The Imperial Chantry vs. the Chantry in Val Royeaux thing is pretty much a fantasy counterpart to the Catholic vs. Orthodox schism. They even sometimes co-operate against the Qunari (=Muslims).
[Mod] Thedas Kings a Dragon Age Mod
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The Imperial Chantry vs. the Chantry in Val Royeaux thing is pretty much a fantasy counterpart to the Catholic vs. Orthodox schism. They even sometimes co-operate against the Qunari (=Muslims).
Also, do the elves have any titles such as the Dales or Arlathan Forest? And how will the dwarves be handled?
To anyone interested in this mod project: I'm building a map of Thedas for CK2, and have been granted access to Chalkface's files (that gentlemen of a modder is disgracefully no longer working on the project). With that, it seems that the original team has practically dissolved.
So, I was considering making my own push at the thing -maybe to fail miserably, but maybe to get something event lighly resembling the world of Thedas. So, I will briefly post some screenies of my work in the physical map and my draft for de-jure map, only if someone is so kind as to tell me how to embed images in these posts. Any feedback will be greatly welcome.
Also, I intend to open a new thread, so as to differentiate projects, and wasn't unsure of how to name the "new" attempt. Do you think that "A world teared apart" would do for a name? (in reference to inquisition trailers quote).
If any member of the original team, or anyone in general interested in collaborating comes over here, please drop me a PM.
So, I was considering making my own push at the thing -maybe to fail miserably, but maybe to get something event lighly resembling the world of Thedas. So, I will briefly post some screenies of my work in the physical map and my draft for de-jure map, only if someone is so kind as to tell me how to embed images in these posts. Any feedback will be greatly welcome.
Also, I intend to open a new thread, so as to differentiate projects, and wasn't unsure of how to name the "new" attempt. Do you think that "A world teared apart" would do for a name? (in reference to inquisition trailers quote).
If any member of the original team, or anyone in general interested in collaborating comes over here, please drop me a PM.
As promised, here is my de iure setup first draft (county berders in green, ducal ones in blue, kingly ones in black, imperial ones in red)
As you can see, the dales has its own empire, which will of course not be in place at the start, and only be creatable under specific circumstances; the Dales will be de facto under Orlais. Every other realm is empire level, with each Free March being a kingdom tier. In fereldem, kingdom tier means theirnirs (most of them will be hardly creatable though), duke tier mean arl and count tier mean bann. Note though that when I make the historical setup many titles will be fine-tunned via titular titles. De jure structure is only a base framework.
Also, note that titles encompasing forests and high mountains will be held by "inactive" characters à la ruins in AGOT or wilderness in MEP, with some nomadic people tossed in, switching provinces every once and them (Dalish, chasind, and... other thing. Mwahahaha).
The deep roads will be represented in a landmass "east" to the Amaranthine Ocean, but I have yet to work on than -the surface takes priority.
Any imput on provinces distribution will be gratefully welcome.
Also, if someone has a Thedas map based in the one above with higher resolution and/or without the distortion at the center (a byproduct of scanning) and wanted to share it, it would help with the aesthetical side of the map. Alternatively, any advise on how to edit the image to get rid of said distortion would be highly valued.
Thanks you and stay tunned for future updates
Edit: my connection is troubling me right now. Can someone confirm wheter the image is correctly displayed?
As you can see, the dales has its own empire, which will of course not be in place at the start, and only be creatable under specific circumstances; the Dales will be de facto under Orlais. Every other realm is empire level, with each Free March being a kingdom tier. In fereldem, kingdom tier means theirnirs (most of them will be hardly creatable though), duke tier mean arl and count tier mean bann. Note though that when I make the historical setup many titles will be fine-tunned via titular titles. De jure structure is only a base framework.
Also, note that titles encompasing forests and high mountains will be held by "inactive" characters à la ruins in AGOT or wilderness in MEP, with some nomadic people tossed in, switching provinces every once and them (Dalish, chasind, and... other thing. Mwahahaha).
The deep roads will be represented in a landmass "east" to the Amaranthine Ocean, but I have yet to work on than -the surface takes priority.
Any imput on provinces distribution will be gratefully welcome.
Also, if someone has a Thedas map based in the one above with higher resolution and/or without the distortion at the center (a byproduct of scanning) and wanted to share it, it would help with the aesthetical side of the map. Alternatively, any advise on how to edit the image to get rid of said distortion would be highly valued.
