[Mod] The Matter of Britain

[Shaytana]

I can't wait for you to fill the map up... I feel an irresistible urge to play this mod.

 

[Slaxl]

richvh: good idea. that's something to work out later, but I'll keep it in mind.

Woody Man: thanks. Nice wyvern, btw.

Orinsul: I like the idea, but do you have to list every barony that can be built in the landed_titles.txt or can you just create a certain holding without defining it thus? There are some islands and obscure places on the map that would be purgatory-on-earth to a sixth-century Briton hermit.

I agree with Orinsul, and besides, it's always better to keep things open for the player rather than predefined, otherwise that's half the gameplay taken away from the player... ok maybe not half but still.

If you need help thinking up names of empty potential baronies i'd say they don't have to be contemporarily historical. I mean look at middlesex in vanilla, Tottenham? The Barony of Tottenham? Might as well have had Milton Keynes or Potters Bar for all the use it was. Fulham? Chelsea?! At least Chelsea has a barracks, but I think they were just chosen on the basis of football. Staines probably because of Ali G.

We can think of suitable sounding names that aren't really trully contemporary is my point, for gameplay purposes there should be some.

If you need help just ask, I'd happily trawl through olde tabvlae to help.

 

[Orinsul]

For fictional baronies, natural place names would do. or where theyre arent enough a common name with a object after it, Bran's Barrow, Owain's Spear etc. Or references to mythical thing to reflect a place getting a name from a local legend, Sidhe Creek, Houndshollow, Cauldron Hill [where the locals say the hill is the Pair Dadeni upturned] or that sort of thing. As places today are named for a connection to King Arthur, places then might be named for a connection to the Tuatha or older kings/gods.
The name of the holding coming from the name of the field/hill/wood the monastery/chapel/castle/etc was built on.
Definitely all the roman forts, forums and other sites would make good names for baronies or provinces as they were important.

Probably there are enough natural names to cover but if not probably itd be easy enough to justify made up ones for baronies that have to be built to exist.

 

[duinnin]

do you have to list every barony that can be built in the landed_titles.txt or can you just create a certain holding without defining it thus?

I believe so. I mean, if someone creates a new holding, the game will pull a b_name from another c_name, but I'd imagine you'd run into a problem once the number of vacant b_names ran out, and the new baronies would be appearing in the wrong areas. So its best if you have 3 holdings, landed titles should have 3 holdings.

 

[RedRooster81]

Mod Development Blog #3: Petty Kings and Pretty Things

Alright, by popular demand, I am uploading Matter of Britain 0.02. A nice bit of the map is now colored in. I give you: Wales.

There are seven kings, great and small, who rule over this corner of Britain. Going from north to south:

1. Gwynedd - A kingdom in three parts, divided between Upper Gwynedd where the High King sits, the island of Anglesey, and Lower Gwynedd. They are cousins and allies to:
2. Ceredigion - Usai ap Ceredig rules this stretch of coastline facing the Irish Sea. Speaking of the Irish . . .
3. Dyfed - Founded by Irish exiles in the late fourth century, Dyfed is a Gaelic-speaking enclave amid her Briton neighbors. Her king Vortepor controls six cantrefi, or provinces, and his vassal Lord Cai of Pebidiog protects the coast from roving pirates.
4. Glywysing - A lovely stretch of coastline facing the Severn Sea, where ships call from distant ports at Caefdyff.
5. Gwent - A small, independent principality, divided into upper and lower provinces.
6. Brycheiniog - A landlocked independent kingdom founded by the legendary King Brychan, who is supposed to have fathered twenty-four children. His son Rheid the Red-Faced now rules there. Same dynasty as Dyfed.
7. Powys - Another important kingdom with an interesting past. Powys, known formerly as Pagenses, was the homeland of High King Vortigern. His descendants still rule there, but still remember the glory days of the 420 and 430s.

So there you have it. Seven independent monarchies. Things to do:

• No external threats. No one has an outstanding strong claim on anyone else at the moment.
• Dyfed is in a good position to form the uber-Kingdom of Deheubarth. King Vortepor is heir to his aging cousin King Rhein. . . .
• Lord Cai's sister Wenna is his heir. She might make a good queen to any ambitious southern lordling.
• House rules: agnatic-cognatic gavelkind all around; everything else is still set to the vanilla defaults. The Insular Celtic Christians (everyone right now) belong to the Orthodox branch of Christianity (arguably this reflects their eastern Mediterranean roots). So Orthodox rules.
• All COAs (both title and dynasty) are randomly generated, so they may change with each reload. Or at least from version to version.
• Look out for obvious bugs. Like unlocalised titles, number of starting baronies (balance). If you get into violence, let me know how it goes (BB gun rule).
• Report anything else that seems relevant. Right now, the family trees are skeletal. I have more family data on each of the rulers, but did not include it, for easier inheritance, etc. This will change in the future.
• This is an alpha, but it should be as stable as vanilla. If not, report any CTDs or other weirdness along with any relevant data from your error logs. The only things that I have changed are the map, the history files, and the COAs. Everything else is very vanilla-y.
• Enjoy. I've given you a small world to play in, but hopefully it works okay. Try running other mods with it that should not conflict if you feel adventuruous.

