Magister Officiorum was the title of the administrative official who oversaw the agentes in rebus, who were the courier/spies of the late Roman empire.
[Mod]The Imperial Court Societies [HIP Compatible]
- Thread starter Auirus
- Start date
-
We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.
I've got Magister Officiorum as the Roman Empire's court regent.
I'm looking for an office/title for the Holy Roman Empire's "Spymaster" type of guy.
Still thanks
Side note, for something I've found recently.
Since you also use influence in your society, did you check event MNM.6666? It happen every time you clear a misson and add a successful modifier to the society with the on_quest_success on_action.
It pretty much double the influence your society receive if you also increased the influence with the events that complete the mission.
Since you also use influence in your society, did you check event MNM.6666? It happen every time you clear a misson and add a successful modifier to the society with the on_quest_success on_action.
It pretty much double the influence your society receive if you also increased the influence with the events that complete the mission.
Yea that threw a wrench into my original plans, but I've worked around it. Really wish they would restrict this sort of stuff to the vanilla societies.
I was planning something somewhat similar but much smaller in scope. More like a test mod limited to Byzantine, Ottoman/Seljuk/Persian and Chinese empires.
The society was more about the soft power exerted in large empires, with a focus on women and eunuch's.
Particularly events/missions/decisions being executed by either the top liege or a landed vassal and creating a diplomatic back channel via wives/concubines. Who may or may not advance the interests of their dynasty.
Please take any of my ideas, i can't work on it because i'm way too busy atm.
Some of my source material:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sultanate_of_Women
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lao_Ai
King, Kaiser, Tsar by Catrine Clay
The society was more about the soft power exerted in large empires, with a focus on women and eunuch's.
Particularly events/missions/decisions being executed by either the top liege or a landed vassal and creating a diplomatic back channel via wives/concubines. Who may or may not advance the interests of their dynasty.
- The society influence is much higher during regencies and with certain laws enabled.
- new wives/concubines would automatically be forced into the society.
Please take any of my ideas, i can't work on it because i'm way too busy atm.
Some of my source material:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sultanate_of_Women
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lao_Ai
King, Kaiser, Tsar by Catrine Clay
Thank you, I already have some similar stuff implemented.
During regencies the society's influence is higher, for eunuchs I just gave them more monthly society currency.
I originally wanted to increase the society's influence whenever an Imperial Office is assigned, so if you assinged a Seneschal influence would be increased by 10%. Sadly I couldn't make it work reliably enough, I can add society_modifiers but I can't remove them or check for them. So at times I ended up with a stacked 20% for the Seneschal, and at times there was a month or two when the society didn't have the 10% modifier, so I ended up scrapping that and just increased influence from other sources.
Also, Lao Ai's bio was...interesting... to put it mildly lol.
Vanilla societies no longer use Influence at all now! They even hide the tab. It is literally only used to add influence to non-vanilla society.
What have you done about it? On my side, I have created another an event on that on_action that created a -1% influence modifier on the society. So it negate the +1. I had no real way of naming that modifier so I named it "Balancing Paradox's Oversight" out of spite lol (I spent so much time tweaking my events trying to balance it until I found that 6666 event). I've tried to some use some variants like remove_society_modifier but I believe there is none to remove societies modifiers.
I had 4 different types of society mission modifiers, I just removed 1 which was basically the exact same as vanilla and reduced all the others by 1%.
Now I cannot for the life of me figure out why this faction isn't working correctly. I've tried many different combinations of triggers but it still won't behave. Barely anyone joins, I cant force people to join it via favors. If i switch to a vassal, create the faction then switch to another vassal, the faction gets auto disbanded. I really hope I'm just missing something here and its not actually broken.
