[MOD] Tianxia: Silk Road Expansion

[Higakoryu]

What real life governments is the Japanese Monastic Feudal government supposed to represent?

 

[Higakoryu]

How can I raise my Mandate?

 

[Silversweeeper]

What real life governments is the Japanese Monastic Feudal government supposed to represent?

The person that initially wanted it to be added hasn't been active for several years, but I believe it was supposed to represent hereditary not-quite-theocratic Shinto shrines back when it was added... and so far I've not really found any places where it makes sense to use it like that. We'll probably not do much with the government, seeing as Japanese Feudal is more widely available, is a more historical endgame for Japan, and is easier to find flavourful stuff for.

How can I raise my Mandate?

I'm reasonably sure I've explained how the Mandate mechanic works in the past, so I suggest you use the search function.

 

[Higakoryu]

On the Japanese Wiki Corpus, I saw names frequently being written as (Clan) no (Name). Is that a valid way to do it?

 

[Silversweeeper]

On the Japanese Wiki Corpus, I saw names frequently being written as (Clan) no (Name). Is that a valid way to do it?

For some clans (e.g. Fujiwara, Minamoto, Taira, Tachibana), it's commonly done, while for others (e.g. Ashikaga, Nitta, Tokugawa, Hojo) it's not. Given that we have to pick one and that silliness like "Yorimichi Fujiwara no" (after culture conversion) or "Ashikaga no Shogunate" is unwanted, we have no "no"s anywhere.

 

[Silversweeeper]

There's a possibility that the dev diary about changes to the Grace system will be delayed a bit as some unexpected things have taken time away from that work. However, you'll probably be getting a largely unrelated dev diary pretty soon, so you've got that to look forward to.

 

[shenxy13]

Dev Diary 66: Chinese Mourning & Small Boost for Spiritual HoF Reformation

Hi, I'm shenxy13, the newest developer on the Tianxia team, and I'm here to share a couple of new things that have been added since the last dev diary.

Although China is not the focus of the 14.0.0 patch, some of their flavour from 13.0.0 will still receive a minor overhaul. In today's dev diary, I will be talking about the overhaul made to the mourning event chain (which was previously only accessible to people following Shenism, reformed or not).

So, mourning. Quite a big deal in ancient China. Confucius talks about it in his Analects, emphasising the importance of showing reciprocity towards one's parents for their care during the first three years of life by mourning them for three years. Ever since the Han dynasty established Confucianism as the dominant philosophy behind governing in China, it has been a staple of Chinese life. Even the Mongol Yuan dynasty enforced mourning on its Chinese subjects (although the culturally Mongol emperors of the Yuan did not mourn, and this curious asymmetry will be elaborated on later).

As the first major change from its previous iteration, the chain is now available automatically to all Shenists and Confucians, as well as any ruler in the Chinese culture group, as long as they are either "unlanded and eligible for" or "landed and have" one of the three Chinese government types (Chinese Imperial, Eastern Imperial, Confucian Bureaucracy). The event will trigger 3 days after the death of a parent or paternal grandparent (or maternal grandparent if your mother is from the same dynasty, but that's highly taboo for China and I advise not doing that). Here is a helpful list of some "likely" combinations and whether they get access to mourning.

• Han Shenist Emperor: does mourn.
• Min Buddhist bureaucrat: does mourn.
• Mongol Confucian Emperor: does mourn.
• Bamar Shenist bureaucrat: does mourn.
• Qiang Taoist couriter: does mourn.
• Han Catholic vassal: does NOT mourn.
• Mongol Buddhist bureaucrat: does NOT mourn.
• Han Confucian Khagan: does NOT mourn.
• Han Orthodox courtier: does NOT mourn.

Unfortunately, depicting mourning in the historical manner would be all sorts of terrible for gameplay reasons. Historically, mourning involved resigning one's post in the bureaucracy, returning home and mourning strictly for the full three year duration, before returning to court where you would (theoretically) be given back your old exact post. In fact, it was frequently a way to stall the political careers of subjects, and may have been part of the reason why our old friends the Mongols continued to enforce the tradition on their Chinese subjects while stubbornly not following such rules. And in case you were thinking of not reporting your parent's death, well, that's impeachment and removal for you if the Emperor ever finds out. As you can imagine, practically forcibly unlanding the player character for a three-year duration will not go over well. As such, there are various compromises. Firstly, you will only be placed under a regency. Secondly, your expected period of mourning will depend on your tier:

• You can choose to not mourn at all. This is unlikely to go over well no matter how high up you are...
• Independent rulers and non-viceroy kings get to mourn for only 36 days without consequences. This is based on a historical practice where, because the Emperor was "vital to the functioning of the state", he would substitute months of mourning for days. In actual fact, the Emperor frequently mourned for only 27 days. This option has been made available to more characters so that the EoC is not the only one on the map benefitting from it.
  • They will suffer a "small reputation penalty" for not mourning, and a small bonus for mourning more than 36 days.
• Viceroy kings and non-viceroy dukes get to mourn for one year instead of three. This has less historical backing (minus one instance in the Analects which was criticised by Confucius), but it's here as a slight concession.
  • They will suffer a "small reputation penalty" for mourning for 36 days, and will hand their liege (if their liege has a Chinese government and therefore should care) a revocation reason if they don't mourn at all. They get a small bonus for mourning for the full duration.
• Viceroy dukes and counts should mourn for the full three years, but they get some concessions.
  • They will only suffer a "small reputation penalty" for mourning for a year. Their liege (if relevant) will get a revocation reason for mourning for 36 days, and not mourning at all will give the liege both a revocation AND an imprisonment reason.
• Barons and unlanded courtiers must mourn for the full three years unless they want to see some pretty bad stuff happen. (Not that this matters much to the player, who will be the one doing the bad stuff most of the time.)
  • Mourning for a year gives their liege a revocation reason, and less than that? Imprisonment reason + revocation reason.

