Silversweeeper

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The new changes makes me a bit too concerned about having too many options that are quite similar to one another.

I don't think a lot can be done to prevent that.

- Chinese Imperial needs to be a thing that only pretender emperors and China have unless we want to complicate a lot of script unnecessarily and want to cause confusion ("Hey, I'm Chinese Imperial but I don't have the MoH/the Grace system/etc.!"). It also needs to have some special features (e.g. a ton of concubines for historical reasons and the Grace system) that are undesirable to give to entire religions (particularly as we'd need to mess up vanilla Buddhists!) or a government that's not restricted to a very small number of people.

- Merging Eastern Imperial into Confucian Bureaucracy is possible... if we want to completely discard the idea of giving emperor-tier rulers eligible for Confucian Bureaucracy that have not become Chinese Imperial (whether due to being ineligible or due to choosing not to become a pretender) extra concubines (no, we're not giving Confucian Bureaucracy more concubines). It'd potentially also have some disadvantages from a scripting standpoint (we'd need to check tier and government rather than just government in various places where we don't want to include every Confucian Bureaucracy ruler).

- Japanese Bureaucracy is desirable to separate from Confucian Bureaucracy to avoid confusion as to whether a certain vassal can swap to another government type or not, and separating it also makes it possible to define things differently in Japan(ese-style realms) and other bureaucratic realms on the government level, which might be relevant (whether in 14.0.0 or later).

- Japanese Imperial needs to be its own thing. The Tenno needs to have a ton of concubines for historical reasons, and it isn't desirable to give every (male) Shinto character or everyone with one of the other Japanese governments a ton of concubines, meaning we need to use a different government with a ludicrous amount of concubines. The Japanese government mess (regents/etc.) also needs to not come into contact with the Chinese government mess, so simply merging it into Chinese Imperial or Eastern Imperial isn't an option.

- I don't currently think merging Divine Imperial into Japanese Imperial is preferable from a scripting standpoint, and I don't think it preferable to completely discard the idea of giving the Ryukyuans a way to get a Tenno equivalent(ish).
 
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Jayavarman

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So I made the submod. I also posted credits in the README. It's a very minor edit to be honest. You can do whatever you want with the file ofcourse and I hope you think I credited the moddingteam appropriatly.

The changes that I made:
Khmer and Mon (but not Cham and Viet) now use Chinese faces with Bodpa facial hair, ears (for the earrings) and clothes.
Thai-kadai culture group now uses Chinese faces with Chinese facial hair, Bodpa ears (for the earrings) and clothes.
Why? The Khmer people are historically more South Asian/Indian looking with brown skin and wavy/curly hair.

Here is the earliest picture of a Khmer king from the 1860's before they started heavily mixing with Chinese migrants and French colonials:


1625536948695.png


Here is the Chinese first impression of Cambodians, one of the earliest historical records a Chinese diplomat/traveler wrote in the year 649 (almost 1,400 years ago):

1625537147966.png
 
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Abdalrahman3

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Hi, everyone! I'm sorry to drop in like a wayward paratrooper, but I see a lot has happened with this mode (which is awesome, congratulations and huge thanks to all of you!) and I think it's easier to just ask my question here, than to sift through a substantial amount of text on this threat. I hope you understand.
Anyway, my question is: Will it be possible in any way to convert a Tianxia game to EU4?
 

Silversweeeper

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Hi, everyone! I'm sorry to drop in like a wayward paratrooper, but I see a lot has happened with this mode (which is awesome, congratulations and huge thanks to all of you!) and I think it's easier to just ask my question here, than to sift through a substantial amount of text on this threat. I hope you understand.
Anyway, my question is: Will it be possible in any way to convert a Tianxia game to EU4?

Things relevant to CK2 gameplay have priority over the EU4 Converter, so it isn't going to be supported anytime soon since there are many things left to do that are relevant to CK2 gameplay (several of them quite large).
 
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Silversweeeper

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Dev diary 57 - Early work on 14.0.0

It's been a month and change since the last dev diary, so even though there's not really much in the way of new content that has been done I figure an update might be a good idea.


Work so far can be divided into two categories: Polishing/balancing/optimization/etc. work, and work related to the Imperial Family (of Japan).