If anyone is willing to take a look, here you go:
Code:
faction_ipc_takeover = {
type = liege_titles
exclusive = yes #Can only lead or be in one faction of this type
warning_level = 0.7
# Plotter scope
potential = {
prisoner = no
is_ruler = yes
independent = no
is_landed = yes
is_adult = yes
is_feudal = yes
mercenary = no
primary_title = { holy_order = no }
liege = {
tier = emperor
NOT = { any_demesne_title = { temporary = yes } }
}
NOT = { any_demesne_title = { temporary = yes } }
NOT = { has_character_modifier = faction_ipc_takeover_ultimatum_timer }
#these work
#is_in_society = yes
#has_character_flag = ipc_member
#these break
#is_imperial_court_member_trigger = yes
}
# Target scope
allow = {
#tier = emperor
higher_tier_than = king
is_primary_holder_title = yes
has_title_flag = imperial_court_active
holder_scope = {
NOT = {
any_war = {
war_title = ROOT
using_cb = ipc_faction_takeover_war
}
}
NOR = {
reverse_has_opinion_modifier = {
who = FROM
modifier = opinion_coerced_into_leaving_faction
}
reverse_has_opinion_modifier = {
who = FROM
modifier = opinion_replaced_bad_ruler
}
}
}
}
# Faction member scope (ROOT = joiner, FROM = target)
allow_join = {
ROOT = {
is_ruler = yes
independent = no
is_landed = yes
is_adult = yes
NOT = { trait = incapable }
prisoner = no
#NOT = { has_character_modifier = faction_ipc_takeover_ultimatum_timer }
#is_in_society = yes
#has_character_flag = ipc_member
#these break it
#society_member_of = imperial_court_byzantine
#is_imperial_court_member_trigger = yes
#society_influence >= 80
}
}
# AI creation weight
chance = {
#factor = 1
factor = 500
#modifier = {
# factor = 0
# FROM = { is_imperial_court_member_trigger = no }
#}
#modifier = {
# factor = 0
# FROM = { society_rank < 3 }
#}
modifier = {
factor = 4
FROM = { is_imperial_court_regent_trigger = yes }
}
modifier = {
factor = 2
FROM = {
has_unique_imperial_office_trigger = yes
is_imperial_court_regent_trigger = no
}
}
##misc
#modifier = {
# factor = 0.2
# FROM = { pacifist = yes }
#}
#modifier = {
# factor = 0
# FROM = {
# OR = {
# leads_faction = faction_claimant
# in_faction = faction_claimant
# }
# }
#}
#modifier = {
# factor = 0
# FROM = {
# OR = {
# prisoner = yes
# has_character_modifier = in_seclusion
# }
# }
#}
#modifier = {
# factor = 0
# holder_scope = { any_spouse = { character = FROM } }
#}
#modifier = {
# factor = 0
# current_heir = { character = FROM }
#}
#modifier = {
# factor = 0
# FROM = { preparing_invasion = yes }
#}
##opinions
#modifier = {
# factor = 0
# FROM = { opinion = { who = LIEGE value = 75 } }
#}
#modifier = {
# factor = 0
# FROM = {
# opinion = { who = LIEGE value = 50 }
# NOR = {
# trait = deceitful
# trait = ambitious
# trait = envious
# }
# }
#}
#modifier = {
# factor = 0.75
# FROM = {
# opinion = { who = LIEGE value = 25 }
# OR = {
# trait = kind
# trait = charitable
# trait = content
# trait = just
# trait = humble
# trait = honest
# }
# }
#}
modifier = {
factor = 1.5
NOT = { FROM = { opinion = { who = LIEGE value = 0 } } }
}
modifier = {
factor = 1.5
NOT = { FROM = { opinion = { who = LIEGE value = -25 } } }
}
modifier = {
factor = 2
NOT = { FROM = { opinion = { who = LIEGE value = -50 } } }
}
modifier = {
factor = 4
NOT = { FROM = { opinion = { who = LIEGE value = -75 } } }
}
##traits
#modifier = {
# factor = 0.01
# FROM = { trait = content }
#}
#modifier = {
# factor = 0.01
# FROM = { trait = imbecile }
#}
#modifier = {
# factor = 0.1
# FROM = { trait = inbred }
#}
#modifier = {
# factor = 0.1
# FROM = { trait = craven }
#}
#modifier = {
# factor = 0.2
# FROM = {
# OR = {
# trait = slow
# trait = dull
# }
# }
#}
#modifier = {
# factor = 0.5
# FROM = { trait = kind }
#}
#modifier = {
# factor = 0.5
# FROM = { trait = charitable }
#}
#modifier = {
# factor = 0.5
# FROM = { trait = honest }
#}
#modifier = {
# factor = 0.75
# FROM = { trait = humble }
#}
#modifier = {
# factor = 0.75
# FROM = { trait = just }
#}
modifier = {
factor = 1.5
FROM = { trait = proud }
}
modifier = {
factor = 1.5
FROM = { trait = brave }
}
modifier = {
factor = 1.5
FROM = { trait = arbitrary }
}
modifier = {
factor = 2
FROM = { trait = envious }
}
modifier = {
factor = 2
FROM = { trait = greedy }
}
modifier = {
factor = 2
FROM = { trait = impaler }
}
modifier = {
factor = 2
FROM = { trait = deceitful }
}
modifier = {
factor = 4
FROM = { trait = ambitious }
}
}
# AI membership weight: ROOT is the prospective member. FROM is the faction leader. FROMFROM is the target title or character.