As can be seen, this incentivises bureaucrats who aren't that vital to the bureaucracy to mourn properly, while providing outs for slightly more important characters. It also allows for, say, a Mongol Buddhist Chinese Emperor to fully enforce mourning on his subjects and punish them for not mourning properly while not actually having to ever mourn his own father. Of course, the AI has been given some "hints" to not push the buttons too hard, and they probably won't do something to give you a revocation or imprisonment reason unless they are both very irreverent and deeply suicidally stupid (or very confident that they can get away with it).

The Emperor won't mind this, would he?

Oopsies? That's not going to go away is it.

Oh, he does care. Better hope he doesn't act on it!

Of course, there will be events to help pass the time. Unfortunately, what people did in mourning was mostly a whole lot of nothing, so there's a limit to how far we can push the events while still remaining reasonably immersive.

That's quite a decent trade (although, to be fair, this capped scaled cost might be a little more problematic for someone who wasn't making +0.5 a month due to being way over demesne limit).

That's... a little less good.

No, this event is not gated by the supernatural events game rule (then why is there a check for it in the event code?)

All in all, we hope that mourning makes for a balanced experience, providing a small handicap towards characters who would have historically faced it while not making them too unappealing to play. (Remember, your vassals are just as handicapped by mourning as you are, and in fact often times more handicapped, so have fun revoking from those insane bureaucrats!) The next dev diary might talk about a way for vassals of the Emperor of China to get out of having to fulfill their own mourning obligations, which would also contribute to allowing those who want to circumvent the mourning system to do so in a historically plausible way.


Moving on, there has been a small change made to the Spiritual Head of Faith option for pagan reformations. While the goal of providing such a Head of Faith option is to allow "Chinese enough" reformations that have the ancestor veneration mechanic, we hope that it doesn't end up as the only reason players select Spiritual over Autonomous. While Spiritual offers assorted boosts to Moral Authority through having a HoF, MA is inherently not that important to pagan faiths (especially "Chinese enough" faiths), and Autonomous comes with a +2 boost to a stat for ALL members of a faith and a set of branch traits.

To compensate for not having Autonomous branch traits or stat boosts, characters with a Spiritual HoF now have a decision where they can choose to spend 100 piety to get a +1 in a single stat for 10 years. These modifiers do not stack, although a character is allowed to have multiple of them improving different stats at a time (so no +3 to intrigue, but +1 to diplomacy, martial and learning at the same time is certainly doable). Due to this being mainly a mechanical decision, the flavour for it is incredibly basic and generic, and will likely not see much improvement.

Gimme that +1 in stewardship and stop talking about the "lore" and "immersion" of the decision.

I hope the options speak for themselves (yes, the last one is a blatant "next page" button, I did say the lore justification for this is extremely weak).

That's all for this dev diary!

 

[shenxy13]

Just a quick update since we've not got any new features that are in a state where a full dev diary can be written:

I've taken a look at the province culture/religion distribution in China to touch it up a bit for 14.0.0 (character culture/religion, unfortunately, will have to mostly stay as-is because a full review of every character in China is very labour-intensive and 14.0.0 will not be a China-focused update, so it will be saved for a future update). Some of the changes I made (and will be making) are as follows:

• chinese_group now comprises mostly of regional varieties of Chinese culture, with various ethnic minorities shifted to other groups that I felt would suit them better. It has also gained a few new cultures.
  • Qiang, Nakhi and Yi are now in the Tibeto-Burman group (which might be subject to a split of its own down the line, since the group is starting to bloat and the Bamar and some other cultures don't make sense to group with Tibetan for various things such as Monastic Feudal).
  • She is now in a newly added Hmong-Mien group, along with some new cultures (will elaborate further below).
  • Tujia and Bai remain in chinese_group since there's no cultural group to put them in that I would consider more sensible. The same applies to the newly added Tanka culture, which despite historical discrimination by the "proper" Chinese residents of their regions were still considerably Sinicised and speak Chinese languages.
  • Regional varieties of Chinese have been added: Gan, Xiang, Ba-Shu, Hakka and Wu. Combined with Min, Yue and Han, that makes eight different varieties of Chinese culture for more regional diversity in the Chinese parts of e_china.
• Added Hmong-Mien group consisting of Miao/Hmong (new), Yao/Mien (new) and She (moved from chinese_group). Yes, I know the Miao-Yao distinction in modern China doesn't map perfectly to the split between Hmongic and Mienic, and that there are various controversies about each of these names, but we have to choose a name to use in this mod.
  • Note: She corresponds to the Hmongic predecessor to the modern She people in China, which is also suspected to have contributed to a substratum of the Hakka culture.
• Added some new cultures to Tai-Kadai group: Zhuang, Dong/Kam and Li/Hlai.
• Modified some of the cultural distributions on the map
  • The Chinese regional varieties now occupy the parts of the map where they would have historically been found. The southeast of China is no longer a blobby mess of Mostly Accurate Min, Big She, Big Yue and Big Tujia.
  • Ethnic minorities have been placed in areas where they were most likely historically dominant, although if there was a particularly interesting minority somewhere they might be represented on-map even if it was vanishingly unlikely for them to have been the majority religion/culture (see how Bianjing's Kaifeng Jews worked in 13.0.0).
• Modified some of the religious distributions on the map
  • Most of Han Northern China is now Chinese folk religious instead of Taoist, with Taoism becoming more common in the south and among minority groups. Confucianism remains confined to capitals and the rough region of the historical state of Lu, while Buddhism is most dominant in the Yangtze river region.
  • Several major Abrahamic religions (Nestorian/Syriac, Sunni, Shia, Judaism, Catholic) now have something of a presence in China in certain starts.
  • Ethnic minorities, have, in most cases, been assigned a reasonable folk religion instead of all becoming Chinese folk religious.

Note: colours and localisation are WIP and not finalised.

Spoiler: 769

Even after the An Lushan rebellion, Tang China remains a cosmopolitan nation, with thriving cultural and religious minorities. Various foreign religions enjoy a healthy amount of imperial patronage, with Christian and Muslim populations (largely made out of non-Chinese people) and even Manicheans within the empire. This is a beautiful tapestry of tolerance and I'm sure nothing will happen in about 70 years to end it.

