morlund

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Update: Same game, the Chinese Emperor converted to Nestorian a little while back and after a series of revolts many of the counties are converting as well. It's now just a Feudal Empire. This is a weird game yo.
 

Silversweeeper

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Update: Same game, the Chinese Emperor converted to Nestorian a little while back and after a series of revolts many of the counties are converting as well. It's now just a Feudal Empire. This is a weird game yo.

Sometimes CK2 just decides that history was boring and decides to shake things up. Unless you're doing a lot to influence things, it would be interesting to get some updates on how much of a monster China becomes when they've got access to holy wars and plenty of targets for them.
 

morlund

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About that... their targets are looking pretty limited these days heh
china_is_scary.png

They are still big enough to put up a good fight though so I'm avoiding a direct attack. They never seem to want to go help out their tributaries in defensive wars so I'm thinking I'll take U-Tsang next.

Also, some sort of display error going on. Japan's name isn't showing up which makes them look like a tributary, but they are independent (and still theocratic) and suzerain of Jin and Silla. Maybe its because the current dynasty name is simply "O" and the game doesn't know what to do with that.
 

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Keizer Harm

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About that... their targets are looking pretty limited these days heh
View attachment 507627
They are still big enough to put up a good fight though so I'm avoiding a direct attack. They never seem to want to go help out their tributaries in defensive wars so I'm thinking I'll take U-Tsang next.

Also, some sort of display error going on. Japan's name isn't showing up which makes them look like a tributary, but they are independent (and still theocratic) and suzerain of Jin and Silla. Maybe its because the current dynasty name is simply "O" and the game doesn't know what to do with that.
Impressive! Looks like you could be the first one to do a World Conquest on the Tianxia map!
 

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I'm certainly going to try but getting enough troops to some of the island nations, especially Japan and England, is going to be quite difficult. Capturing the Maldives was tedious, and I lost that purple island up in the arctic to a damn peasant revolt because I physically couldn't get to it.

I've captured a merchant republic that popped up in the duchy of Funie in Manchuria (same religion thankfully) and subjugated Amalfi, so I have ports in both halves of the map, but still pretty limited boat-wise. A Suez canal portage type of deal would be amazing, but I don't know how realistic that is for the CK2 timeframe. I imagine not very.

This is my first time playing as a horde so I'm learning a lot, like that I can't grant counties to non-nomadic vassals which means I can't create new Merchant Republics. I don't care about the money. I'm building Great Works in all of the counties around my capital as well as all of the Tengri Holy Sites just to have something to spend money on. What I need is ships.
Ship! A ship! My Khaganate for a ship!

Luckily a dude on reddit pointed me to the Pillage All Holdings mod so I don't get carpal tunnel so I've got that going for me which is nice ;)
I also haven't come across any bugs in this playthrough so far, though the game sometimes gets VERY frame-y on the Great Works screen for whatever reason.


Oh also, maybe a suggestion if this isn't already a thing if its at all possible. It isn't relevant in my playthrough yet, but the decision to become Genghis Khan is only available for rulers of Mongol culture if I am correct. I've looked everywhere and Mongol culture has completely died out in this game. This means its impossible for me to claim the Title of Genghis Khan, which (if I am not mistaken) in turn means Temujin is going to spawn in the middle of my uncontested territory with enormous doomstacks "intent on uniting the people of the steps" which is BULL S**T because I've clearly already done that.

Again, not relevant to me yet because of the year, but it would be nice in my fairly unique circumstance to somehow be able to claim the moniker of Genghis Khan for myself without Mongol culture or otherwise prevent him from spawning when his stated reason for spawning in-game is irrelevant.

EDIT: I just got Iceland and the Faroe Islands from a great holy war against Norway, so that's part of the island problem dealt with
 
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This is my first time playing as a horde so I'm learning a lot, like that I can't grant counties to non-nomadic vassals which means I can't create new Merchant Republics. I don't care about the money. I'm building Great Works in all of the counties around my capital as well as all of the Tengri Holy Sites just to have something to spend money on. What I need is ships.

If you can, give your merchant republics all the cities on the wrong ocean (so give Amalfi cities in provinces on the indian ocean, give Funie cities on the atlantic). It will both give them more ships and will allow you to call up both MRs worth of ships in either ocean (by the magic of "raise county levies"). That should help a little. Also, it will generally increase the number of ships they give you since they will like you more.
 

