RedBaronFlyer

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You make a lot of good points. It's the most logical step to lock it to Taoist right now for the reasons you said, I didn't realize how much the reformation system could screw with the Empire of China government, and it's interactions.

When I mentioned Shennism I was thinking of it like the old way in which you clicked reform and your religion was pretty much identical to how it was before except you don't get spammed with missionaries anymore and you can convert provinces. I haven't had much time to mess with the HF reformation system, so I hadn't thought about the possibility of someone making a warlike, dogmatic, monogamous religion out of the eastern pagan religions. The only way to make that sort of system work would be to have a bunch of versions of the Chinese imperial government but with different restrictions, which would be a nightmare to keep in check.

Regarding the Nestorians, I could be wrong, but when I played in the 769 start date, there were Nestorian provinces in Shandong and Hebei. (general area, don't remember the actual province names, I'm using this for reference. http://www.sacu.org/provmap.html) I imagine Nestorianism would probably stay as there for histories sake since you'd need to make a branch of the religion of it to make it remotely viable to play, which would be way out of line with what you guys have stated in the last Q&A post.
 

Silversweeeper

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Regarding the Nestorians, I could be wrong, but when I played in the 769 start date, there were Nestorian provinces in Shandong and Hebei. (general area, don't remember the actual province names, I'm using this for reference. http://www.sacu.org/provmap.html) I imagine Nestorianism would probably stay as there for histories sake since you'd need to make a branch of the religion of it to make it remotely viable to play, which would be way out of line with what you guys have stated in the last Q&A post.

The general area you mentioned does indeed match where I thought we had some Nestorian provinces, and unless we discover that there shouldn't be Nestorian provinces there I expect us to keep those we have (or, rather, that we'll make the new provinces in the area Nestorian as well), but, yeah, a new Nestorian "heresy" is unlikely to be added (especially since it is a mess to try to keep a religion locked to a certain area) andn overhaul of the Nestorian religion is pretty much guaranteed to not happen since it isn't a religion that's eastern enough that it might be considered to be something we should be messing with.
 
Development Diary 16: Beautifying Borneo and Polishing the Philippines

Silversweeeper

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Dev Diary 16 - Beautifying Borneo and Polishing the Philippines (+ small tweaks to Sulawesi)

This will again be short-ish, since it's just map stuff. Again, things are WIP, and feedback is welcome.

Borneo and Sulawesi:
Sulawesi has been expanded from 9 provinces to 12, and one new duchy has been added.

Borneo has been increased from 10 provinces to 28, and the duchy count has gone from 3 to 8. The island has also been split between two kingdoms; Kalimantan and Sarawak.

Provinces:
ck2_36.png


De jure duchies:
ck2_39.png


De jure kingdoms:
ck2_40.png


All of these kingdoms are in e_nusantara, so I'll not bother with an empire de jure map.

Culture:
ck2_38.png


Religion:
ck2_37.png

The Philippines:
The Philippines have gotten a few more provinces; the total is 44, rather than 38. The duchy count has also been increased, from 8 to 12. There's also two kingdoms in the area now, as opposed to just one. Finally, these two kingdoms have been moved into a new empire (the Empire of the Pacific Rim; the name isn't final) since e_nusantara already has over 100 provinces (and Malacca is to be added there in the future) and the relevant realms didn't really hold sway up towards the Philippines.

Provinces:
ck2_46.png


De jure duchies:
ck2_43.png


De jure kingdoms:
ck2_42.png


As mentioned, these kingdoms are in e_pacific_rim.

Culture:
ck2_44.png


Religion:
ck2_45.png

That is probably everything for this week, but hopefully there will be another couple of dev diaries next week (probably towards the end). You should not expect the pace of two dev diaries per week to be maintained for long, though.

The likely content of the next few dev diaries are Taiwan-Ryukyu-Japan-Ainu, Indichina, China (might be split into several dev diaries), Korea, Mongolia-Manchuria, and finally Siberia, in that order. Taiwan-Ryukyu-Japan-Ainu and Korea are areas I don't really need sources for the province layout for since the planned changes are minor, but the rest are areas where relevant maps would be quite helpful.[/Spoiler][/spoiler]
 
Last edited:

Keizer Harm

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I take it that the pastel colours are temporary?
 