Spoiler: 867

The 867 start comes after one of the greatest religious persecutions in China. The Syriac church was on the retreat, and Chinese Manichean communities never recovered. Buddhism, however, was certainly the one to fall the hardest during the Huichang persecution in the 840s. Although the persecution was halted by the next Emperor of China, Buddhist communities across the Empire would go into decline, not fully recovering until the Northern Song dynasty.

Spoiler: 936

The 936 start remains largely the same as the 867 start, although Buddhism recovers slightly in some regions. The Arab Bedouin community in Guangzhou (did you notice them in the previous pictures?) goes extinct in 879 after Huang Chao's rebellion captured the city and killed most of them, and the last remnants of Syriac Christianity in China largely disappear after the fall of Tang cut off imperial patronage of the minority religion. The Min people also begin to colonise Hainan, pushing back the Li/Hlai natives on the island, although the process would not be finished until well into the modern era.

Spoiler: 1066

After the rise of Song, Buddhism largely recovers in China due to the Song dynasty's support of Chan Buddhism. Manichaeism, on the other hand, continues to be suppressed, and a particularly prominent uprising in Northern Song may have been led by a Manichean...

Spoiler: 1337

We end off the showcase with 1337, the last possible start date in vanilla and Tianxia (without further modifications). China at this point is under the Mongol Yuan dynasty, and several things have changed. A Syriac Christian community makes a return in North China due to Mongolian influences, although it now has competition in the form of Catholic Christianity due to missionaries from Europe. The large territorial extent of the Mongolian Empire has also brought both Arabs and Persians to China, most notably Fujian, where Shiites exist peacefully with a prominent Sunni governing family in the region, a setup which I'm sure will never lead to a bloody rebellion. In terms of culture, there are also a few changes, most notably the emergence of Hakka ("guest families") from Chinese people fleeing war in the north, as well as the extinction of Ba-Shu culture after the devastation of Sichuan during the Mongol invasions of China.

If you have any pre-Sinicisation namelists for any of the added minorities and would like to contribute them to the mod, please do post them (preferably with citation). Unfortunately, I have not been able to find reliable sources for most of them (other than the Chinese regional variants, Miao, Yao and Yi), so it is likely that if no better sources are found quite a number of them will get duplicated namelists from a sensible nearby Chinese culture to reflect how they adopted Chinese names and surnames post-Sinicisation, despite it not necessarily being period-appropriate for some of them.

It has not been decided whether these new cultures (and their corresponding new folk religions) will get access to any of Tianxia's special governments (most relevantly Chinese Imperial, Eastern Imperial and Confucian Bureaucracy), and I will not be able to comment on it until a decision is reached internally.

 

[Silversweeeper]

Dev diary 67 - Grace system changes

This will be a rather long one. Some missing/weird localization will be in the screenshots below, and some things mentioned here are still a bit WIP; I don't expect major changes to functionality at this point.


As you most likely know, Tianxia already makes use of the Grace system from Jade Dragon, with a few changes. When 14.0.0 releases, the changes will be quite more extensive. Let's start with some general changes:

- First of all, vassals and below of China will now be able to use many of the previously existing Tributes and Boons. This means that vassals now have more of an incentive to not e.g. get caught murdering relatives of the EoC as the Grace penalty matters, and it also means that becoming a subject of China doesn't mean you can't spend your Grace any longer, to name some obvious benefits. Additionally, characters sent by vassals and below of China are not disinherited (except for eunuchs, as that's inherent in the Eunuch trait) or forced to get a divorce/set aside concubines, so while there are some risks to losing control of them sending a very skilled heir to serve as a commander of physician isn't necessarily a terrible idea.

- Secondly, the Grace system has been a bit restricted when it comes to other realms. A loophole allowing tributaries of other Chinese Imperial lieges to interact with the Grace system has been closed, for one thing. For another, only independent rulers, king-tier vassals, permanent regents, Grand Chancellors, and powerful vassals of independent rulers can now make use of the system; after all, if you're some lesser subject of a barbarian realm, you'd be lucky to even get an audience with the most junior of junior court officials (and it also helps keep spam down a bit, gives you an incentive to grow in power, and helps a bit with performance).

- Thirdly, the EoC cannot accept any Tributes or grant about any Boons if inaccessible or incapable, and rulers that are inaccessible, imprisoned, or under a regent (permanent or otherwise) cannot use the system. This should make things more sensible.

- Fourthly, the game rule to disable the Grace system has been removed, as has the ability to disable specific Tributes/Boons (declining is still possible, but not always advisable). The system is meant to be used, and is now more tied to assorted other things (e.g. the Mandate of Heaven mechanic).

- Fifthly, the Chinese interest groups might now mess with some things. Most notably, a powerful Grand Chancellor will get to tell the EoC whether to accept/refuse something (in exchange for prestige), forcing the EoC to pay prestige if he goes against the GC's will and (if the GC is fully empowered) getting a discontent council if he goes against the GC and also being perceived as a tyrant.

- Sixthly, the EoC's Mandate rating now affects the Grace gained for different Tributes (lower Mandate = higher gain), and the EoC's Mandate rating now impacts the AI's willingness to use the system in more ways (higher Mandate = the AI is more likely to humour China's pretensions).

- Seventhly, characters sent to China will no longer accept court invites, and the EoC will reward the full amount of Grace even if he re-gifts someone (or something).

- Eighthly, in addition to only a tenth of a character's Grace being inherited if it's negative (already in the game), only a fifth of a character's Grace will be inherited if it's positive, which means that anyone with a dangerous amount of Grace perhaps can have an "accident" (and also means that if you want powerful Boons you have to commit to it). However, pretender emperors now pass on all negative Grace, instead of only ten percent.

- Ninthly, anyone following the Aztec or Yupaychaspa religions (reformed or unreformed), that is an Aztec culture emperor of the Aztec Empire, that is a Quechua culture emperor of the Inca Empire, or that is a vassal or below of any of such liege is unable to use the Grace system, to avoid certain silliness.

- Finally, various bits of AI logic, various Grace costs/gains, and assorted other things have been overhauled, and the AI has also been switched to check things on some on_action (mostly an offset on_five_year_pulse) rather than using decisions as that saves on performance.