Thanks you and stay tunned for future updates
Edit: my connection is troubling me right now. Can someone confirm wheter the image is correctly displayed?
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I dont think this would be corect. The codex in DA:O states that Arls are merly prestigious Banns and do NOT have other Banns as vassals. So Teryn's should be Duke level and only some few strategic important Count's should be Arl's. Having only two (existing) Duke titles would be a bit weird but this is how it would fit best I think.
EDIT:
Here:
Codex entry: Politics of Ferelden said:
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This issue has largely been discussed earlier this thread. In abstract, there are several ponts that wwalen the advisbility of the design option you suggest (and which that fragments appear to back):
-Arl Emmon is able to field an army able to stand for the one lost in Ferelden. That would be hardly achievable by someone under the duke tier.
-given the number of provinces, and specially considering the upcoming vassal limit, if ferelden kings had mostly only counts directly under them, the situation would be un-mangeable.
-In the past, theirnirs were indepwndwnt titles, eash sovereing within their own lands. That fits the kingdom level ritle, having crown authority
There are pros to your stance, and cons to the one taken here, but I think a better gameplay representation takes priority over nominal fidelity.
-Arl Emmon is able to field an army able to stand for the one lost in Ferelden. That would be hardly achievable by someone under the duke tier.
-given the number of provinces, and specially considering the upcoming vassal limit, if ferelden kings had mostly only counts directly under them, the situation would be un-mangeable.
-In the past, theirnirs were indepwndwnt titles, eash sovereing within their own lands. That fits the kingdom level ritle, having crown authority
There are pros to your stance, and cons to the one taken here, but I think a better gameplay representation takes priority over nominal fidelity.
Teyrns would be Dukes, in terms of gameplay.
Arls would probably be best represented by larger provinces with a significant number of baronies -- important holdings, in other words.
Insofar as Arl Eamon fielding an army in DAO, that's not entirely the case. He has a force which is significant, particularly in light of the fact it was not present at the Battle of Ostagar (and thus was not decimated), but the force which comes to the rescue of Denerim at the end of the game is made up of the Arl's force in addition to the allies the player recruited from the other plots.
If you prefer to do otherwise, that's up to you. I can only answer as to the game's lore specifically.
Arls would probably be best represented by larger provinces with a significant number of baronies -- important holdings, in other words.
Insofar as Arl Eamon fielding an army in DAO, that's not entirely the case. He has a force which is significant, particularly in light of the fact it was not present at the Battle of Ostagar (and thus was not decimated), but the force which comes to the rescue of Denerim at the end of the game is made up of the Arl's force in addition to the allies the player recruited from the other plots.
If you prefer to do otherwise, that's up to you. I can only answer as to the game's lore specifically.
Thank you for the lore remark. As for representing arls as basically large counties with many baronies, that can potentially deprive the possibility of other banns raising to power and being granted an arldom, based on the structure of the respective province(s). As for the arldom of Redcliffe, specifficaly, it seems to me like it would be of the same power capacity that at least a theirnir, and it remains one of the main powerbases of Ferelden. That would need at least a count with many counties. (Indeed, Redcliffe is the overlord of the village in which "the stone prisoner" takes place, and that's almost in the frontier with the Korkari wilds.In the proposed map, that means the arl having to own at the very least the four or five provinces that would connect Redcliffe and Honnleath. That would probably mean having to boost the arl's demesne limit. I'd really prefer not to).
I need to take a look at how malleable the localisation is, but if I can I will make, as said before, theirnir be kingdoms (most likely titular, with the de-jure ones being uncreatable), arls being dukes, count beign locasied as "lord" when under an arl, and bann when otherwise, and barons being freeholders. That way the cannon is nominally respected, and the mechanical structure is robusted.
In any case, the provinces layout is only a first concept. If the number of provinces per realm were to be finally signoficantly reduced, I would go with baron = freeholder, count = bann/arl duke = theirn king = king.
On another lore note, does anyone know what is the feudal hierarchy/taxonomy outside Ferelden and Orlais?