membership = {
#factor = 1
factor = 5000
modifier = {
factor = 1000
has_opinion_modifier = { modifier = opinion_coerced_into_joining_faction who = FROM }
}
#modifier = {
# factor = 0
## is_imperial_court_member_trigger = no
#}
#modifier = {
# factor = 0
# OR = {
# leads_faction = faction_claimant
# in_faction = faction_claimant
# }
#}
#modifier = {
# factor = 0
# OR = {
# prisoner = yes
# trait = incapable
# is_adult = no
# is_landed = no
# preparing_invasion = yes
# }
#}
#modifier = {
# factor = 0
# FROMFROM = { current_heir = { character = ROOT } }
# NOT = { has_opinion_modifier = { modifier = opinion_coerced_into_joining_faction who = FROM } }
#}
#modifier = {
# factor = 0
# has_character_modifier = faction_ipc_takeover_ultimatum_timer
#}
#modifier = {
# factor = 0
# has_opinion_modifier = {
# who = LIEGE
# modifier = opinion_coerced_into_leaving_faction
# }
#}
#modifier = {
# factor = 0.2
# pacifist = yes
# NOT = { has_opinion_modifier = { modifier = opinion_coerced_into_joining_faction who = FROM } }
#}
#modifier = {
# factor = 0
# NOT = { opinion = { who = FROM value = -40 } }
# NOT = { has_opinion_modifier = { who = FROM modifier = opinion_coerced_into_joining_faction } }
#}
#modifier = {
# factor = 0
# opinion = { who = LIEGE value = -40 }
# NOT = { has_opinion_modifier = { modifier = opinion_coerced_into_joining_faction who = FROM } }
#}
##opinions
#modifier = {
# factor = 0
# opinion = { who = LIEGE value = 50 }
#}
#modifier = {
# factor = 0.5
# opinion = { who = LIEGE value = 25 }
#}
modifier = {
factor = 1.5
NOT = { opinion = { who = LIEGE value = -25 } }
}
modifier = {
factor = 2.0
NOT = { opinion = { who = LIEGE value = -50 } }
}
modifier = {
factor = 4.0
NOT = { opinion = { who = LIEGE value = -75 } }
}
##traits
#modifier = {
# factor = 0.01
# trait = content
# NOT = { has_opinion_modifier = { modifier = opinion_coerced_into_joining_faction who = FROM } }
#}
#modifier = {
# factor = 0.01
# trait = imbecile
# NOT = { has_opinion_modifier = { modifier = opinion_coerced_into_joining_faction who = FROM } }
#}
#modifier = {
# factor = 0.1
# trait = inbred
# NOT = { has_opinion_modifier = { modifier = opinion_coerced_into_joining_faction who = FROM } }
#}
#modifier = {
# factor = 0.1
# trait = craven
# NOT = { has_opinion_modifier = { modifier = opinion_coerced_into_joining_faction who = FROM } }
#}
#modifier = {
# factor = 0.2
# OR = {
# trait = slow
# trait = dull
# }
# NOT = { has_opinion_modifier = { modifier = opinion_coerced_into_joining_faction who = FROM } }
#}
#modifier = {
# factor = 0.5
# trait = kind
#}
#modifier = {
# factor = 0.5
# trait = charitable
#}
#modifier = {
# factor = 0.5
# trait = honest
#}
#modifier = {
# factor = 0.75
# trait = humble
#}
#modifier = {
# factor = 0.75
# trait = just
#}
modifier = {
factor = 1.5
trait = proud
}
modifier = {
factor = 1.5
trait = brave
}
modifier = {
factor = 1.5
trait = arbitrary
}
modifier = {
factor = 2.0
trait = envious
}
modifier = {
factor = 2.0
trait = greedy
}
modifier = {
factor = 2.0
trait = impaler
}
modifier = {
factor = 2.0
trait = deceitful
}
modifier = {
factor = 4.0
trait = ambitious
}
}
success = {
holder_scope = {
FROM = {
has_opinion_modifier = { who = PREV modifier = opinion_abdicated }
}
}
}
abort = {}
abort_effect = {}
effect = {
FROM = {
any_faction_backer = {
faction = faction_ipc_takeover
reverse_opinion = {
modifier = opinion_grateful
who = FROM
years = 5
}
}
}
}
}Well I haven't posted here in a while, I've had a very busy week. Getting sick was also quite annoying.
