[Mod] The Matter of Britain

[neondt]

@dsturnbull: Sorry, but I haven't tried this game with Mac. I am planning on a new version pretty soon, so stay tuned. If there is anything that I can do with packaging it better for compatibility, let me know please.

@Slaxl: I'm not so sure about culture penalties. It's sort of one size fits all the -10 penalty. I thought of tweaking that down but upping the wrong religion group penalty (i.e., for pagan Franks ruling over Christian Bretons). I'm not sure. Let me know what you think.

Coming up with a separate name list is a bit of a chore as neondt said. I might just copy the Saxon one and put down some variants. If you want to work on an Angle culture file, I'd be more than happy to implement it.

I'd forgotten about the opinion penalty... I really don't think an Angle would inherently distrust someone because he was a Saxon. A -5 penalty at the very most I'd say. Vanilla CK2 includes "Frankish" and "Italian" in the lowest level of cultural distinction. By that standard Angle and Saxon are the same culture. As you said before, it's probably best to keep culture simple. If you are going to split them up, it might be a good idea to reduce opinion penalties for characters in the same culture group.

Just a thought, but how about actually reducing the wrong religion group penalty? By about half maybe. To counter that, you could increase the opinion penalty for the zealous trait (by however much you reduce the base religion penalty), and write an event that makes it more likely for a character to become zealous if his liege is of a different religious group. My understanding of the Christianisation of the Anglo-Saxons in particular is that most people weren't all that bothered by their leader being of a different religion (applies for both 'Christian' realms where rulers lapse back into paganism, and pagan realms where the ruler converts), unless they happened to have the real life equivalent of the zealous trait. There were certainly reactionaries when a ruler tried to convert his subjects, but that's about as far as it went in terms of religious hatred. I certainly wouldn't equate it to the enmity between Christians and Muslims during the Crusades, which is presumably what the vanilla relations penalty is designed to model.

 

[RedRooster81]

Good suggestions on the religious modifiers I think. Religion and culture were only so important to most people, most of the time, or at least less important than vanilla CK2 makes them out to be.

 

[RedRooster81]

Okay, Britain south of Hadrian's Wall is filled in. Quite a lot of work I'll admit. I'll post some screenshots once I get the titles modding done.

 

[neondt]

Okay, Britain south of Hadrian's Wall is filled in. Quite a lot of work I'll admit. I'll post some screenshots once I get the titles modding done.

Awesome, looking forward to seeing that

Edit: Also wrote some more history for the later Anglo-Saxons. Obviously a lot of title files will have to be renamed when a new version comes out, but here's how it's looking atm:

Spoiler

 

[RedRooster81]

@neondt: In the spirit of exchange, here is my work-up on SE England: you can see the sovereign kingdoms of Kent, Sussex, Middlesex (Caer Lundein--Surrey + Greater London), and East Anglia. Caer Lundein is more like later Essex + Middlesex--well, these can become duchy-level polities later on. With culturally derived geography, it's possible now to have a rather smooth transition from Roman to Saxon names. I'm not at the stage of nitpicking over boundaries yet. But I thought I'd share what I have going.

I created some Roman lords for the 'lost kingdoms of Logres' because by and large we don't know much about who was in charge there. Seems that once the Saxons and Angles and Jutes had a 'critical mass' of their own folk, they took things over. I plan to control this by religious and cultural minorities (by province modifier) and also factions and warfare in the host kingdom--which is what happened historically in Yorkshire, Hampshire (with Cerdic of Wessex), and the big early move in Kent. So you can have the muscle of Germanic vassals as a Roman or Celtic lord, but if you get into a civil war or a protracted foreign war, etc., then you may lose your kingdom, at best reduced to the vassal of your former sworn swords.

 

[neondt]

Looking good! Surrey is definitely better. No more ugly vertical province in the east from 0.4 Caer Lundein looks like a decent analogue for Essex/East Saxons (whichever you want to call it. I suppose if you're using Wessex rather than West Saxons, Essex is better). Not that de jure kingdom boundaries are hugely important, as they can be mucked about with in a day 1 event for different start dates.

The minorities and vassal merc mechanics sound like a really good way to bring the Saxons to power. Much better than just randomly spawning a doomstack in York.