The latter category has involved filling in early and legendary emperors (dates are fudged out of necessity for a bunch out of them, seeing as we can't have negative dates) and their children (plus a few other people relevant to them, e.g. Empress Jingu and her father/grandfather/etc.), adding some missing children for emperors that already had been added to the mod (up to, and including, Go-Reizei at this point), adding a few traits here and there, and fixing some small issues. Many members of the Imperial Family are of course not around in any start date, and a decent number of them get surnames (e.g. Minamoto and Taira), but the number of characters that belong to the Imperial Family at some point is now a bit in excess of 1000. There's still a bunch of emperors left to go over, and once the Imperial Family is done it'll be prudent to go through various other families that have been added in the past (e.g. the Fujiwaras, at just shy of 800 characters) to look for possible improvements before moving on to other families (there's a good number to add, seeing as a lot of information can be found and that many of them are important and/or famous) and other things related to the historical setup.


The former category has involved a bunch of different things. A few of them are the following:

- Several artefacts have been made a bit less powerful.
- Hachimantaro's bloodline no longer gives easier access to Shogunates (it's still pretty powerful).
- Malayo-Polynesian cultural buildings no longer get deleted on holder culture change, consistent with other cultural buildings.
- Nickname logic has been improved a bit.
- The ambition to become a Grand Chancellor and the related decision now require less prestige, particularly if your liege has a regent.
- The AI now evaluates a bunch of decisions a bit less frequently, which should help with performance.
- A bunch of on_action events are now less frequent, which should help with performance.
- The EoC doesn't really care about his more distant relatives any more (Read: You don't lose Grace as easily) as it made his bureaucrats feel a bit overworked (Read: Resulted in extra checks costing performance in a bunch of places), and has agreed to let a few things slide (e.g. breaking up with him or spurning romantic advances from him).

A lot of things related to polishing/etc. still needs to be done. Going off of the number of files that remain to be checked (not including some leftover TODOs tied to future work), the halfway point was reached a while back, but a lot of the files that have been checked so far were pretty straightforward, and any one file might take a lot of time (e.g. it took about 3.5 h to get one file (containing a couple of hundred lines) off the list today, as it was related to stuff scattered across close to 200 files). Some new things will have to get done as part of this work, but anything major will be prudent to delay until after the old stuff is in a good spot.


That's all for today. Dev diaries will most likely remain infrequent for a while, seeing as there's probably not going to be much done in the short term that's interesting to write about or look at.
 
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Jayavarman

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That's all for today. Dev diaries will most likely remain infrequent for a while, seeing as there's probably not going to be much done in the short term that's interesting to write about or look at.
False. We are very interested in everything! :)
 
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Silversweeeper

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The new governments are coming along fairly nicely. Localization still needs work, a bunch of references to old scripted_triggers need to be hunted down and updated, and a bunch of graphics remain (Edit: Done), but the setup is rather far along. Here's a preview of the Japanese Bureaucracy government, which is approximately the same as Confucian Bureaucracy when it comes to inherent functionality (at least so far).

ck2_2.png


As previously mentioned, legendary emperors (of Japan) are now a thing. Dates are obviously fudged for BCE ones since we can't have BCE dates. The gaps are there to allow reigns to begin on the correct month and day and to account for historical gaps (pre-Stamford Bridge; we can't have gaps after that), with the date of coronation/enthronement used if different from the start of de facto rule.

ck2_4.png


You also get to add some rather unique things sometimes when you're working on legendary people...

ck2_3.png

A number of smaller things have also been done. Two of the more notable ones is that Grand Chancellors now can serve themselves the realm even better in Chinese Imperial realms as they now have the ability to create kingdoms and duchies regardless of their liege's MoH rating and that the Tenno no longer has free duchy revokation inherently, making it harder for him to manage vassals that are doing things that he might disapprove of (e.g. consolidating power through war or inheritance, joining factions, or switching to better government types).


Edit: Graphics got done more quickly than I expected.

- Chinese Imperial has been changed to be the same yellow as e_china. They've also got a new icon that's a bit more fitting for someone that sits on the Dragon Throne or that claims they have the right to do so.

ck2_1.png


- Nomadic has been changed since its old colour was a bit too similar to the new Chinese Imperial one. The new one is roughly Reformed Tengri blue. Trust me, the difference between this colour and the one used for Feudal is greater than between the old one and the new Chinese Imperial one.

ck2_3.png


- Eastern Imperial uses the old Chinese Imperial frames, icon, and colour. You can find those in various old screenshots.