Silversweeeper

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I take it that the pastel colours are temporary?

Hopefully. Proper title colours are rather firmly on the not my table at the moment, since adding provinces/titles is a significant task by itself.
 

LumberKing

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Is this currently playable and or Working?

Sorry for the Idiocy that is this Comment.

For the public and the testers, neither. It is being made compatible to sort out issues brought by the new update. As noted by the dev diaries, progress is being made in this regard and once it is done, testers will continue receiving updates. Once certain goals are met, the mod will be in the Closed Beta phase where hopefully not long after that, Open Beta phase where the mod will once again be open to the public.
 

sagimine1

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Dev Diary 16 - Beautifying Borneo and Polishing the Philippines (+ small tweaks to Sulawesi)

This will again be short-ish, since it's just map stuff. Again, things are WIP, and feedback is welcome.

Borneo and Sulawesi:

Sulawesi has been expanded from 9 provinces to 12, and one new duchy has been added.

Borneo has been increased from 10 provinces to 28, and the duchy count has gone from 3 to 8. The island has also been split between two kingdoms; Kalimantan and Sarawak.

Provinces:
View attachment 433837

De jure duchies:
View attachment 433840

De jure kingdoms:
View attachment 433841

All of these kingdoms are in e_nusantara, so I'll not bother with an empire de jure map.

Culture:
View attachment 433839

Religion:
View attachment 433838

The Philippines:

The Philippines have gotten a few more provinces; the total is 44, rather than 38. The duchy count has also been increased, from 8 to 12. There's also two kingdoms in the area now, as opposed to just one. Finally, these two kingdoms have been moved into a new empire (the Empire of the Pacific Rim; the name isn't final) since e_nusantara already has over 100 provinces (and Malacca is to be added there in the future) and the relevant realms didn't really hold sway up towards the Philippines.

Provinces:
View attachment 433848

De jure duchies:
View attachment 433845

De jure kingdoms:
View attachment 433843

As mentioned, these kingdoms are in e_pacific_rim.

Culture:
View attachment 433846

Religion:
View attachment 433847


That is probably everything for this week, but hopefully there will be another couple of dev diaries next week (probably towards the end). You should not expect the pace of two dev diaries per week to be maintained for long, though.

The likely content of the next few dev diaries are Taiwan-Ryukyu-Japan-Ainu, Indichina, China (might be split into several dev diaries), Korea, Mongolia-Manchuria, and finally Siberia, in that order. Taiwan-Ryukyu-Japan-Ainu and Korea are areas I don't really need sources for the province layout for since the planned changes are minor, but the rest are areas where relevant maps would be quite helpful.


Amazing progress, keep up the good work!
 

Silversweeeper

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There will only be one dev diary this week (which hopefully should come tomorrow; I've got a bunch of province history files and de jures to add, so there's a chance that it will be delayed until Sunday), but it should cover everything that was going to be part of the two dev diaries I previously expected.
 
Development Diary 17: Improving Indochina

Silversweeeper

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Dev Diary 17 - Improving Indochina (+ smaller changes to Taiwan, Ryukyu, Japan, and Ainu)

This will be rather long, even if it is just map stuff. There will be some missing localization here and there, as I didn't have time to go through that and figured that you'd rather have a dev diary today than have it delayed due to localization issues. Also, ignore the blank province in Annam; that got fixed after I took the screenshots, and I didn't feel like redoing them.

ck2_1.png


The map rework has gotten decently far along, all told. There's still several hundred provinces to be added, but the Far East is starting to look as something other than just wasteland.

ck2_2.png


The de jure empire map mode. Everything that has been added north of the area shown is in e_japan, and everything to the south is in e_nusantara.

Taiwan and Ryukyu:
These areas have lost a few provinces since we had been rather generous and there were areas where we wanted to be able to add more. Taiwan is down to seven provinces (was nine), and Ryukyu now has six provinces (down from eight).

