[MOD] The Prince and the Thane - 1.092 Only

[cordeda]

The title earl for welsh should be Prince (since the english have earl for amost every grade of title this should work out just fine).

Actually, the title "prince" was used in Wales first by Llywelyn ap Iowerth in the early 13th century, as he was asserting his dominance over the native Welsh lords, to put himself above the kings of Deheubarth, Powys, or "whatever small piece of ground I control" by using the old Roman "princeps," which his successors Daffyd and Llywelyn the last took up as well. Therefore, King would be a good earl level title, as it was used that way historically, but Prince should only be used for king tier and above.

 

[Divi]

Prince is just a shitty translation of Tywysog, I know, I'm aware. If it was up to me I'd have used Tywysog (and maybe Teirn if there's a need to seriously distinguish count and duke; Brenin is iirc less equivocal about meaning king). I just feel weird about having every petty tribal title going to king - it wouldn't have been called king if Wales had managed to stay united.

Unlike Ireland I really don't see anywhere there being a notion of the paramount ruler of the Britons being "High King".

 

[Cèsar de Quart]

Edit - For the messy heraldry problem: every time you edit a title file, you need to delete the flag cache in your user gfx folder.

I thoght as much, and I did, but I'll try again just to be sure.

Thanks!

 

[vlakc]

Question. When can we expect to have the latest version of SWMH (2.72 at the current time) merged with this work? not meant to be imposing or anything, just curious.

 

[unmerged(728569)]

My game seems to crash when ever I actually start time while playing the mod, any suggestions for this?

 

[Divi]

My game seems to crash when ever I actually start time while playing the mod, any suggestions for this?

What version of the game? The mac version requires a tweak in the modfile to load (you need to comment out the mod_dir line in the .mod file).

 

[unmerged(728569)]

PC Version, lastest update with The Republic installed

 

[Already in Use]

Hey guys... I'm hearing such great things about his mod... I watch arumba07's lets play on youtube and I'm absolutely STOKED to play this! Looks like you guys have done an AWESOME job! So... Kudos!

That said... I can't play it... LOL
It crashes on loading everytime I try to load it up. Am I missing something?

The Details:
Running verson 1.08d of TPATT
Running on an $6k Alienware machine with win 7 via Steam. (I can't see how it would be a hardware issue when I've got 16G of RAM among other awesome things)

I have MOST of all the DLC from the game, save some song things and faces, and the Sunset Invasion (because it's just ridiculous). I have tried to start it both with and with the DLC checked. With out it checked, it just crashes faster (like in 4 seconds) where as it would seem to almost get there with all the DLC checked (crashes in around 12 seconds or so).

Also, just an observation. I'm sure not the only one with this issue... and "issues". This thread REALLY needs it's own folder so someone doesn't have to search through 419 pages of stuff completely irrelevant. I did look... searched for "crash" but after around 20 minutes, I just said F@ck it and thought I'd just post it.

Any and all help is appreciated!

 

[Aardvark Bellay]

current version 2.0.6

Sooo....

 

[Polskers]

Hey guys... I'm hearing such great things about his mod... I watch arumba07's lets play on youtube and I'm absolutely STOKED to play this! Looks like you guys have done an AWESOME job! So... Kudos!

That said... I can't play it... LOL
It crashes on loading everytime I try to load it up. Am I missing something?

The Details:
Running verson 1.08d of TPATT
Running on an $6k Alienware machine with win 7 via Steam. (I can't see how it would be a hardware issue when I've got 16G of RAM among other awesome things)

I have MOST of all the DLC from the game, save some song things and faces, and the Sunset Invasion (because it's just ridiculous). I have tried to start it both with and with the DLC checked. With out it checked, it just crashes faster (like in 4 seconds) where as it would seem to almost get there with all the DLC checked (crashes in around 12 seconds or so).

Also, just an observation. I'm sure not the only one with this issue... and "issues". This thread REALLY needs it's own folder so someone doesn't have to search through 419 pages of stuff completely irrelevant. I did look... searched for "crash" but after around 20 minutes, I just said F@ck it and thought I'd just post it.

Any and all help is appreciated!

It's because you're running an old version of the mod. You need to download the latest version from the front page.