Now, on to Tributes and Boons, both old and new:

- The Send Gift Tribute now costs one year of scaled wealth OR 500 gold (whichever is higher). However, for each Eunuch or Courtier law not in the EoC's favour some of that money vanishes into thin air -- both to prevent "Murder the recipient to get the money" ploys and to symbolize less important people getting a cut -- and some will be given to a Council Eunuch and/or an important courtier (e.g. one of the EoC's consorts).

- Religion heads and appropriate lieges of the Tenno and the Ryukyuan knockoff can no longer offer to become a tributary voluntarily. The Tribute is largely unchanged otherwise, and obviously does not work for subjects of China.

- It is no longer possible to offer a member of the Imperial Family or the family of the Ryukyuan knockoff as an eunuch if you should care. The EoC's dynasty members are likewise not possible to send. "Loyal servant" eunuchs gifted by the eunuch merchant can be sent (and remain loyal servants of the sender...), as can your unlanded prisoners, and the bar has been considerably lowered on suitability (though the Grace gain for a bad eunuch is pretty bad). Finally, China will not re-gift eunuchs to subjects.

- It is no longer possible to offer a member of the Imperial Family or the family of the Ryukyuan knockoff as a concubine if you should care. The EoC's siblings, ancestors, and descendants are likewise off the table. Attractive women and non-Homosexual Master Seductresses can be sent even if they are not related to anyone of note. You may now send your own lovers, but they're fairly likely to break up with you. Characters that care about keeping things in the family will now consider this when offering concubines, at least in AI hands.

- It is now possible to send event-spawned female commanders to China, as well as anyone with a Martial education (as opposed to always requiring 12+ Martial). The decision is otherwise largely unchanged.

- Foreigners can no longer send physicians if they've got a disease in their realm, and subjects of China need a disease-free demesne. China would likely suspect foul play otherwise.

- Relief Expeditions have been removed, as they worked rather weirdly in various ways.

- Anyone that should care about the Imperial Regalia of Japan should now avoid offering it to the EoC. The EoC will also be willing to accept ingredients if he's someone that could make use of them (i.e. a fellow Hermetic), though will probably not give you a lot for them. Additionally, anyone with a claim on e_china will not be able to send the Heirloom Seal of the Realm to China, for reasons that should be obvious.

- Vassals and below of China may now offer to hand over a non-de jure (because the AI otherwise would hand it right back...) county to the EoC in exchange for Grace. Perhaps a good way to get rid of counties claimed by rivals if vassal warfare is on the table...

- Independent rulers may now renounce ALL (non-de jure non-religious) claims on any titles held by the EoC or his vassals, and subjects of the EoC may renounce ALL (non-de jure) claims on titles personally held by the EoC.

- It is now possible to offer to renounce a Favor held on the EoC in exchange for Grace. The AI always accepts (and an AI GC always recommends accepting), as Grace generally is less dangerous than Favors.

- If Reaper's Due is active, vassals and below of China with at least one county with positive Prosperity can offer to transfer one level of Prosperity from a random (preferably non-capital) province to another province (preferring the EoC's capital, the EoC's demesne, and finally other realm lords' provinces).

- Characters in the same society as the EoC can now offer to transfer some society currency in exchange for Grace. Should this society be a secret society the GC does not get to make a recommendation unless he also is part of the same secret society.

- Vassals and below of China can now offer to use their own influence (read: Prestige) to boost the EoC's Mandate rating as a new Tribute. This costs the greater of 1000 prestige or one year of prestige income.

- Religion heads and any liege of the Tenno or the Ryukyuan knockoff that should care can no longer ask to increase their tributary tier. China can of course "suggest" it, but these rulers will always choose war if pressed.

- Independent rulers can now offer a Border Adjustment in China's favour in exchange for a ten year truce. Religion heads and any liege of the Tenno or the Ryukyuan knockoff that should care are unable to do this, and the AI will not offer up de jure territory even if it's Chinese land.

- A new Boon to Request a Truce has been added, available if being attacked by China. Invalidates the relevant war and applies a ten year bidirectional truce. Useful if China is unwilling to grant a Peace Deal or you could not afford one in time.

- Chinese Peace Deals are now a bit more expensive. Tributaries of China cannot ask for Peace Deals any longer (they can still get them from Imperial Marriages), as they're obviously in no danger of being attacked by China (unless they get uppity when China graciously offers them a higher tributary tier). The duration of a peace deal (from this Boon or from an Imperial Marriage) has also been lowered to 25 years (was 50).

- The Request Trade Contract Boon has been removed, as it worked rather weirdly in various ways.

- Vassals and below of China can now request a Favor from the EoC as a Boon. They can also request that the EoC forgets all about them owing a Favor.

- Feudal (is_feudal = yes) vassals and below of China can now use a new Boon to request a county for themselves or a friend/lover/relative (with some limitations), assuming there's an eligible county. Unless vassals are too empowered, the EoC might take a county from a vassal or below that can spare one instead, but he will be expected to give them something in exchange (money, Grace, or a Favor) to not be perceived as a tyrant by the person whose county was taken. You cannot be told you've got to give yourself a county, but the EoC can potentially tell you that if you think your idiot nephew deserves a county you should give him one of yours, and if that happens (it's not overly likely if there are other candidates that aren't from the EoC's dynasty and that aren't his friends or lovers) you're not due any compensation because the EoC is just doing what you asked.

- Imperial Marriages now cost Grace for vassals and below of China (they previously cost Gold). There's a small chance of getting an interesting non-imperial bride instead if you're not a vassal or below of China. Republics and Theocracies need not apply, regardless of whether they are part of China or not. Any resulting peace deal now only lasts for 25 years rather than 50, and if the bride is non-imperial there is no peace deal.

- The Boons for Chinese Physicians, Siege Engineers, Strategists, Scholar-Bureaucrats, and Master Engineers are impossible to refuse if a vassal or below of China asks; they can probably find some lower court official that's willing to work for them, and as Boons go they're pretty harmless.