Despite that, progress has been good. Managed to rework some old stuff into a much better system, also redid all the things that give monthly society currency using triggered gains instead of just boring traits. Some of the missions I had planned are gonna be moved to updates instead of initial release, reasons being that I feel that they're a bit similar to already existing stuff and to be honest there's quite a bit of content in the mod already, the more I add the more I'll have to bugfix.
All that's left is a few more flavor events, about two decisions and a plot. Then I'll move on to testing for a bit before release.
Despite that, progress has been good. Managed to rework some old stuff into a much better system, also redid all the things that give monthly society currency using triggered gains instead of just boring traits. Some of the missions I had planned are gonna be moved to updates instead of initial release, reasons being that I feel that they're a bit similar to already existing stuff and to be honest there's quite a bit of content in the mod already, the more I add the more I'll have to bugfix.
All that's left is a few more flavor events, about two decisions and a plot. Then I'll move on to testing for a bit before release.
Sorry for the disappearance, mod has been finished for a while but due to various reasons I decided not to upload it. I mostly wouldn't have had the time to check on it's progress and bugfix.
So here it is, keep in mind that despite my tests there will be bugs. CK2 is a complex game and circumstances are always different when stuff happens. Have fun.
So here it is, keep in mind that despite my tests there will be bugs. CK2 is a complex game and circumstances are always different when stuff happens. Have fun
.
Interesting idea I am creating something like "Spider Web" society (I forgot the name I created). Purpose is very similiar except that mine is allowing for influence from abroad. Helping in for example intrigues. Maybe one day I will finish it
I am creating something like "Spider Web" society (I forgot the name I created). Purpose is very similiar except that mine is allowing for influence from abroad. Helping in for example intrigues. Maybe one day I will finish it
Last edited:
New update is out, had to redo some stuff in order to fix some things.
Please make sure you get the update, it fixes some very critical bugs.
Please make sure you get the update, it fixes some very critical bugs.
I really love this mod, you've clearly put a heck of a lot of time and effort into it.
I am an occasional student of the 'Abbasid era and I noticed you had no Arabic title for 'Master of Coin'. If I may, I could therefore suggest a few title alterations for the Imperial Court of the Arabian Empire society to reflect 'Abbasid-era Arabic imperial titles or status as a member of the khassa ('notables') of Baghdad, as these set the standard for high court life and were emulated by later Islamic rulers.
Feel free to take on board any suggestions or none of them. I simply enjoy my research, and thought you might make use of it.
Please bear with me as I pontificate.
I should note that CK2 cannot entirely reflect reality: the real 'Abbasid court was divided between 'people of the pen' and 'people of the sword'; regional governors and military officers would not have occupied the chief administrative offices of state.
Also, although women did occasionally hold significant individual power and played a major role in court life (the caliphal harem did not entirely follow the popular image of a gilded prison for pliant concubines), as medieval Islamic society did not permit women to hold public office I thought men and women's titles should also reflect the segregated historical reality in some way, even if in game terms the mechanics do not quite fit the actual role they would have played in court life.
Lastly, orthography: there are no capital letters in Arabic, but I have used English capitalisation rules and left out any transliteration diacritics (with the exception of the single apostrophe used to signify hamza and the letter 'ayn) for the sake of consistent CK2 style. Hopefully I've done it right.
Suggested rank titles for men:
Suggested rank titles for women:
Suggested titles for imperial offices:
(Edited to rejiggle some ideas.)
I am an occasional student of the 'Abbasid era and I noticed you had no Arabic title for 'Master of Coin'. If I may, I could therefore suggest a few title alterations for the Imperial Court of the Arabian Empire society to reflect 'Abbasid-era Arabic imperial titles or status as a member of the khassa ('notables') of Baghdad, as these set the standard for high court life and were emulated by later Islamic rulers.
Feel free to take on board any suggestions or none of them. I simply enjoy my research, and thought you might make use of it.
Please bear with me as I pontificate.
I should note that CK2 cannot entirely reflect reality: the real 'Abbasid court was divided between 'people of the pen' and 'people of the sword'; regional governors and military officers would not have occupied the chief administrative offices of state.
Also, although women did occasionally hold significant individual power and played a major role in court life (the caliphal harem did not entirely follow the popular image of a gilded prison for pliant concubines), as medieval Islamic society did not permit women to hold public office I thought men and women's titles should also reflect the segregated historical reality in some way, even if in game terms the mechanics do not quite fit the actual role they would have played in court life.