De jure duchies:
ck2_3.png


You can presumably guess what is in which kingdom.

Religion:
ck2_4.png


Culture:
ck2_5.png

Japan and Ainu:
Japan proper has gained ten provinces, bringing it up to 85 provinces. Yes, that's an insanely big kingdom at the moment; we've been discussing that matter internally a bit, but we've not yet arrived at a point where we've decided how we should model the historical situation, which could affect how/if the kingdom is split.

The areas of k_ainu that currently have been added have gotten one extra province.

De jure duchies:
ck2_6.png


Everything execpt the small bit of Hokkaido (k_ainu) that you can see is in k_japan. Aside from Tsushima, everything is possible to reach without boats; I can also inform you that you can reach all parts of the Philippines except Sulu and Palawan from other parts of the Philippines without boats, which should help the AI a lot in that region.

ck2_9.png

The Kurils + Kamchatka should be another duchy, but that is currently being... uncooperative... and I've postponed fixing that due to having other things planned. Sakhalin may or may not end up in k_ainu down the line, and will presumably be at leas the three provinces it was in 2.8.


Religion:
ck2_8.png

The orange provinces are Buddhist.


Culture:
ck2_7.png

Malaya:
Malaya has grown from nine provinces to twelve provinces.

De jure duchies:
ck2_10.png


Kelantan, Langkasuka, Kuantan, and Melaka are part of Malaya. The rest are part of other kingdoms.

Everything inside the kingdom's borders is currently Hindu and Malay, so I'll not post screenshots of that.


De jure kingdom, culture, and religion maps for Indochina:

ck2_13.png

The main difference from 2.8 is that the Kingdom of Burma has been split into Ava and Pegu for now (since it was getting rather large after more provinces were added). More details below.

ck2_12.png


ck2_11.png


The pale blue is Shenist (Chinese Folk Paganism).

Culture and religion will probably be tweaked a bit down the line.

Lavo and Pegu:

Lavo had some very larger provinces before, and it has therefore grown from seven provinces to fourteen.

The area covered by the Kingdom of Pegu used to have four provinces, and now has eight.

ck2_15.png

c_myeik is part of d_myeik; the screenshot was taken before that was properly fixed.


Haripunjaya, Cambodia, Lan Xang, Champa, and Annam:

Haripujaya still has eight provinces, as before, but they've been slightly redrawn and renamed due to the rest of the region being restructured a bit and some provinces not being located where they should have been located.

Cambodia has grown to 26 provinces, from 14, since a lot of the provinces in the area were very large.

Lan Xang has grown from nine provinces to sixteen, again due to the provinces previously being rather too large.

Champa has grown from six provinces to eight, since the area already was relatively generous with provinces.

Annam has grown from fourteen to seventeen provinces. Again, the area was fairly generous with provinces.


ck2_16.png


Ava, Shan, and Dali:

The area that now is part of Ava has grown from nine/ten (depending on how you count) provinces to twenty provinces since they were quite large.

Shan has grown from six/seven (depending on how you count) provinces to nine.

Dali has grown from eleven provinces to fifteen, if you count Gyaltang for both versions (which may or may not end up as part of Kham down the line, as it was in 2.8).

Also, the province of Batang is once more added as part of d_sutiya, since that's the best way to add that.

ck2_18.png

This will be the last dev diary for this year, and you shouldn't expect a dev diary next week. China is next, and China is going to be quite a bit larger than it was in the 2.8 version, so it isn't going to allow for as much copy-paste work as some things that have been added in the past.
 

Silversweeeper

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Don't the provinces look a bit too square and unnatural?

There will probably be some polishing to fix that down the line (and to fix too rounded provinces too), but right now getting the provinces on the map is the priority since not having provinces (and the associated titles) on the map is something of a bottleneck, both when it comes to the work that can be done and when it comes to what we can test.
 
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sagimine1

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When can we test this mod with Holy Fury expansion? I am loving what I am seeing so far and can wait to try the new mechanic as well with this mod!
 