And yet in another lore note: I am in the process of collecting a list of names for characters and provinces/titles. Any suggestion/contribution will be highly apreciated and duely credited
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I think the main thing is that Ferelden has to be a kingdom -- if it were empire tier, then Orlais could never have ruled over it (which it did, and with a king in Ferelden at the time).
Really, there should be a lot fewer provinces in Ferelden in general. It's considered a backwater compared to the rest of the continent, and a lot of that territory is either uninhabited or is occupied by Chasind or Avvar (Chasind in the southern forests, Avvar in the mountains). Technically I'd say that translates into void territory in CK2+, but that's up to you.
As for feudal hierarchy outside of Ferelden/Orlais:
* For Tevinter, you probably can't go wrong with emulating the Roman Empire-- at least to a degree. The emperor-tier title would be the Archon. Beyond that, it's a little odd, as there are no nobles per se. There are families (the magisters), but they don't really "rule" over settlements... not officially. The more official ruler would be a military title, like a Prefect, but otherwise Tevinter works a bit more like a republic (with the only voters being the magisters themselves).
* Antiva is ruled by a King/Queen and has a traditional hierarchy. You'd have to account for the Crows, however, as they're a pretty important force there.
* Nevarra also has a King/Queen and traditional hierarchy, and the two big dynasties being the Pentaghasts and Van Markhams.
* Anderfels has a High King. Grey Wardens wield significant influence there, and would rule Weisshaupt and the surrounding territory (like a holy order, one supposes).
* Rivain has a Queen, and is a more matriarchal society.
* Free Marches would be broken up into petty duchies, though it can be united as a whole (it's been done once before). The individual duchies have different titles for their rulers:
Kirkwall: Viscount
Starkhaven: Prince
Tantervale: Lord Chancellor
Ansburg: Margrave
Ostwick: Teyrn
(these are the only listed ones)
Really, there should be a lot fewer provinces in Ferelden in general. It's considered a backwater compared to the rest of the continent, and a lot of that territory is either uninhabited or is occupied by Chasind or Avvar (Chasind in the southern forests, Avvar in the mountains). Technically I'd say that translates into void territory in CK2+, but that's up to you.
As for feudal hierarchy outside of Ferelden/Orlais:
* For Tevinter, you probably can't go wrong with emulating the Roman Empire-- at least to a degree. The emperor-tier title would be the Archon. Beyond that, it's a little odd, as there are no nobles per se. There are families (the magisters), but they don't really "rule" over settlements... not officially. The more official ruler would be a military title, like a Prefect, but otherwise Tevinter works a bit more like a republic (with the only voters being the magisters themselves).
* Antiva is ruled by a King/Queen and has a traditional hierarchy. You'd have to account for the Crows, however, as they're a pretty important force there.
* Nevarra also has a King/Queen and traditional hierarchy, and the two big dynasties being the Pentaghasts and Van Markhams.
* Anderfels has a High King. Grey Wardens wield significant influence there, and would rule Weisshaupt and the surrounding territory (like a holy order, one supposes).
* Rivain has a Queen, and is a more matriarchal society.
* Free Marches would be broken up into petty duchies, though it can be united as a whole (it's been done once before). The individual duchies have different titles for their rulers:
Kirkwall: Viscount
Starkhaven: Prince
Tantervale: Lord Chancellor
Ansburg: Margrave
Ostwick: Teyrn
(these are the only listed ones)
Historically, Starkhaven was ruled by a king; it wasn't until the Vaels took over that the title of Prince was adopted.
I want chasind and avvar peoples in, but indeed, it need to be "cut down to sizi, though I still want to have "void" provinces here and there.
Tevinter: I will have to come up with a greekinsh-latinish taxonomy.
Anderfels: Would you think that Irish tolitles fit in there, then.
Free marches: I'm quite doubtfull of how to treat the hinterland between the cities. Also, when were the marches united, and under what title? I don't remember anything in the world of thedas chronology
Antiva, Nevarra: What do you mean by "traditional hierarchy"?
Ferelden under Orlais: I figured Meghrem rulership will be indeed a king tier, and then theirns and arms would be demoted, angering them thus, promoting factions.
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In another note, I will be posting a list of names, dynasties, and places, sorts by cultures and realm, respectively. It's a minor thing, but one that adds to flavor and immersion. It would benefit from any contribution.