*SPECIAL THANKS*

A lot of folks have sent me their encouragement, but in particular:

Keanon for offering Patrum Scuta for my own diabolical purposes. The flags and dynastic arms look absolutely stunning. Oh, and Deheubarth's arms came out as a red dragon. How did you know?
Shaytana for Better Looking Characters. The Irishmen in Dyfed in particular look great, but the Britons look fine in their finery.
Duinnin for the map. Can't thank you enough.
Korba for general graphical and mapping advice over the last few weeks.
Arko, Orinsul, and many others for their comments and support.

OH, and here's the link you're all looking for: http://www.mediafire.com/?bf8caz9r4s2nmjd

 

[Orinsul]

That looks awesome, i'll test it now.

One thing thats just occured to me looking at this map, is the border of wales where the kingdoms in wales ended before the saxons came? Might powys have extended into 'england' back when it was all britain. For this mod that might matter. The mountains that let them keep wales when they lost everything else might have also been natural borders before-hand though.

 

[RedRooster81]

Something I forgot to mention. thank you, Orinsul. Powys will get Hereford and the West Midlands (which they had before Mercia and Wessex got aggressive). Gwent will also get another province to the east, what was called Ergyng at the time and later Archenfield. I worry that Gwent is a little small compared to her neighbors. Something to watch out for.

 

[Deflare]

I'm waiting until the mod is more fleshed out before trying it, but I quite like the work done so far. That map of Wales is a thing of beauty.

 

[Slaxl]

Something I forgot to mention. thank you, Orinsul. Powys will get Hereford and the West Midlands (which they had before Mercia and Wessex got aggressive). Gwent will also get another province to the east, what was called Ergyng at the time and later Archenfield. I worry that Gwent is a little small compared to her neighbors. Something to watch out for.

How do you know what they had before the Saxons came?

Also the map looks great. When I first saw screenshots of CK2 in development and I saw the borders on the map I thought they were borders of duchies, and if you zoomed in it'd break up into the counties. Finally this map creates the level of detail I thought the game would have.

Edit: How does one delete attachments? I started my post by making a wholly different point about later Saxon kingdoms, which is why I included that map, but I then changed everything and forgot I had included the map... silly me. Oh well, it's a nice map, enjoy it

 

[Orinsul]

In the Mabinogi Briton has 154 cantrefs [or 154 under the high king] but no where seems to mention a map of them or list the names, its just gives the number.

 

[richvh]

With the lowered age of majority, age for choosing plots/ambitions should be lowered as well. The 15 year old Cai can't choose any ambitions at game start.

Some localizations of baronies seem to be missing. "At age 17, Eliza de b_hirvyn died after a period of illness." "Alor de b_perued, Mayor of b_perued" "Budoc de b_caeaw, Mayor of b_caeaw" "Morvan, Mayor of b_maenawr_dellaw" "Alor de b_cetheinawg, Chancelor of Mawr" "Alis de b_iskennen" "Helori de b_hirvyn" "Koulizh de b_widigada" "Paol de b_mab_eluyw", all from just browsing the realm population of Dyfed; I'm sure there's some in the other realms as well.

Edit: In Glywysing, "Judikael of b_llanhilleth". In Lower Gwynedd, "Arzhur de b_colion" "Anton de b_dogfeiling". That's all I could find without loading up as a different character in a different realm, or checking each barony one by one.

Edit 2: Dyfed baronies missing localization: b_mallaen, County Capital of Mawr. b_caeaw, city in Mawr. b_maenawr_deallaw, city in Mawr. b_hirvyn, County Capital of Bychan. b_perued, city in Bychan.

Glywysing baronies missing localization: b_castell_newydd, County Capital of Gwynllwg. b_llanhilleth, city in Gwynllwg.

Gwent: no problems

Brycheiniog: no problems

Powys: no problems

Ceredigion: no problems

Gwynedd baronies missing localization: b_dogfeiling, County Capital of Diffryn Clwyd. b_colion, city in Diffryn Clwyd.

That seems to be it.

Edit 3: Shouldn't there be a straight province modifier between Arfon (mainland) and Rhosyr (Anglesey)?

Edit 4: "Earl" seems odd for a Briton ruler of a cantref, since it's a word derived partly from Anglo-Saxon "aeldorman" and partly from Norse "jarl". Maybe localize it to "Lord" like you did for the Irish Cai?

 

[RedRooster81]

Thanks for the feedback, everyone.

@Deflare: thank you for the encouragement. It will be a while, so I thought I'd do regional releases. Do stay tuned and send me any feedback or ideas you want to.

@Slaxl: I'm going by what I can piece together from online resources. This is not a scholarly kind of thing, just for fun of course. The maps that historians have done for the period, up to the seventh or eighth century show Powys having an eastern portion, up to Offa of Mercia creating the dyke intended to keep out Welsh raiders. Furthermore, the 'kingdoms' were based on tribal boundaries that existed during and just after the Roman occupation, and these maps tended to show the Pagenses from whom Powys takes its name as occupying modern Hereford. I hope that gives you an idea of why I am not done expanding Powys.