- Divine Imperial uses the same pinkish red as the flag of the Okinawa Prefecture. (Note: Nobody starts with this government), while the icon is based on the royal crest of the Ryukyu Kingdom (surrounded by a border in the same pinkish red).

ck2_5.png


For Japanese Imperial, Japanese Feudal, and Japanese Monastic Feudal, and Confucian Bureaucracy, see what's already in the mod/found in various old screenshots. For Japanese Bureaucracy, see the top of this post.
 
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neutrondecay

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I love all of this - it's looking so good.
You also get to add some rather unique things sometimes when you're working on legendary people...
Rare or unique death types are a thing of joy in modding. I'm rather proud of the two Faerun characters who 'vanished in a mysterious mist', and the one who ascended to godhood.

nd
 

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Rare or unique death types are a thing of joy in modding. I'm rather proud of the two Faerun characters who 'vanished in a mysterious mist', and the one who ascended to godhood.

I'm also rather fond of interesting nicknames when I find them, and -- though it doesn't show up in the game -- putting fun things comments or other places (e.g. burninate_with_extreme_prejudice_effect).
 

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Hello love the mod and would just like to ask why the versions of the mod in first post and the one on Silversweeper's bottom link are different? Presumably I should use the latest one, Alpha13, but is there any reason why I shouldn't?
 

Silversweeeper

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Hello love the mod and would just like to ask why the versions of the mod in first post and the one on Silversweeper's bottom link are different? Presumably I should use the latest one, Alpha13, but is there any reason why I shouldn't?

You should be using the 13.0.1 version unless you've got a pre-13.0.0 save you want to complete (13.0.0 most likely broke old saves), seeing as it is the lates*t version and contains the fewest bugs (some minor things have been discovered internally since its release).

The opening post still has the 12.0.0 "version"** because LumberKing has been busy (which also explains why there aren't threadmarks for dev diaries 48-57) and hasn't gotten around to uploading the correct version there (I have no ability to do that since I can't edit his post). You really don't want to use it, seeing as it contains a bunch of (at the time) WIP stuff (that potentially had noticeable bugs at the time), some known issues (that have since been fixed), and at least one uncontained internal experiment (since removed since it didn't pan out).


* Unless you count the internal dev WIP that eventually (it's still very far off) will become the 14.0.0 release, which currently is a buggy mess since some major overhauls are only partially done; for example, Liao didn't settle (I have them set to do that instantly) and (Xi)-Xia isn't Chinese Imperial in the screenshots posted today due to the same bug in two different places.

** I put "version" in quotation marks here because it actually is a dev WIP partway between 0.1.1/12.0.1 (don't ask) and what later became 13.0.0 that got released due to the planned re-release of 0.1.1 as 12.0.0 (again, don't ask) coincided with a major restructuring of our dev repository and there thus was confusion as to which branch contained the version that was supposed to be re-released and which branch contained the WIP stuff.
 

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Why? The Khmer people are historically more South Asian/Indian looking with brown skin and wavy/curly hair.

Here is the earliest picture of a Khmer king from the 1860's before they started heavily mixing with Chinese migrants and French colonials:


View attachment 737689

Here is the Chinese first impression of Cambodians, one of the earliest historical records a Chinese diplomat/traveler wrote in the year 649 (almost 1,400 years ago):

View attachment 737690
How do I make my proposed corrections to Khmer faces ingame? :D
 

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The new governments are coming along fairly nicely. Localization still needs work, a bunch of references to old scripted_triggers need to be hunted down and updated, and a bunch of graphics remain (Edit: Done), but the setup is rather far along. Here's a preview of the Japanese Bureaucracy government, which is approximately the same as Confucian Bureaucracy when it comes to inherent functionality (at least so far).

View attachment 746590
Wait, does the Japanese Bureaucracy Icon adopt to your dynasty crest?
 

Silversweeeper

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Wait, does the Japanese Bureaucracy Icon adopt to your dynasty crest?