Would it be too cliché to assume that Orlais can use French names, Anderfels German, Free marches British, Tevinter Greekish-latinish, Antiva Italo-Hispanic... (what about Rivain amd nevarra?).
Tevinter: I will have to come up with a greekinsh-latinish taxonomy.
Anderfels: Would you think that Irish tolitles fit in there, then.
Free marches: I'm quite doubtfull of how to treat the hinterland between the cities. Also, when were the marches united, and under what title? I don't remember anything in the world of thedas chronology
Antiva, Nevarra: What do you mean by "traditional hierarchy"?
Ferelden under Orlais: I figured Meghrem rulership will be indeed a king tier, and then theirns and arms would be demoted, angering them thus, promoting factions.
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In another note, I will be posting a list of names, dynasties, and places, sorts by cultures and realm, respectively. It's a minor thing, but one that adds to flavor and immersion. It would benefit from any contribution.
Would it be too cliché to assume that Orlais can use French names, Anderfels German, Free marches British, Tevinter Greekish-latinish, Antiva Italo-Hispanic... (what about Rivain amd nevarra?).
Anderfels Irish? It is as German as it gets. Anderfels (!), Weisshaupt (!), Hossberg (!), Kassel (!), Lattenfluss (!). It is thinly veiled Teutonic Order stuff up there ...
No need to put anything Irish there
Also: There was no Fereldan king under Orlais. Calenhad was the first one after he drove off the Orlesians. Ferelden as an empire is still the best choice to portrait Ferelden.
No need to put anything Irish there
Also: There was no Fereldan king under Orlais. Calenhad was the first one after he drove off the Orlesians. Ferelden as an empire is still the best choice to portrait Ferelden.
Anderfels Irish? It is as German as it gets. Anderfels (!), Weisshaupt (!), Hossberg (!), Kassel (!), Lattenfluss (!). It is thinly veiled Teutonic Order stuff up there ...
No need to put anything Irish there
Also: There was no Fereldan king under Orlais. Calenhad was the first one after he drove off the Orlesians. Ferelden as an empire is still the best choice to portrait Ferelden.
I know it is in general german. I was only remarking that the top-tier title localisation is High King, so maybe the ander localisation for the other tiers should be something equivalent to any culture in our world that had high kings, and my reduced knowledge led me only to irish. Of course in the rest of the aspect, Germany should be the main inspiration.
Quick question: is it possible to have separated localisation for titles under certain condition? I have in mind my earlier talk of fereldan counts under a duke being localised as "lord" and fereldan counts under a king or emperor being refered as "ban". Would that be doable?
Also, regarding, Orlais rule over ferelden, I was refering the one overthrown by Maric, Cailan's father. That one had a puppet king or sorts, called Meghren, if memory serves.
Not irish, no. German.
I don't think there needs to be a hinterland. Each city-state is actually a duchy composed of multiple provinces... as a whole, they'd cover the Free Marches. As for the Free Marches being united, I think it was under Tyrus -- but that may have just been his attempt to unite them as a kingdom and failed. I forget.
I mean King/Queen, Duke, Count, etc. If you want cultural types, Antiva would be Spanish/Italian (it has elements of both) and Nevarra would be French.
Incorrect. Meghren was appointed King of Ferelden by Orlesian Emperor Florian during the occupation.
The confusion here I that there were two Orlesian invasions, the one stopped by Calenhad, and the one ended in Maric's time
Regarding Ander titles, it could be high king(emperor) king (king) Herzog (duke) ... Don't know about the others. I want to reserve margrave/landgrave for Ansburg.
I thought nevarrese culture were more intertwined with marcher than orlesian. And yes, ideally, I would want culturally differentiated titles. I this world, the vanilla nomenclature is orlesian, and having an anti an addressed in orlesian fashion seems unimmersive to me. But I'm open to debate on the issue, though
That is a sexy map. I think Teyrns should be dukes as well. Banns of course counts and Arl maybe an honorary title or something? You can make Banns powerful by adding significant holding improvements and giving banns that are powerful canon-wise these improvements by default.
I'm with the "teyrns = kings" camp, that's just a better way to portray their power.
There is a forum post of Gaider or a different dev that says that Nevarra is supposed to be similar to one of the Spanish kingdoms (Castille, Leon, etc.). Makes sense, we all know that there is a place called Navarra in Spain (that was a kingdom before).
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