 

[Already in Use]

It's because you're running an old version of the mod. You need to download the latest version from the front page.

Ah... I guess the new stuff hasn't made it to other sites yet. I didn't even look at the first page... my bad!
Thanks!

 

[aesthete]

When I started the game in 1073 as Castille, I saw that there were 12 holy orders. Less than three months into the game, there are no holy orders available. Is this a bug?

 

[Alrekulfr]

I have an idea for a new type of casus belli. From what I've been reading about medieval history, many wars were fought over personal matters, such as some sort of slight. So there should be another kind of casus belli, which I think has been implemented in the Elder Kings mod. Certain actions will be considered insults, such as divorces, excommunications, killings, imprisonments, that kind of thing. If a character commits an insulting action on another character, the victim and their relatives and friends will receive an honor casus belli on the offender and their liege, which can be of two types. The first type, a minor slight, such as imprisonment or verbal insult, will allow those receiving the casus belli to demand a certain amount of gold for compensation relative to the offender's base income. The second type, a major slight, such as the killing of a relative or friend, will allow the user of the casus belli to imprison the offender, whether they be a landed noble, or a minor courtier, to do with them what they wish, and a possible sum of gold for compensation from the person on whom war was declared, unless that person was the offender, in which the gold would be demanded from their heir. A succesful execution of the major casus belli might also result in the deposation of the offender.

 

[Bread8756]

Is anyone else having MASSIVE slowdown with this mod? I played it a while back and it was definitely slower than vanilla, but not this bad.

 

[takedown47]

My spymaster keeps asking me if I want to kill my bastard daughter. The problem is, she died years ago of natural causes. This same problem also happens for gaurdians wanting to educate dead children.

 

[zero0731]

Peerage system for England seems not working, same for Cardinal system.
Those events never happen for me.

Is there any conditions to see the events? There's nothing like that in tptt_british_peerage_events.txt , but maybe I missed.
Oh, I became king of england after peerage setup event. Maybe that's what keeps me from it.

Also, some times, when I use decision buy indulgence and Pope dies before event happens, that event freeze there.

 

[eatme]

The Early Blazon website which I've been a regular contributor to and knows rather well because of that, isn't exactly the best argument you can find to say I should make things different. You're only giving me more material to prove my point here.

I'm not sure what you find generic about my work. Is it because the style is the same everywhere on the map ? In that case you'll be surprised to learn that style doesn't exist in heraldry. It's not part of the blazon, so it can't be translated on paper and thus contradicts the whole first principle of heraldry : the blazon and the emblem are the same thing, one can replace and transform into the other at any point, everything is conceptual including the colours and the artist is the only one responsible for its interpretation in art, any way he sees fit. In the case of the mod I'm placing myself into the shoes of a medieval artist, so think of it as a gigantic roll of arms with someone painting it for you.

Look at the roll of arms in the website you linked. Brian Timms took hundreds and hundreds of hours to reproduce them. Even better, look at the original documents on internet, most of them can be found now with the progress of digitized iconography. You'll see that the style is the same from the beginning to end of a same armorial (or a wall painting for that matter).

Aye I see your point about the stylistics which I can agree with. Yet my point was somewhat different.
Lets take for example CoA for House of Wettin, since dynasty is being rather famous and old. In 1.9111 its CoA was as it is found in most sources like Earlyblazon, others like this one or even Wiki. In 2.06 it is more of a generic CoA which is also shared by other prominent houses like Askanien an Billungs close enough. So my point here is that since in 1.911 all above houses had original CoAs, why make it all generic ?
Your point granted, it may be more historically plausible for 11th c. But in my book, having unique dynasty CoAs (even somewhat embellished or stylized for the lack of factual early heradlry references) is really adding GP immersion to playing each one of them. For me this is what counts )

 

[man_utdmasta]

game periodically crashes and this is the only thing in the error log:

[pdx_backend.cpp:29]: PUST ERROR 1: Couldn't connect to server

Help please...