- The cost of a Border Adjustment in your favour has been increased considerably.

- Vassals and below of China have gotten a new Boon allowing them to request that the EoC fires a specific councillor. The cost depends on the target, is cheaper for the GC, and cannot be refused if a fully empowered GC asks.

- Vassals of China with the ambition to become a Grand Chancellor can now spend a massive amount of Grace to fulfill the ambition. As with the prestige-based decision, this cannot be refused.

- Vassals of China can now request to be made a commander, being impossible to fire for ten years if the Boon is granted. This is probably not terribly useful for the player, considering the risks if you're a crappy commander and that your liege probably will ask if you're a good commander, but it should potentially result in China getting some not-so-stellar commanders it can't get rid of easily.

- Vassals and below of China can now ask that the EoC renounces any (non-de jure) claims on their titles. This Boon is cheaper for the GC, can't be refused for the GC if the GC is fully empowered, can't be refused for powerful vassals if vassals are fairly influential, and can't be refused for any vassals if vassals are fully empowered.

- Vassals and below of China can now request Imperial Praise as a new Boon. This increases the opinion of your vassals, the EoC's vassals, and the EoC's councillors. This Boon is cheaper for the GC, can't be refused for the GC if the GC is fully empowered, can't be refused for powerful vassals if vassals are fairly influential, and can't be refused for any vassals if vassals are fully empowered.

- Asking to decrease your tributary tier is now more expensive as a Client State or Protectorate, particularly if China is interested in keeping you around.

- Vassals and below of China can now request artefacts as a Boon. This cannot be refused for vassals and below (as it's largely harmless). The cost has been slightly increased, the EoC now pays a flat cost for the artefact and no longer gets to pick what to send (because it gets tedious to go through the "menu"), and the artefact's quality will tend to be a bit higher if the EoC's Mandate rating is higher. There's also a fairly large number of additional artefacts you can get, all of them books.

- As hinted at in the last dev diary, vassals and below of China can ask the EoC to let them end an ongoing mourning period early. Unlike other Boons, this Boon can be requested during a regency if said regency is caused by you being in mourning.


There are also some related changes for the EoC:

- A decision to Bestow Grace (costing Prestige) has been added. This gives 200/500/1000 Grace (depending on real_tier, with the GC counting as a king regardless of tier) to the target realm lord and increases their opinion of you for five years. Perhaps useful if someone is on the fence about leaving a faction or voting as you like on the council/when it comes to the succession, but they'll of course potentially ask for something down the line.

- What constitutes a valid reason to refuse to accept a Tribute or to refuse to grant a Boon has been overhauled, generally making it a bit harder to find a valid excuse as it now checks for what the Chinese court would find very objectionable rather than what the EoC personally would find objectionable, so e.g. if you're the EoC's rival but you've not been too naughty he'll lose face (and thus hurt his MoH) if he turns you down.

- The AI can now refuse to accept Tributes and refuse to grant Boons even when doing so is inexcusable in the eyes of the court, but will primarily do it if they have a reason, if their GC insists (and they don't want to risk opposing their GC), or if they've got certain personality traits; for example, if the EoC is Lustful, male, not homosexual/Celibate/an eunuch, and adult, he'll probably be very likely to accept an Attractive concubine that's not got terrible traits, no matter the consequences.

- If the EoC asks someone for a Border Adjustment and the target refuses this gracious offer the EoC gets a claim on all relevant titles in the target's realm. This will naturally make China frown on you quite a bit, so do consider whether the duchy the EoC wants really matters that much to you.


All together, this should make gameplay in (and near) China a bit more interesting, particularly as a vassal. It should also have the potential to result in some historical-ish things; Chinese dynasties running into trouble because officials didn't get the stuff they (and the court) felt they deserved or because they got stuff when they were up to no good, Chinese armies suffering from poor leadership because some poor commander with connections was put in charge, competent advisors being fired due to the machinations of their rivals, and Grand Chancellors meddling in things to the detriment of their liege...


That's all for today. It'll probably be a while before the next dev diary since a good amount of the work planned for the near-ish future isn't terribly exciting to show off, but perhaps something a bit more exciting will get done sooner than I currently expect.

 

[Higakoryu]

Can female EoCs accept male concubines?

 

[shenxy13]

Can female EoCs accept male concubines?

As far as I know, the only way to get male concubines in the game is to be Bön (uneligible for Chinese Imperial), African (uneligible for Chinese Imperial) or a reformed faith with Equality/Enatic Clans (both uneligible for Chinese Imperial). As such, the Chinese Imperial government has no special provisions to modify concubinage for a female ruler, who would not have access to concubines. Technically, a reformed Shenist/Thanist/Muist faith with Equality/Enatic Clans is eligible for Eastern Imperial and such an Eastern Imperial EoC will benefit from the small additional number of consorts, however the Grace system is disabled for non-Chinese Imperial EoCs (due to it being based on the assumption that China is functioning roughly historically) so you'll have to use non-Grace methods to get male concubines anyways.

This likely will not change. Having a female EoC is barely historically relevant (there's been a grand total of one which I would consider having held the title of Emperor of China in in-game terms), she didn't set up a concubinage system parallel to the one male emperors had (she did have lovers, but they were created fiefs and generally treated differently from how imperial consorts would have been), polyandry in general was not really a thing in Chinese culture, the AI is incredibly likely to nuke its own succession with the ability to send male consorts to China, and even enabling Equality/Enatic Clans for Chinese Imperial without allowing male consorts to be sent runs into at least one further problem (with the Imperial Marriage system).

It's talked about a bit more in this old post: https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/threads/mod-tianxia-silk-road-expansion.816899/post-28015234

 

[Silversweeeper]

Can female EoCs accept male concubines?

No, and we'll not be adding the ability for female CI rulers to have male consorts and/or a way to send them due to the foreseeable side-effects (e.g. the AI easily stupiding its male line into extinctinction and not using the normal "Take Consort" interaction sparingly) and it being rather ahistorical (with one exception during... Liu Song?) and very frowned upon in China (including the aforementioned exception).