I'm happy you're enjoying the more regional map. I think that the vanilla map is too big sometimes, so I thought a regional map would be a nice setup.

@Orinsul: For cantrefs I'm relying on John Rhys, ed., The Red Book of Hengrist. The listing is rather XIII century AFAIK, with some influence from the Norman conquest, but it's the best that I can do. I may replace some of the barony names and still split up some more of the larger provinces. All based on how balance works out. The Saxons and Normans interpreted cantref to mean shire/county and commote to mean hundred or district. In the end, I think these provinces work pretty well, but we'll see over the long term.

Here is a map made up from these and other lists compiled in the medieval era and by modern scholars: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cantref and a partial one for commotes: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commote

richvh: Thank you for checking the baronies for localisation. I thought I had gotten them all. Will do an update. Is it a strait between Anglesey and the mainland that you're talking about. I need that. Also, I need to put in sea provinces for the Irish Sea, so I guess playing Gwynedd is kind of limited right now. thanks.

Thank all of you for your support, and I hope you enjoy the mod.

 

[richvh]

richvh: Thank you for checking the baronies for localisation. I thought I had gotten them all. Will do an update. Is it a strait between Anglesey and the mainland that you're talking about. I need that. Also, I need to put in sea provinces for the Irish Sea, so I guess playing Gwynedd is kind of limited right now. thanks.

Yes, the straight between Anglesey and the mainland. Did you see my final edit above?

 

[RedRooster81]

Yes, the straight between Anglesey and the mainland. Did you see my final edit above?

No, but I do now. Thank you. I think 'lord' is what I will do. Strange, I thought that I used <count_celtic;Lord;...> in the localisation.

 

[RedRooster81]

Started carving up the rest of southern Britain into big chunks that I will later divide into duchies and counties. This is even more terra incognita than my Wales adventure, so I'll have to be really imaginative. This is a fantasy mod, after all, but I am trying to get an accurate map of things c495 or so. There aren't that many sources on kingdoms east of the Ambrosian Line that ran from York down through Oxford and to Southampton.

On another front, I am thinking of events to mark boundaries by building big ditches and dykes. Most famous is Offa's Dyke that separated Mercia from Powys. And then there's Hadrian's Wall.

EDIT: As for the discussion yesterday about making provinces each have one holding, I am thinking it would be cool, but I'm not sure all that popular. I would like to try it out as an add-on to the main mod, where each province in MoB has one castle and a town, representing the military and the civil power or alternatively the lord and his manor.

 

[Joel M Bridge]

Started carving up the rest of southern Britain into big chunks that I will later divide into duchies and counties. This is even more terra incognita than my Wales adventure, so I'll have to be really imaginative. This is a fantasy mod, after all, but I am trying to get an accurate map of things c495 or so. There aren't that many sources on kingdoms east of the Ambrosian Line that ran from York down through Oxford and to Southampton.

On another front, I am thinking of events to mark boundaries by building big ditches and dykes. Most famous is Offa's Dyke that separated Mercia from Powys. And then there's Hadrian's Wall.

EDIT: As for the discussion yesterday about making provinces each have one holding, I am thinking it would be cool, but I'm not sure all that popular. I would like to try it out as an add-on to the main mod, where each province in MoB has one castle and a town, representing the military and the civil power or alternatively the lord and his manor.

are planing anything special events/decsions for kings and high king, more then just creating the title? alot celitc/germanic kingship, is king high priest (pagan) Judge, and imporntaly War leader of his tribe/kingdom. Special if add mystical element, the pagan on high king throught ritual was all ways marry to spirtual some feritaly Goddness.

PS would not mind working on event line for you where said ruler become a holy man/saint.

 

[RedRooster81]

Hey, Joel. I'm finishing the map first before I start on events, but yeah the high king is going to be a big deal. If there is too much in-fighting the title might disappear or be only recognized by a few supporters. You've got a lot of big kings who don't want to recognize anyone as their superior. that's for the imperial title that I want to do later. Right now, I am calling men with the king-level title high king, because rulers who held a few provinces would call themselves king or queen at that time. It works pretty well with gavelkind, with the high king of Gwynedd being the oldest brother, while the smaller kings under him are his brothers or cousins. I will have events later so that you can throw off your older brother's authority or claim it for yourself.

I will have some events for abdicating and becoming a monk or hermit. There seems to be a tradition in the 400s and 500s that defeated kings should become monks or those who reach a certain age. You can work on that if you want to.

 

[richvh]

Have you looked at what neondt is doing with his Ard Ri na hEireann mod, specifically the challenge to new High King events?

 

[RedRooster81]

Have you looked at what neondt is doing with his Ard Ri na hEireann mod, specifically the challenge to new High King events?

We've talked about it. Maybe we can share some events further down the road.

 

[richvh]

It would be nice if the symbol of the insular Christian faith was a Celtic cross.

Speaking of which... any Druidic holdouts in ex-Roman Britain? I'm sure Ireland would still be thoroughly Druidic, as 495 is about the time St. Patrick went there.