No. However, considering the Fujiwara family (and the Five Regent Houses descended from it) was a pretty big deal in the Japanese bureaucracy it felt like a rather good choice, particularly as the background colour (which tends to match the ribbon colour and the map colour) was different from everything used elsewhere (and as I knew I could put it together despite my limited artistic ability).
 

Silversweeeper

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Dev diary 58 - Reformation tooltips, bureaucracies, eunuchs, and other things

Though most that has been worked on since the last dev diary is polishing old stuff (still not done) and adding members of the Imperial Family (which is as done as it's likely to get for the foreseeable future; this also goes for the family of a certain queen...), a few assorted things have gotten done, which is a decent enough chunk for a rather unfocused dev diary.


Reformation tooltips:

As there has been considerable confusion regarding which pagan reformations give access to Chinese Imperial (and other governments) in the past and that the upcoming changes might confuse people that have memorized the old setup tooltips have been added to the relevant Nature, Doctrines, and Leaderships explaining which religions are eligible and whether a certain pick would be allowed. The exact phrasing might be updated before release, but it'll probably be pretty similar overall.

ck2_3.png


If you're wondering about the Leadership that's partially concealed by the tooltip, it's the new Divine Ancestry leadership (still not completely done, but it's mostly minor stuff that remains as far as the Doctrine itself goes).


Bureaucracies:

The various bureaucratic governments -- Chinese Imperial, Confucian Bureaucracy, Eastern Imperial, Japanese Imperial, and Divine Imperial; note that this does not include Japanese Feudal or Japanese Monastic Feudal -- have been changed in a few ways:

- First off, all of these government types have been rendered unable to have Full Council Authority (i.e. forced Elective) or any elective succession laws (excluding the Tenno's special law and the upcoming knock-off for Divine Imperial). This change also applies to Japanese Feudal and Japanese Monastic Feudal. The reason for this is that it's quite likely to break various things in new and interesting ways from time to time (e.g. if the Shogun gets Feudal Elective and the Kampaku is elected, it's a mess), and since none of the realms that have these governments had some kind of elective system historically it avoids things going ahistorical in that particular way (which didn't really factor into the decision, but which might be a bonus). It is possible that some specific laws will be restored if it turns out the issues with them can be dealt with in a less blunt manner, or that special options that are set up to take various possible issues into consideration will be introduced in the relevant places, but no promises (I don't consider it a priority due to the aforementioned historical situation).

- Secondly, while rulers with the bureaucratic governments can fire their councillors (including advisors and Council Eunuchs, where relevant) -- unless blocked due to e.g. the councillor being a Grand Chancellor -- they now need to spend prestige to do so, scaling based on the number of laws in the council's favour and your tier (with Japanese and Divine Imperial always counting as emperor tier). This partially counters the fact that they can't be completely unable to fire councillors, which is part of Full Council Authority, and it should make it harder in general to get rid of people trying to become Grand Chancellors, people controlling a bunch of votes, and that nobody you want to fire to be able to give a spot to a powerful vassal that's leading or supporting several dangerous factions. Note that the tooltip below is slightly inaccurate -- a Permanent Regent means the cost always is the maximum -- and that the cost might be adjusted before release.

ck2_1.png


- Thirdly, king-tier bureaucrats are able to have Imperial Administration and Duchy Viceroyalties, which should make their realms a bit less likely to become hereditary, particularly Confucian Bureaucracy realms since they have free duchy revocation. Free duchy revocation is of course also available to Chinese and Eastern Imperial, but they're of course able to have Imperial Administration and Duchy (and Kingdom) Viceroyalties by virtue of being emperors. Japanese Imperial, Japanese Bureaucracy, and Divine Imperial all lack free duchy revocation, seeing as it's undesirable for them to have the ability to easily revoke stuff from vassals that are going Japanese Feudal/Japanese Monastic Feudal (none of the bureaucratic governments can do tyrannical revocations).

ck2_7.png



Eunuchs:

Council Eunuch randomization has been restricted quite a bit, which should result in the result being much less weird if you set up a Chinese Imperial (or Eastern Imperial) realm in some unexpected place (and it'll also result in the relevant scripted_effect requiring less performance, even if it is unlikely to be noticeable by itself). They are also no longer required to have high Learning (or high stats at all), which means that that useless nephew or disappointing grandson you sent as Tribute actually might be appointed from time to time even if he has abysmal stats (which might not be good for you if he's still upset about the whole "snipping" thing, but if that was due to e.g. your Court Physician trying to cure the flu you could potentially benefit from having an ally in a position of power).