Lastly, orthography: there are no capital letters in Arabic, but I have used English capitalisation rules and left out any transliteration diacritics (with the exception of the single apostrophe used to signify hamza and the letter 'ayn) for the sake of consistent CK2 style. Hopefully I've done it right.
Suggested rank titles for men:
Rank 4: Amir al-mu'minin - 'commander of the faithful'
This one was a tough one. However, it feels inappropriate for Paradox to have used the term badshah (an Arabised version of the Persian padishah) as a supposed imperial title for Arabs, as no Arab ruler - especially in the early medieval period of Arab hegemony - would ever have used the title for themselves. Amir al-mu'minin feels better. This was initially used exclusively by caliphs (or claimants to the title) but gained some currency for other rulers in the West such as the Rostemids, Aghlabids, Zirids, Ḥammadids, Umayyads, and various Andalusian rulers after the collapse of 'Abbasid hegemony, as well as eastern rulers after the Sack of Baghdad. It seems an appropriate term for the head honcho of the society whilst not being absolutely clear on whether his 'imperial' title is Caliph or Sultan.
Rank 3: Sahib al-diwan - 'master of [a] diwan'
In real life, this was a high level bureaucrat in the caliphal court (essentially the immediate subordinate of a wazir) who headed up one of the main administrative units, a diwan (e.g. the diwan for the payment of the army, the diwan al-jaysh). I didn't want to suggest any title that might imply independent temporal governorship like wali or hakim, because this would overlap with CK2 iqta' government titles. I also felt that a multiplicity of viziers does not reflect the unitary nature of that title during its earlier period of usage, when it was somewhat cognate with 'prime minister'. As it is, this seems appropriate for someone who might hold a high office of state.
Rank 2: Qa'id - 'commander'/'leader'/a term for a senior military officer
Even with the actual divide in military/administrative roles in the 'Abbasid court, it seems appropriate for the dynastic power politics of CK2 and the power-building role within the society, especially as in 'Abbasid society military power was often hereditary. The term na'ib ('deputy') didn't enjoy much currency in the earlier Islamic courts as an administrative post, and in latter Persianate ones - such as the Delhi Sultanate - it was a high administrative post, rather than a low or mid-level one. A sahib al-majlis was actually the subordinate administrator to a sahib al-diwan (which I've put in rank 3), but I didn't think this was a good choice as people might get confused with which sahib is which!
Rank 1 (if you feel like changing it from Imperial Courtier): Mawla
Strictly speaking this isn't an imperial title at all but indicates a power relationship and means both 'client' and 'patron' in various contexts. This seems appropriate for the society role - a courtier of unclear individual significance, distinction or origin but looking to climb socially.
This one was a tough one. However, it feels inappropriate for Paradox to have used the term badshah (an Arabised version of the Persian padishah) as a supposed imperial title for Arabs, as no Arab ruler - especially in the early medieval period of Arab hegemony - would ever have used the title for themselves. Amir al-mu'minin feels better. This was initially used exclusively by caliphs (or claimants to the title) but gained some currency for other rulers in the West such as the Rostemids, Aghlabids, Zirids, Ḥammadids, Umayyads, and various Andalusian rulers after the collapse of 'Abbasid hegemony, as well as eastern rulers after the Sack of Baghdad. It seems an appropriate term for the head honcho of the society whilst not being absolutely clear on whether his 'imperial' title is Caliph or Sultan.
Rank 3: Sahib al-diwan - 'master of [a] diwan'
In real life, this was a high level bureaucrat in the caliphal court (essentially the immediate subordinate of a wazir) who headed up one of the main administrative units, a diwan (e.g. the diwan for the payment of the army, the diwan al-jaysh). I didn't want to suggest any title that might imply independent temporal governorship like wali or hakim, because this would overlap with CK2 iqta' government titles. I also felt that a multiplicity of viziers does not reflect the unitary nature of that title during its earlier period of usage, when it was somewhat cognate with 'prime minister'. As it is, this seems appropriate for someone who might hold a high office of state.
Rank 2: Qa'id - 'commander'/'leader'/a term for a senior military officer
Even with the actual divide in military/administrative roles in the 'Abbasid court, it seems appropriate for the dynastic power politics of CK2 and the power-building role within the society, especially as in 'Abbasid society military power was often hereditary. The term na'ib ('deputy') didn't enjoy much currency in the earlier Islamic courts as an administrative post, and in latter Persianate ones - such as the Delhi Sultanate - it was a high administrative post, rather than a low or mid-level one. A sahib al-majlis was actually the subordinate administrator to a sahib al-diwan (which I've put in rank 3), but I didn't think this was a good choice as people might get confused with which sahib is which!