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Hi all. I've been playing the mod for a bit and there is a question I want to ask: how does the council appointment works for chinese taoist confucian bureaucratic vassal of the chinese empire exactly? Basically I can appoint to the council almost only characters with the learning education trait, but sometimes let's me appoint characters with other education traits. So how does it works? This is important to me not only because I want a good council, but particularly because I want to get into the imperial council (possibly not as a court eunuch) and rigth now I can't understand how to manage that. This is very important because if I can manage to get into the imperial council then I can gain some leverage in the empire and eventually some day maybe I can hope to become emperor.
 

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Hi all. I've been playing the mod for a bit and there is a question I want to ask: how does the council appointment works for chinese taoist confucian bureaucratic vassal of the chinese empire exactly? Basically I can appoint to the council almost only characters with the learning education trait, but sometimes let's me appoint characters with other education traits. So how does it works? This is important to me not only because I want a good council, but particularly because I want to get into the imperial council (possibly not as a court eunuch) and rigth now I can't understand how to manage that. This is very important because if I can manage to get into the imperial council then I can gain some leverage in the empire and eventually some day maybe I can hope to become emperor.

Confucian Bureaucracy and Chinese Imperial currently (6.0.0) require all council members (and the Designated Regent) to have 10 Learning, regardless of the position they hold, to simulate the appointees passing some form of examination. The Learning requirement will be changed to 12/10/8/6 for emperor/king/duke/count rulers in 6.0.1, as the current value is a bit too restrictive for lower title rulers.
 

Censor96x

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Confucian Bureaucracy and Chinese Imperial currently (6.0.0) require all council members (and the Designated Regent) to have 10 Learning, regardless of the position they hold, to simulate the appointees passing some form of examination. The Learning requirement will be changed to 12/10/8/6 for emperor/king/duke/count rulers in 6.0.1, as the current value is a bit too restrictive for lower title rulers.
Oh ok, thanks for the answer, going to invest more into that learning skill then
 

Silversweeeper

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Wait, so it went from three kingdoms, to needing three empires? Well...I'M BOOTING UP CK2 WITH THIS ALPHA
(no idea if Russia is formable in this but let's find out)

I don't believe we've changed anything about it in 6.0.0.

The next patch will restrict it slightly -- Chinese Imperial realms (China and pretenders), Japanese Imperial realms (the Tenno), and lieges of Japanese Imperial vassals (which only should happen if you've become the Shogun and have the Tenno as a vassal, since the Tenno is the only Japanese Imperial ruler in the world) will be barred from taking the decision and the decision to form certain other empires (e.g. the Slavic Union and the Bulgarian Empire) -- due to some issues that could arise if we didn't restrict it (e.g. if a Chinese Imperial empire creates the Russian Empire, the Russian Empire will instantly be destroyed because Chinese Imperial realms are only permitted to hold one empire (because they can easily lose their government type otherwise) and the old title would always be the one kept) that we'd rather resolve in the current fashion (China remains China, pretenders aim to remain pretenders and are focused on becoming China, Japan remains Japan) than some other, messier fashion.
 

Keizer Harm

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we'd rather resolve in the current fashion (China remains China, pretenders aim to remain pretenders and are focused on becoming China, Japan remains Japan) than some other, messier fashion.
Forming such an empire could become one of the ways to get out of the Chinese/Japanese Imperial government type, and essentially become a feudal realm that happens to hold Chinese/Japanese territory. I know, low prio, but something to consider :)
 

Silversweeeper

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Forming such an empire could become one of the ways to get out of the Chinese/Japanese Imperial government type, and essentially become a feudal realm that happens to hold Chinese/Japanese territory. I know, low prio, but something to consider :)

It wouldn't in any way affect eligibility for Japanese Imperial, as that's tied to holding k_chrysanthemum_throne, but it would risk messing up what happens on a succession or claimant/takeover faction victory, so changing it for Japanese Imperial rulers is not worthwhile, and it is also more consistent this way as you're not permitted to create empires when Japanese Imperial. Maybe changing how it works for their lieges is going to be an option (though their government type isn't affected at present), but since we've not implemented Shogunate mechanics it is uncertain, and it is safer to leave it disabled for now.