Silversweeeper

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When can we test this mod with Holy Fury expansion? I am loving what I am seeing so far and can wait to try the new mechanic as well with this mod!

Not terribly soon, I'm afraid, since there's not a lot of work being done on the mod (due to the vast majority of the Tianxia devs not being active at all) and there's a lot of work that needs to be done.


The best-case scenario for the map rework is that all provinces are on the map (in a non-polished form) about a month from now (the actual working time is significantly less than a month, but I don't have all the time in the world to spend working on Tianxia and don't have the energy to spend all of my free time working on Tianxia). At that point, many/all (depending on what's getting done while I'm adding provinces; I'm focusing on that and have told people to work on the rest in the meantime) of the provinces will not have proper positions for graphical stuff (meaning units, councillors, etc. won't show up properly), will not have the proper amount of baronies (seven per province, due to Prosperity requiring that), will be missing proper CoAs (everything currently uses a placeholder CoA since it would take me longer to check every CoA than to copy and rename the placeholder for each title, and we had some placeholders even before the work on HF began), will be missing a proper (and ideally complete, at least as far as the top liege goes) title history (which depends on the character history) file (meaning you can't start as someone holding the province and that the province will be fully independent when the game starts), might have a bad province history file (the culture/religion/starting holdings might be weird), or might have other issues (e.g. missing/bad localization, a weird shape, a lack of adjacencies (strait/major river crossings), no starting tech values, not being in all relevant geographical regions, not having proper Black Death patterns, and/or not being a Silk Road (and Silk Road trading post, where relevant) province), some of which must be fixed before we even are prepared to share the mod with the Closed Alpha testers.

Beyond the above (a bunch of which isn't stuff that's possible to just port from the 2.8 version), there's a bunch of things that must completed/added before the mod works with HF (e.g. rel head titles and localization for our new Doctrines), a bunch of things that should be added (as part of HF compatibility/earlier compatibility) that doesn't prevent the mod from being playable but that is noticeable in its absence (Warrior Lodges for all of our pagans, holy orders for various religions, unique retinues/cultural buildings for everyone, more artefacts for everyone (especially basic smith-crafted ones), and basic flavour (e.g. a feast-like decision/event chain for all religions)), a bunch of things that should be added that's new content (which I'm not going to discuss here), some old stuff (that's currently commented out internally due to varying issues) that should be either fixed or fully removed (and other stuff that might need to be tweaked due to e.g. assuming that the recipient (and possibly the sender) automatically is an adult male character in whatever part of the world a culture/religion historically would be present it), a bunch of localization that should be checked (for grammar/spelling mistakes, proper pronouns (since some of it likely predates the SoW laws and thus assumes that various rulers are male), and just plain bad writing), and various other things that we might want to add that may or may not be worth delaying a release (public or Closed Alpha only) for and that may or may not be easy to add (and sometimes we have a lot of individually easy things to add that makes it a fairly big undertaking to add it all).

All of the above might not need to be done for the mod to be as playable as the internal 2.8 version (which only the Closed Alpha testers got to see, since a decision was made to not update the public version) is/was (though some bits, such as the map, are strictly necessary to get done before we're at that point) and to have basic HF compatibility, but even when the mod gets to that point it might not immediately be shared in a public fashion (since a decision was made to not do so in the past). We've got a list of goals (that might grow or shrink, and that I'm not going to share here) that we want to complete before we move on to the (Closed) Beta, and some of those goals are rather big, so there might be further delays due to that (and possibly also due to further DLCs/vanilla patches forcing us to do more compatibility work; even though HF wasn't as related to our stuff as JD, it still messed with a bunch of files that we also had tweaked and added some new things we need/needed to add).


Understandably, this isn't want you wanted to hear, and understandably this is rather vague, but there are things that I cannot (or should not) say here, a lot of uncertainties about how quickly things can get done due to not knowing how many devs will be even somewhat active (judging by recent and not-so-recent activity in our internal forum and elsewhere, not many, even if I'm generous with how I define "being active"), not being sure how difficult some things might be to do (some things are simple on paper, but turn out to be rather more difficult to actually do), and not being fully certain if our goals will change, and a number of things that I've got no control over (for example, I don't get to decide when we release something). I'll just say that I'm doing all the work I reasonably can do to ensure that a new version can be released as quickly as possible, but that releasing something quickly might not be possible.
 
