond precedent (and the precedent that is the whole "petty king" mechanic for small "kingdoms") makes it seem like it is perfectly fine to keep them as a king-tier title.
As for Vietnam/Annam, they'll be freshly independent from Southern Han in the IC start (with Southern Han possibly having a claim as a result; it depends on whether we decide to consider Annam a former tributary or a former vassal; considering Southern Han tried to subjugate them the latter is reasonably likely to be what we go with) and as they had no real interest in taking over all of China I'd not consider them a pretender empire. I'll admit the rulers there claimed to be emperors (at least for parts of the era; from what I remember they and China kept disagreeing on just what title was to be used and they sometimes tried to be more appeasing by not claiming to be an emperor), but considering the gameplay impact of having permanent de jure claims on Champa (which they didn't make significant gains against during the era) and other issues arising from being emperor tier I'd say keeping them as kings is a good idea, with the Trebizond precedent being invoked again.
I'll also add various realms in Korea to the list of realms that certainly shouldn't be pretender emperors, and I'd say that they're considerably more likely to be upgraded to emperor-tier than Vietnam or Dali considering that both Silla and Goryeo controlled basically the whole of the de jure of Korea, but as they kept being successfully bullied by Liao, Jin, Yuan, and possibly other dynasties in China and sometimes tried to appease them I'd say there are arguments for not making them an empire, too.
Also, the Far East already start with a lot of non-nomadic emperor-tier rulers compared to the rest of the map in most starts (looking at 1066 we have Song (China), Japan, Bagan (Burma), Srivijaya (Nusantara), the Khmer Empire, and possibly Liao (if they are set to settle ASAP), with Jin being likely to form and Xia being likely to be upgraded to emperor tier in the future due to historically being a pretender empire and thus probably deserving those mechanics, while the only non-nomadic vanilla empires are the HRE and the ERE), so it would devalue the tier quite a bit if we added a bunch of more emperor-tier rulers, particularly as it'll also make it easier for non-emperors to get a claim or an inheritance on an empire.