 

[Solo_Adhémar]

Aye I see your point about the stylistics which I can agree with. Yet my point was somewhat different.
Lets take for example CoA for House of Wettin, since dynasty is being rather famous and old. In 1.9111 its CoA was as it is found in most sources like Earlyblazon, others like this one or even Wiki. In 2.06 it is more of a generic CoA which is also shared by other prominent houses like Askanien an Billungs close enough. So my point here is that since in 1.911 all above houses had original CoAs, why make it all generic ?
Your point granted, it may be more historically plausible for 11th c. But in my book, having unique dynasty CoAs (even somewhat embellished or stylized for the lack of factual early heradlry references) is really adding GP immersion to playing each one of them. For me this is what counts )

This is a matter of evolution. The crancelin, that bend you see on those arms was added much later. Heraldry is an ever evolving system and changes often happened over time due to those various factors I already pointed (alliances, taste, symbolism). In Italy for example the guelphs and ghibellines families often chose to represent their allegiances by adding the imperial arms in chief, or lis flowers (the Medici), or even by changing completely the colours of the emblem. One case is quite famous for combining dynastic arms together : the Luxemburg and Limburg dynasties. This isn't something rare or reserved to high nobility but a very common process that illustrates the evolution of emblems over time. Before 1300 lions don't have tongues, claws or crowns, they can have double tails but that's about it. There are no quartered shields either or exterior ornaments, since the cimers only appear around that time. That said it's mostly the rising number of newly ennoblished families in the XVth century that will give birth to modern heraldry because they often chose or changed (depending on the area) their arms at that time and often used complex design or unique pieces to compensate for the lack of prestige.

Imitation in any way is one the keys to understanding medieval heraldry. The urban legend about people forbidden to use the same arms as their neighbours is just that, a legend. Many french families used identical arms to the king, just as a number of german dynasties or political entities (even more common) used the imperial arms as their own. This leads me to the second point about the similarity of the arms in a dynastic or political group. This is called an "heraldic group" and is the most interesting feature of studying heraldry. Heraldry is a social code, some sort of medieval id card which gives information about the individual using an emblem. In that regard context is everything, and the only way to understand the reason behind that choice. Now it's an individual system, at least in the middle ages, even if individuals in a dynastic or political group can choose to use the same arms without any change (they can use brisures but not necessarily). That's a very important things to understand because the middle ages are all about tradition and prestige and this is what matters here.

What we call cadet branches where never considered a clear split in the medieval mind. In some areas, very large dynastic group, with distant cousins would still consider themselves part of a same dynastic group and represent themselves as such. One example I often give because it's a striking and undebatable one is the group of the dauphins. It's also one of the very rare examples of a preheraldic emblem : an emblem can take many forms, including colours and in that case names. When heraldry reach the area, probably at the time the duke of Burgundy inherit the county of Viennois, the three lines of the dynasty have already been separated several generations ago. Still over the course of the following century, the three counts (Forez, Clermont and Viennois) will adopt very similar emblems featuring the medieval dolphin with different colours. Now this is a widespread feature of heraldry, the counts in that case chose a similar animal to represent their appartenance of a dynastic group (also a political alliance), but you can find all sorts of reasons to those heraldic groups : political alliances is one and there's a good example in the change of arms of the counts of Burgundy during the XIIIth century. At that time the counts shift their interests and political siding to the french kingdom and adopt new arms. In that case the colours (azure/gold) makes them enter the very large heraldic group of the capetians. Claims can be another one, the bosonid example I gave in an earlier post in one of those in which everyone try to get a piece of the prestige of the early counts.

If you want to know a bit more about this (I'm trying not to make another wall of text), there's a section on the EarlyBlazon website called pedigrees where Pascal recreated some of those dynastic heraldic groups. You can see there how designs and colours pass from one individual to the other and make cadet branches an evolution of the previous group of individuals often linking everyone and their arms to the very first individual to use heraldry in that group (Vermandois/Capétiens is a very striking one).

 

[alscon]

Well, to the history of courtiers at war with their liege... Happens to me periodically, as randomly generated courtiers arrive and I then get a message like
" Andrew (or any other courtier) declared NO_TEXT_FOR_KEY war on me ( or any of my vassals)":huh:.
I don't know if I should see this as a bug or a feature.

The effect of that declaration of war is only a -30 "declared war" relationship malus, but well... what should one courtier do against a 1.000.000 soldiers strong empire?