 

[RedRooster81]

Thanks for the feedback, neondt. I'm not too sure about some of the counties I'm creating in this part of the map, so later I could use some more detailed notes from anyone who wants to comment of course.

As for the names, it doesn't matter too much for me really. I can call them the South Saxons rather than Sussex if you think it's a better approach, at least for the earlier years. 'King Cerdic of the West Saxons' sounds a bit cooler than 'King Cerdic of Wessex' in fact. I'll play around with short_name titles and see what I can do.

Yeah, I prefer to have sort of coups and plotting instead of doomstacks. I'm not a big fan of doomstacks actually.

Ideally, there would be a few ways for it to go, including having the local barbarian leader take things over (either submitting to him or going into exile or be killed in the process), accepting that most of your subjects are pagan Saxons and going native yourself, or basically trying to integrate them into your realm (maybe including having the barbarian leader convert to your religion). All of these should have serious consequences in the game. The traits of both the foreign vassal and his liege, factors like the foreign presence in your provinces, and maybe other things too will condition what's possible. A content barbarian leader who likes you will have less reason to rebel, especially if you allow his people enough resources and avoid any civil unrest (like a succession crisis). But it should also be risky if you are too generous and allow say Saxons to outnumber your own Britons. There will be a point where if settlement happens on a mass scale, the host ruler will have to deal with it.

But there should also be a snowball effect where having neighbors of a different cultural group and religious group will lead to the expansion of the Germanic kingdoms in Britain, whenever the opportunity arises. I've got a lot of ideas on how this should happen. Historically, an inroads was to have a Christian princess marry a strong pagan king. If the king did not convert, she could still have his heir baptized. This is how the Franks were eventually converted, and later the Kentish, too. I'd rather things not move too quickly, though, and of course I don't know how the new announced DLC will affect how paganism works in the game. In British history, kingdoms that became Christian tended to lose their edge and got owned by newly arrived pagans. Being a strong Christian king will mean all the difference of course! But it will be hard holding things together. Kingdoms tended to split apart and not act together when a serious threat arose.

 

[Slaxl]

Thanks for the feedback, neondt. I'm not too sure about some of the counties I'm creating in this part of the map, so later I could use some more detailed notes from anyone who wants to comment of course.

As for the names, it doesn't matter too much for me really. I can call them the South Saxons rather than Sussex if you think it's a better approach, at least for the earlier years. 'King Cerdic of the West Saxons' sounds a bit cooler than 'King Cerdic of Wessex' in fact. I'll play around with short_name titles and see what I can do.

Yeah, I'd agree with the "King Cerdic of the West Saxons", and "Ælle of the South Saxons" etc. Or perhaps Sūþseaxna, and Westseaxna, and so on? It fits in better with the period. You could use that new localisation type thing in the landed_titles so if it's conquered by natives the provinces and titles revert to early Brythonic or Romanesque names, but if the Germanic invaders control it then you get the "Sūþseaxna" names.

 

[RedRooster81]

Thanks, Slaxl.

Here is how the South and West Saxons look with your suggestion implemented:

EDIT: I've implemented a playable Isle of Wight (in Jutish, Wihtwara), ruled by a nephew of Cerdic of Wessex named 'Stuf'. Really, that was his name. :blink:

 

[Pode]

Saw this and thought of your mod, with religious conversion being a common term of peace treaties in this period.
Code for a religious conversion CB
I think making this available to zealots (and only zealots) of all religions might be a very interesting feature for this mod.

 

[RedRooster81]

Thanks, Pode. I'll add it to my to-do list.

 

[Pode]

Far be it from me to assign tasking. This just looked like a case of the least offensive type of feature request: the one that's half done already. I know better than to think any more than half done, nothing's ever as easy as it looks.

If I can be that annoying guy with the wishlist for someone else to work on: I'd like to see this limited to zealots against nonzealots, with coreligionists able to join the defender like holy wars, and the defender's allies getting zealous if they lose. Forced conversions shouldn't snowball

 

[neondt]

Far be it from me to assign tasking. This just looked like a case of the least offensive type of feature request: the one that's half done already. I know better than to think any more than half done, nothing's ever as easy as it looks.