 

[CarbonBoy26]

Big fan of the mod!

 

[Silversweeeper]

Dev diary 68 - New religions preview

While quite a bit of work still needs to be done on them, a more proper preview of the new religions feels like a good idea at this point.

Starting in the northeast, we've got the new Nivkh and Jurchen religions (both pagan). As those religions are in areas covered by the 13.0.0 update, they'll be fleshed out as much as reasonable; as things currently stand, the Nivkhs will get a Warrior Lodge and a Bear Festival derived from the Iyomante (it'll not be identical, but largely similar), and the Jurchen will probably get a Warrior Lodge and some kind of feast decision (specifics to be decided). There is a small chance that the Jurchen will get access to CI/etc., but as it currently feels like a Warrior Lodge would be a rather good fit for them but would clash quite a bit with Chinese Imperial it's not particularly likely (I'll be taking one more look at the WL stuff to make sure, but...).

In China proper, we've got four new pagan religions plus the Confucian religion. The Confucian religion has been covered a bit in the past, and there's not really anything more to say about it at this point. The other religions are Benzhuism (Benzhuist), Bimoism (Bimoist), Moism (Moist; not to be confused with Mohism), and Kev Dab Qhuas. These religions represent the folk beliefs of the Bai, Yi, Zhuang, and Miao/Hmong peoples, respectively. I'd say chances are fairly good that at least some of these religions will get access to CI/etc. if unreformed or sensibly reformed, though as some of the cultures haven't sinicized a lot it's possible we'll decide against it, and it's still possible we'll discover that some of them should have mechanics or flavour that'd be very unsuitable alongside CI, so it's still not entirely certain. Chances are these religions will get to syncretize with Eastern religions (and Muist, Thanist, Ryukyuan, and Shenist pagans will probably also get to do this) if unreformed or sensibly reformed.

In Taiwan, there's the pagan Taiwanese religion. We'll not be able to represent all different religions in the area as separate religions, and just which group(s) we'll take the most inspiration from still needs to be decided.

Further south we've got the Nat and Satsana Phi pagan religions. The former is the Burmese folk religion, the latter the Tai folk religion. Sanamahi has lost a lot of ground. These three religions will likely get the ability to syncretize with Eastern religions.

Yet further south, we find the Andamanese, Pemena, and Minangkabau pagan religions. The second one is the Batak folk religion (more specifically, the name comes from the religion of the Karo subgroup).

In Java we can find the pagan Sunda Wiwitan religion and the Eastern (and Dharmic) Kejawèn religion. The latter can syncretize with pagan religions, and the former will probably get to syncretize with Eastern religions and Islam. Kejawèn will probably get a mix of Hindu and Buddhist features; the specifics need to be decided.

In Borneo we can now find Momolianism, and in Sulawesi we can find Minahasan. Both are pagan. The Kaharingan religion has lost some ground as a result.

In the Philippines we now have the pagan Anito religion. It'll probably get to syncretize with Eastern religions.

As you might have noticed, the Melanesian religion can no longer be found on the map. It can still show up thanks to the Treasure Fleet and/or the Sunrise Invasion, but it'll probably not be a relevant religion. As such, it's probably a religion that never will get anything more than the bare minimum required.



Finally, there's one more area to cover...

Particularly sharp-eyed readers might have noticed something in Japan way back when. It's a bit more prominent now.

There's not one, but two, new Eastern religions in Japan: Shugendo and Koshin.

No characters start out following either of these religions, but there'll be some chance of characters picking up the religions during gameplay (particularly if Shinto and Buddhist MA implode), and conversion decisions between these and the other relevant religions will be available (assuming you're not the Tenno, Zealous, or Japanese Monastic Feudal). At present, Shugendo can syncretize with pagans, and both religions have access to the Hanami (that'll likely change after 14.0.0, at least for Koshin), the WotRS, the Fellowship of the Kami (currently excluding pilgrimages; that'll be added after 14.0.0 as it's a decent amount of work to set it up), and Japanese Bureaucracy and Japanese Feudal (regardless of culture). Neither religion has a religion head. Missing/placeholder localization will obviously be fixed.


With the exception of the Jurchen and Nivkh religions, the new religions will not be fleshed out to any significant extent in 14.0.0, though some smaller things might be added sooner rather than later. A rough guide to what might be added can be found below.

- Will be added in 14.0.0: SRS and DW societies (most likely shared with some other religions in the latter case), unique Doctrines (to the extent that it's feasible to make them unique; accuracy/suitability beats uniqueness), eligibility for CI/etc. (if relevant), intermarriage setup (possibly something to revisit down the line if we realize it's wrong somewhere), five holy sites, holy order, crusade weights, crusader traits, feminist = yes and/or seafarer = yes (where appropriate), reformation weights.

- Likely to be added in 14.0.0 if deemed suitable (suggestions are welcome): Ancestor veneration, unique rel head localization, unique reformer artefacts, reincarnation, sky burials, syncretism, access to existing succession laws that make sense. If it's copy-paste or requires one or a couple of lines of script and doesn't belong above, it likely goes here.

- Unlikely to be added in 14.0.0: Non-SRS/-DW societies derived from existing societies (e.g. WLs), patron deities, pilgimages,. While some of this would be copy-paste, it's quite a bit more work than the above to get it to work properly, and it'll probably have to wait as a result.

- Definitely not something to be added in 14.0.0: Unique succession laws, unique feasts, unique(r) societies, unique flavour events, unique CBs. The more work it is, the more likely it goes here, and the more likely it is that it'll have to wait for quite some time.


I don't know when the next dev diary will be ready, nor what it'll cover (there are a few different topics that have to be covered prior to 14.0.0's release), but I think we'd better make it a nice one.

 

[SeekTruthFromFx]

Thank you to everyone who has made this amazing mod.

I am playing as the Liao Khagan at the 936 start. I have already discovered the helpful event to give me the Sixteen Prefectures. Great idea!

Is there any explanation of the decision(s?) to allow the Liao Khagan to claim the Mandate of Heaven and/or settle down as Chinese Imperial? I have JD (though not Rajas if that's relevant).