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Caspian Mortis

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I suggest that the name 'Khmer Empire' be changed to 'Kambujadesa', the ancient name for the empire.

This avoids the weird 'Emperor of Khmer Empire' and instead displays it more logically as 'Emperor of Kambujadesa'.

I also suggest that the title for Khmer emperors be changed to Devaraja/Devarani, the title for the god-kings of the Khmer Empire, if this isn't already so.
 

Keizer Harm

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I'm +1 on localised titles* but -1 on renaming Khmer to something else. It's a bit like e_tibet, which was named Bodchen Po in an older vanilla build but changed back to Tibet after complaints.

*: Council titles are an exception, since e.g. for Aztecs it can be confusing when your Hzcyttxtxcztl is sending you a message and you don't have a clue who that is - but for ranks, like emperor, king, duke etc., I'm all about it, because it provides flavour while you can always easily look at the frame around the portrait and see what the phoque kind of fellow it is about.
 

Caspian Mortis

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I understand your reasoning, but it's annoying to see 'Emperor of Khmer Empire' (which isn't even grammatically correct, as there a 'the' missing) instead of a short name, that is a single word. It's the same with 'Basileus of Byzantine Empire' and the abomination 'Tsar of Slavic Union', along with several others.

Alternatively if you are opposed to using Kambujadesa, it would even be preferable to use something like 'Empire of Angkor' or even 'Empire of Cambodia' (even though Kampuchea was used instead of Cambodia); but Empire of Kambujadesa would still be the most preferable, while also being historically accurate.
 
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Keizer Harm

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Well, I think that Emperor of <land> Empire is a bit of a department of redundancy department, but not necessarily the worst sin. I just kinda prefer Khmer Empire because the best Kambujadesa seems to have over it is that it's what the natives called it, like Bodchen Po. Might as well rename the Aztec Empire to Ēxcān Tlahtōlōyān then. I honestly would not mind a map that's wholly endonymic (also Magyarország for Hungary, Basileia Rhōmaiōn for Byzantium, and so on), but it'd need to be applied everywhere to be consistent.

The others are well, less recogniseable alternatives. I never liked the Slavic Union myself, so feel my compassion on that, but I was never really opposed to Basileus of Byzantine Empire, because Basileus =/= Emperor.

So Devaraja of Khmer Empire works for me. It would even remove all confusion about what rank a Devaraja is.

Alternatively... how does Devaraja of Khmer sound? I think that in an older version of this mod (or possibly it was Umbra Spherae, not sure), the Chinese realms were named Tang, Wu, etc., rather than Tang Empire and Wu Kingdom. If Tianxia goes that route, changing Khmer Empire to just Khmer would look okay on the map (everyone knows what they're talking about) and alleviate your redundancy qualm.
 

Caspian Mortis

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Please don't use Khmer as the empire name, as it is an adjective not a noun, it would akin to having 'Emperor of French', 'Emperor of Slavic' or 'Emperor of Chinese'. 'Emperor of Khmer' would be worse than 'Emperor of Khmer Empire'. If you want a single word, but refuse to use endonyms, Angkor would be my second choice, and then Cambodia.

Also, Nusantara, like Kambujadesa is quite an obscure word, an endonym, and also historically accurate. Yet you use it as the name for the empire covering the Malay archipelago. The more 'obvious' would be to use 'Indonesia' but this would be horribly anachronistic.
 

Keizer Harm

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Keep in mind, I'm not a dev - just sharing my two cents :)

But eh, the summary of my opinion is that it is preferable to use the name that is:
  • the most recognisable
  • not historically inaccurate
Khmer Empire checks those boxes, whereas Nusantara is a fantasy empire so different rules apply. The qualm against it is well, a grammar thing, so I'll leave it to the devs to decide on that.