If I can be that annoying guy with the wishlist for someone else to work on: I'd like to see this limited to zealots against nonzealots, with coreligionists able to join the defender like holy wars, and the defender's allies getting zealous if they lose. Forced conversions shouldn't snowball

Good idea. How about something like this?

Spoiler

conversion_war = {
	name = CB_NAME_RELIGIOUS_CONVERSION
	war_name = WAR_NAME_RELIGIOUS_CONVERSION
	sprite = 11
	truce_days = 3650
	
	is_permanent = yes
	is_holy_war = yes # basically makes same faith ai offer to join

	can_use = {
		ROOT = {
			NOT = { religion_group = FROM }
			trait = zealous
		}
		FROM = {
			NOT = { trait = zealous }
			in_revolt = no
			OR = { # either the target must be your liege, or your top liege must be of your religious group
				is_liege_or_above = ROOT
				ROOT = {
					top_liege = {
						religion_group = ROOT
					}
				}
			}
		}
	}

	is_valid = {
		FROM = {
			NOT = { religion_group = ROOT }
		}
	}

	on_success = {
		ROOT = {
			religion_authority = 0.1
			if = {
				limit = {
					FROM = {
						primary_title = {
							tier = BARON
						}
					}
				}
				ROOT = {
					piety = 10
					prestige = 50
				}
			}
			if = {
				limit = {
					FROM = {
						primary_title = {
							tier = COUNT
						}
					}
				}
				ROOT = {
					piety = 20
					prestige = 100
				}
			}
			if = {
				limit = {
					FROM = {
						primary_title = {
							tier = DUKE
						}
					}
				}
				ROOT = {
					piety = 30
					prestige = 150
				}
			}
			if = {
				limit = {
					FROM = {
						primary_title = {
							tier = KING
						}
					}
				}
				ROOT = {
					piety = 50
					prestige = 200
				}
			}
			if = {
				limit = {
					FROM = {
						primary_title = {
							tier = EMPEROR
						}
					}
				}
				ROOT = {
					piety = 70
					prestige = 400
				}
			}
		}

		FROM = {
			religion = ROOT
			piety = -100
		}
		any_defender = {
			limit = {
				NOT = { religion_group = ROOT }
			}
			add_trait = zealous
		}
	}

	on_fail = {
		religion_authority = -0.05
		ROOT = {
			piety = -50
			prestige = -100
		}
		any_defender = {
			participation_scaled_piety = 200
			participation_scaled_prestife = 100
		}
		FROM = {
			religion_authority = 0.025
		}
	}

	on_reverse_demand = {
		ROOT = {
			piety = -100
			prestige = -200
			transfer_scaled_wealth = {
				to = FROM
				value = 4.0
			}
		}
		FROM = {
			prestige = 200
			religion_authority = 0.025
		}
		any_defender = {
			participation_scaled_piety = 250
			participation_scaled_prestife = 150
		}
	}


	attacker_ai_victory_worth = {
		factor = -1 # always accept
	}
	
	attacker_ai_defeat_worth = {
		factor = 100
	}

	defender_ai_victory_worth = {
		factor = -1 # always accept
	}
	
	defender_ai_defeat_worth = {
		factor = 100
	}
}

edit: fixed

 

[Pode]

Good idea. How about something like this?

add_trait zealous instead of add_trat. That's about the level of my debugging abilities though, the rest looks good but I have to trust you on it.

 

[RedRooster81]

Thanks, guys.

I've got Danes on my brains (hey it rhymes ), thanks to History Channel's Vikings. Raiding, plunder, slaves, mead halls. Good source material.

 

[RedRooster81]

Meet Cynwidion.

 

[bassfreak]

Not sure if it's been mentioned in this thread before or not, but does anyone know how to get this working on a mac? It looks AWESOME, but I cannot figure out how to get it working. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Slaxl]

My thoughts on the progress of this mod

 

[RedRooster81]

Not sure if it's been mentioned in this thread before or not, but does anyone know how to get this working on a mac? It looks AWESOME, but I cannot figure out how to get it working. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

I have no idea. Sorry. I am making an English-language, Windows-compatible version of the mod. If anyone wants to figure out anything else, I'd be happy to support it.

 

[Joel M Bridge]

As you how I bugger about it since map almost done, I waiting on creation of decisions and events. !!