I've had a little look at the kom_khitan_decisions.txt file and it seems like I either need to settle (as feudal??) or acquire an Imperial bloodline by marriage (since none of the Liao characters seem to have one), [EDIT: on further digging through the files it seems that the Abaoji bloodline counts for this purpose? It's not clear in-game] but it's an understandably complex bit of script.

Please feel free to point me to a dev diary if it's already explained somewhere. I searched through this thread for such phrases and I got four pages of snippets for Liao, never mind the actual text of the posts, and it seems that many of the earlier dev diaries have long been superseded.

 

[Silversweeeper]

Thank you to everyone who has made this amazing mod.

I am playing as the Liao Khagan at the 936 start. I have already discovered the helpful event to give me the Sixteen Prefectures. Great idea!

Is there any explanation of the decision(s?) to allow the Liao Khagan to claim the Mandate of Heaven and/or settle down as Chinese Imperial? I have JD (though not Rajas if that's relevant).

I've had a little look at the kom_khitan_decisions.txt file and it seems like I either need to settle (as feudal??) or acquire an Imperial bloodline by marriage (since none of the Liao characters seem to have one), [EDIT: on further digging through the files it seems that the Abaoji bloodline counts for this purpose? It's not clear in-game] but it's an understandably complex bit of script.

Please feel free to point me to a dev diary if it's already explained somewhere. I searched through this thread for such phrases and I got four pages of snippets for Liao, never mind the actual text of the posts, and it seems that many of the earlier dev diaries have long been superseded.

Right click on the CoA of a county located in de jure e_china or the "China" region that's held by you, one of your vassals or below, one of your non-Chinese Imperial tributaries, or a vassal of one of your vassals or below, one of your non-Chinese Imperial tributaries and you should see the decision, assuming you'd currently be eligible for the government based on culture and religion.

However, the decision currently doesn't check for a potential game over due to an unplayable (after settling) religion, so you'd probably have some issues there if you're still Buddhist.

 

[SeekTruthFromFx]

Right click on the CoA of a county located in de jure e_china or the "China" region that's held by you, one of your vassals or below, one of your non-Chinese Imperial tributaries, or a vassal of one of your vassals or below, one of your non-Chinese Imperial tributaries and you should see the decision,

Thank you for the explanation! It makes sense given that's the interface for nomadic settlement too.

assuming you'd currently be eligible for the government based on culture and religion.

Thank you. It's great that the Tianxia team has coded this feature, but so far I have not been able to take the decision to become Chinese Imperial, and I am puzzled why. Any advice would be appreciated.

I am a Taoist Nomadic Khitan with an Imperial bloodline, so I should be eligible, right?:

Here is the tooltip I get:

The criteria that I clearly meet are these:

• I am not in hiding/seclusion
• I do have a suitable religion (Taoism)
• I am at peace
• I do not have a peace deal with China (the one I got in Sixteen Prefectures deal has expired)
• The holder of the vassal county is AI-controlled

I am not at peace, but that will be fixable with more playtime.

But there is a mystery criterion "Empire of China" which is not explained in the tooltip. Looking at the script, it says:

              e_china = {
                    holder_scope = {
                        NOR = {
                            current_heir = {
                                character = FROM
                            }
                        }
                        # The AI should not do this if it shares the dynasty of the EoC
                        OR = {
                            FROM = {
                                ai = no
                            }
                            NOT = {
                                dynasty = FROM
                            }
                        }
                    }
                }

It appears from e_china.text that e_china is the de jure Empire of China. I am neither the holder nor the heir to the de jure Empire of China, nor am I the AI. If it's de jure, I should not be blocked. But I am. So I wonder whether there is some other bit of script that is relevant?

I have tried a couple of approaches to get this. One way was to have a Chinese duke (Gongjue of Datong) as a Nomad Tributary and as you can see above I am blocked.

The other way was to I got my vassal in de jure e_china+China region by Subjugating the Jin, which (if I understood the in-game pop-ups rightly) removed my old Liao Empire title as forfeit and transferred me to the Jin Empire, which I renamed as the Liao. So I now have the previously Jin colour and arms on the map. It's still a Titular Title though. When I try to load this save, I get an instant Game Over though. I also get Game Over if I reject taking the Dragon Throne when the pop-up is offered.

Also FYI, I think I have all the relevant game rules turned on:

I have (non-Ironman) save games from before I became Taoist (from my wife) and subjugated the Jin and just after I replaced the Jin.

However, the decision currently doesn't check for a potential game over due to an unplayable (after settling) religion, so you'd probably have some issues there if you're still Buddhist.

Thank for the warning. I have now got Rajas via the Subscription Service to avoid this.

 

[shenxy13]

But there is a mystery criterion "Empire of China" which is not explained in the tooltip. Looking at the script, it says:

I took a quick look at the code and I think the issue is that you started in 936. In this start date e_china does not exist (due to the Five Dynasties and Ten Kingdoms not really having a "legitimate" Emperor of China as conceived of in Chinese histriography). As a result, when the game tries to make sure you're not already the heir to the EoC, there is no EoC to check against and it returns false by default. I'm pretty sure this is a bug, but I'm not sure whether it is fixed in the current dev build. It should be fixable by just adding an OR condition that checks whether e_china exists like this:

e_china = {
                OR = {
                    holder_scope = { # either you satisfy the condition relative to the current Emperor
                        NOR = {
                            current_heir = {
                                character = FROM
                            }
                        }
                        # The AI should not do this if it shares the dynasty of the EoC
                        OR = {
                            FROM = {
                                ai = no
                            }
                            NOT = {
                                dynasty = FROM
                            }
                        }
                    }
                    has_holder = no # or there is no current Emperor
                }
}

When I try to load this save, I get an instant Game Over though.

That's very strange. My game (with all DLCs enabled) crashes immediately upon loading the "just after I replaced the Jin" save, and I can't open the file to check because my laptop is stubbornly insisting to me that the file is somehow corrupted. Exactly what combination of DLCs were active when you created this save? The only possible reason I can think of for the instant Game Over is that something weird happened with DLCs and it decided that you couldn't actually play as a Taoist on loading, since if you were able to create the save I assume you successfully took over the Jin Empire without getting a game over.