As for how it would work with Chinese Imperial, Chinese Imperial realms aren't permitted to create empires normally (and there are only two exceptions using decisions: creating China if it isn't created (because it is sensible to do that if you claim to be the emperor of China), which immediately forfeits your existing pretender empire, and proclaiming yourself the Samrat Chakravartin if a Buddhist pretender (and I'd rather remove that (again; it is disabled in 6.0.0) than open up all possible empire creation events related to completely different areas of the map), which also forfeits your existing empire), so this is more consistent, and due to the risk of people inadvertently losing Chinese Imperial it is far safer to treat all instances of getting a new empire when Chinese Imperial in the same way unless we have a very good reason to permit an exception (and we can't reasonably know if you want to lose Chinese Imperial or not, so "I could use this to get out of Chinese Imperial" isn't something we can add an exception for).
 
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Keizer Harm

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and we can't reasonably know if you want to lose Chinese Imperial or not, so "I could use this to get out of Chinese Imperial" isn't something we can add an exception for
I probably wasn't very clear: I by no means meant to insinuate anything being wrong with the mentioned government types (I haven't actually played as either yet); just that one could see losing said types as a natural consequence of declaring oneself something specifically un-Chinese/Japanese, e.g. Samrat Chakravartin. It would give a sense of your (by this point continent-spanning) empire evolving into something different.

Of course, if it's too difficult/low-prio to implement then that's that. I just thought I'd mention the alternative solution to your stated problem.
 

Silversweeeper

Ichi no Hito
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Aug 24, 2012
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I probably wasn't very clear: I by no means meant to insinuate anything being wrong with the mentioned government types (I haven't actually played as either yet); just that one could see losing said types as a natural consequence of declaring oneself something specifically un-Chinese/Japanese, e.g. Samrat Chakravartin. It would give a sense of your (by this point continent-spanning) empire evolving into something different.

Of course, if it's too difficult/low-prio to implement then that's that. I just thought I'd mention the alternative solution to your stated problem.

Adding a general "Stop being Chinese Imperial" decision for everyone but China (as China should be Chinese Imperial unless it isn't a valid government type) might be possible, but for some rulers it would result in Confucian Bureaucracy (which is essentially the same; you trade having 1000 concubines and being able to grant kingdoms and empires to other government groups for being able to create/usurp empires) and an inability to change from that (unless you're eligible for the special Japanese government types or Roman Imperial or you change your culture/religion to something that doesn't get Confucian Bureaucracy (and thus invalidate Chinese Imperial that way)) -- which probably isn't an improvement -- and nearly everyone else would only be Chinese Imperial in the first place because the game rule for Chinese Imperial culture is set to let everyone keep it (in which case you've opted in to being stuck with it). Besides, there are already ways to get out of it (e.g. converting religion to something that's not "Chinese enough" (and possibly converting back; unless you hold China itself that should (as of the next patch; the flag isn't cleared properly in 6.0.0) result in no longer being Chinese Imperial)).

As for Japanese Imperial, the intention is for the Tenno to keep his special government type no matter what. You can always grant k_chrysanthemum_throne to someone else (assuming you've got another kingdom or an empire) and then grant them independence (and fabricate claims on their provinces), if you really want to escape it.

I can't seem to create merchant republic and hereditary duke vassals as chinese imperial. Is this intentional?

We've not modded basic title grants since they're hardcoded, so hereditary dukes should be creatable unless e.g. Imperial Administration renders it impossible to create them, in which case we can't fix it since any changes to the script there would affect e.g. the ERE. I'd suggest you verify whether creating hereditary dukes works for the ERE in vanilla and that you make a vanilla bug report if it doesn't work, since the wiki doesn't mention anything about it being impossible.

New Merchant Republics might not work as a side-effect of Confucian Bureaucracy being able to hold cities, as feudal_governments is checked first and the new ruler isn't a patrician when it is checked (and the game doesn't make them a patrician after that check, because it sees no reason to do it due to another government being valid). It is outright impossible to make it work as in vanilla without creating bigger problems, and while a player-only workaround might be possible there are some potentially undesirable side-effects from it that makes it hard to say if it is something we'll consider or not.