ck2_2.png



Updated title colours:

Vietnam and assorted titles that were part of its de jure previously had very similar colours to the adjacent Khmer Empire and large parts of its de jure. This has now been fixed.

ck2_6.png
ck2_5.png
ck2_4.png


It's quite possible Lan Xang's colours will be updated to match the rest of the Khmer Empire to avoid similar confusion with regards to Burma.


Near-ish future plans:

Though it's possible something else will get done first, chances are assorted things in relevant in Korea and relevant for Ainu characters will be looked over relatively soon. As it is fairly new content, I don't expect to find too many instances where I decide that I don't like what I did before and need to make significant changes, but there will probably be some minor tweaks. If you have any suggestions as far as adjustments go, I suggest making them before much longer. If there is anything you feel could be added in these areas, feel free to suggest it, but bear in mind that large additions might be pushed to a later version even if they're good ideas, and that it also is possible that some idea will be decided against for one reason or another.


Additionally, since it will become relevant as part of work on stuff in Korea (if not in a major way), I have a question regarding Confucianism and Neo-Confucianism: Which of the following implementations would you prefer, why, and -- if you picked either of the latter options -- what would reasonable differences be?

Option 1: Every Confucian and Neo-Confucian character has the same religion (Confucian). This would be the most straightforward setup, and would mean there's only one additional (non-pagan) religion to consider how to make unique (at least down the line) and neither underpowered nor overpowered next to the Taoist and Buddhist religions, but it'd obviously mean there is no difference between Confucians and Neo-Confucians as far as the game goes.

Option 2: Every Confucian and Neo-Confucian character has the same religion (Confucian), but there are different schools, similar to e.g. Mahayana/Vajrayana/Theravada for Buddhists. This would require coming up with at least one additional school beyond Neo-Confucian to implement (I suppose "Traditionalist" could be a fallback option meant to be "Not-Neo-Confucian") that's not something that was invented after the era, and would require something different for the schools. It'd be easier to set up than two separate religions, but schools would not be possible to make as distinct as religions could be in every regard.

Option 3: Confucian and Neo-Confucian are two different religions. This would require there being enough differences between the two that it's not effectively "Pick the name/map colour you want to see and which people have a slight penalty due to religious differences" (and both of them having strengths and weaknesses, as "Always pick X!" isn't a good implementation) while still keeping them balanced with respect to other relevant religions.


That's all for today. Dev diaries might remain infrequent for a while yet, seeing as there still is a bunch of old stuff to check and that some of that might result in a lot of time spent doing things that either are boring to look at or that don't result in any visible changes ("Adjusted value X", "Improved AI logic for decision Y", "Optimized event Z", etc.).
 
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Jayavarman

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Nice.
 

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I would go with option 2. Make the schools do things like +1 learning, -1 martial. Maybe name them after Confucian philosophers who espoused manners, war, order, subtlety, and knowledge. Have "traditionalist" give an opinion bonus twice as big as the negative opinion from opposite trait.

Is there any more going on for the Buddhist or Muslim schools?
 

Silversweeeper

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I would go with option 2. Make the schools do things like +1 learning, -1 martial. Maybe name them after Confucian philosophers who espoused manners, war, order, subtlety, and knowledge. Have "traditionalist" give an opinion bonus twice as big as the negative opinion from opposite trait.

Is there any more going on for the Buddhist or Muslim schools?

Muslim schools have a little more (one of them can completely avoid going Decadent, they can try to make people swap to their school, and there might be a couple of additional smaller things; I've not played as a Muslim for any significant amount of time since 2.1). I don't think Buddhists (or other Dharmics) gain anything not inherent in the branch traits (and Taoists don't get more for their modifiers; that might be something to change down the line, however), and I'd personally be fine with that for Confucian branch traits (though if there's more that can be done to make them more distinct it'd be nice). However, outside of possibly having a "Traditionalist" school to avoid just having one school, I'd prefer not to make up schools just to have more schools.