 

[Silversweeeper]

[Snip]

Regarding the decision not being available, I believe I did all of my testing in 1066, so a bug that only happens if China has no holder wouldn't have been caught. That should hopefully be fixable with @shenxy13's solution, so I suggest you try that. If it doesn't work, please let us know so we can troubleshoot that a bit further.


As for the game over bug, I've discovered what's causing it, and it's a bunch of things coming together in a "fun" way. Since it might be of interest for other modders if they experience something similar, here's a brief overview:

- Cause the first: I failed to consider that some uncivilized barbarian a non-feudal (is_feudal = no) ruler ever could take over a pretender empire and experience the event, so the condition for "Yes, I want to keep being a pretender!" is available when it shouldn't be. "Fun" fact: If it wasn't available, you'd run into another similar bug as a nomad (see below).

- Cause the second: Taking the option above does actually not make you Chinese Imperial right away (I think that's because it didn't matter for feudals as the new primary title sorted it out, but it's been a while...). This can be seen if you keep playing, as your government stays Nomadic. It does, however, leave a title flag marking the new primary title as a pretender/FDaTK title, because of course it is. one of those.

- Cause the third: There was an issue with rulers that should have been Chinese Imperial not actually being Chinese Imperial in the past, and as of the latest public release the fix that was implemented for that was "Force anyone with a title flagged as a pretender/FDaTK title to become Chinese Imperial!". It's a blunt solution, but it works rather well... with feudal rulers.

- Cause the fourth: The above event doesn't only fire once; it fires whenever you load into the game, including from saves. Normally, that's a neutral-to-good thing, considering the government issue potentially appear during gameplay and would be desirable to solve on a reload, but the assumption "Only feudals will be holding flagged titles" was flawed.

- Cause the fifth: If you have a feudal (is_feudal = yes) ruler that doesn't hold any (non-nomadic) holdings for whatever reason -- say because your government was forcibly set to some kind of feudalism -- something's obviously not right. The game instantly validates the government type whenever it's set -- normally a good thing as you'd otherwise see other bugs -- and instead of going "Hey, you can't be feudal! Go be a nomad!" it decides to treat this roughly as if you're a historical ruler scripted as unlanded (or dead), and thus it creates a new ruler out of thin air and gives them all of your stuff, "solving" the problem with the weird ruler.

- Cause the sixth: You just lost your last title to a ruler from another dynasty (side note: I haven't tested this if you've got playable landed dynasty members somewhere...). Of course that means you get a game over, because that's how CK2 works!


I also discovered a related bug by accidentally not converting to Taoist prior to usurping the title the first time I tried: The "No, I don't want to be a pretender!" option (which is the only one available to you as a Tengri ruler) forcibly sets your government to the appropriate feudal (is_feudal = yes) government... and since you're still not holding any non-nomadic holdings that's an instant game over because the game "solves" the issue the same way.


Oh, and I checked what happens as the other playable non-feudals: Both tribals and MRs don't seem get a game over, regardless of whether you continue or load a save, and regardless of which option you pick. In the former case, I had a tribal holding, in the latter a city. It's just the nomads being nomads, it seems; of course they (and/or MRs) are misbehaving when you're doing something that's not in vanilla!


In short, it's not something that I can provide a quick fix for, seeing as it's a lot of different things coming together and any quick fix that's not tested might result in new and exciting bugs. As the related events have been completely replaced in the dev version I'm instead going to focus on making sure that particular bug isn't in the next version when that releases.

 

[SeekTruthFromFx]

I took a quick look at the code and I think the issue is that you started in 936. In this start date e_china does not exist (due to the Five Dynasties and Ten Kingdoms not really having a "legitimate" Emperor of China as conceived of in Chinese histriography). As a result, when the game tries to make sure you're not already the heir to the EoC, there is no EoC to check against and it returns false by default. I'm pretty sure this is a bug, but I'm not sure whether it is fixed in the current dev build. It should be fixable by just adding an OR condition that checks whether e_china exists like this:
<snip>

Regarding the decision not being available, I believe I did all of my testing in 1066, so a bug that only happens if China has no holder wouldn't have been caught. That should hopefully be fixable with @shenxy13's solution, so I suggest you try that. If it doesn't work, please let us know so we can troubleshoot that a bit further.

Thank you for this explanation and the bugfix. Yes, it works! The tooltip now lists an achievable condition. As the Liao of 936 (i.e. not subjugating the Jin), I can switch to Chinese Imperialism, save and reload (without Game Over).

That's very strange. My game (with all DLCs enabled) crashes immediately upon loading the "just after I replaced the Jin" save, and I can't open the file to check because my laptop is stubbornly insisting to me that the file is somehow corrupted. Exactly what combination of DLCs were active when you created this save? The only possible reason I can think of for the instant Game Over is that something weird happened with DLCs and it decided that you couldn't actually play as a Taoist on loading, since if you were able to create the save I assume you successfully took over the Jin Empire without getting a game over.

I think this mystery was cleared up by @Silversweeeper below, but for the record I had all DLC enabled except for the heavy metal music.

As for the game over bug, I've discovered what's causing it, and it's a bunch of things coming together in a "fun" way. <snip>


In short, it's not something that I can provide a quick fix for, seeing as it's a lot of different things coming together and any quick fix that's not tested might result in new and exciting bugs. As the related events have been completely replaced in the dev version I'm instead going to focus on making sure that particular bug isn't in the next version when that releases.

I could see it was a complicated bit of script but that must have taken quite a bit of effort to debug. Thank you so much for taking the time to investigate! I might investigate what happens if I switch to Chinese Imperialism after Subjugating the JIn at a later point, but in the circumstances it seems best just to forget about that approach and play from an earlier save now that I now how to use the Embrace Chinese Imperialism correctly. Or maybe I will try backporting the new Embrace Chinese Imperialism conditions checks from the GitHub into 13 if I am feeling ambitious during my Christmas holiday.

Note to self: the Tianxia GitHub is here.