Rank 1 (if you feel like changing it from Imperial Courtier): Mawla
Strictly speaking this isn't an imperial title at all but indicates a power relationship and means both 'client' and 'patron' in various contexts. This seems appropriate for the society role - a courtier of unclear individual significance, distinction or origin but looking to climb socially.
Suggested rank titles for women:
Rank 4: Sayyida
This is a term that was used for Caliph al-Muqtadir's mother (the most powerful woman in the harem and sometimes even the power behind the throne was usually the Queen Mother), roughly translating as 'the lady'. It is sufficiently vague to be roughly appropriate for any woman who might hold the highest society post. I would resist using any term that implies that the title holder is a wife or consort, simply because a medieval Muslim ruler rarely ever had one wife - and for a while 'Abbasid caliphs did not marry at all. Sahiba - roughly translated as 'mistress' - could be an alternative term, but I feel it might create confusion when set alongside the rank 3 sahib al-diwan title.
Rank 3: Qahramana
Essentially a stewardess administrating the harem with a comparatively significant degree of personal power and independence. Game-wise, it seems a suitable powerful female 'equivalent' to the sahib al-diwan.
Rank 2: Mukhaddara
Not a court title but what I could think of as appropriate for a moderately influential woman in the court without a specific particular status. A mukhaddara was essentially a woman confined to her home / not permitted to appear in public (and on the rare occasions when this was necessary, never without a veil), an existence only possible for women of sufficiently high status and respectability. This would I think be an appropriate word for all women of a palace harem who could not leave the compound, whether or not they were a concubine or otherwise.
Rank 1: Qayna
Again, not a court title but a word that refers to the class of female slave entertainers in Islamic courts. The qiyan had a particularly prominent role in Arabic court history and as they were expected to be witty and well educated in addition to being dancers, singers and poets some unsurprisingly ended up as consorts and mothers of caliphs and powerful women in their own right. Although not a rank in any sense of the word, it felt characterful and somewhat appropriate for a role as a social climber in the harem.
This is a term that was used for Caliph al-Muqtadir's mother (the most powerful woman in the harem and sometimes even the power behind the throne was usually the Queen Mother), roughly translating as 'the lady'. It is sufficiently vague to be roughly appropriate for any woman who might hold the highest society post. I would resist using any term that implies that the title holder is a wife or consort, simply because a medieval Muslim ruler rarely ever had one wife - and for a while 'Abbasid caliphs did not marry at all. Sahiba - roughly translated as 'mistress' - could be an alternative term, but I feel it might create confusion when set alongside the rank 3 sahib al-diwan title.
Rank 3: Qahramana
Essentially a stewardess administrating the harem with a comparatively significant degree of personal power and independence. Game-wise, it seems a suitable powerful female 'equivalent' to the sahib al-diwan.
Rank 2: Mukhaddara
Not a court title but what I could think of as appropriate for a moderately influential woman in the court without a specific particular status. A mukhaddara was essentially a woman confined to her home / not permitted to appear in public (and on the rare occasions when this was necessary, never without a veil), an existence only possible for women of sufficiently high status and respectability. This would I think be an appropriate word for all women of a palace harem who could not leave the compound, whether or not they were a concubine or otherwise.
Rank 1: Qayna
Again, not a court title but a word that refers to the class of female slave entertainers in Islamic courts. The qiyan had a particularly prominent role in Arabic court history and as they were expected to be witty and well educated in addition to being dancers, singers and poets some unsurprisingly ended up as consorts and mothers of caliphs and powerful women in their own right. Although not a rank in any sense of the word, it felt characterful and somewhat appropriate for a role as a social climber in the harem.
Suggested titles for imperial offices:
Imperial Regent: ʿAmid al-Dawla - 'supporter of the Dynasty' (capitalised because 'the Dynasty' in this case is referring to the 'Abbasids). This was actually an honorific for Husayn ibn al-Qasim, a vizier under the caliph al-Muqtadir, but various such titles with the al-Dawla compund were thereafter given to men who wielded the actual power in court, most notably the scions of the Buyid dynasty, and was later a title for a host of other powerful men.
Imperial Seneschal: Hajib - chamberlain. Always a very important official, although with a diverse range of roles through the centuries of the term's usage after the 'Abbasid collapse.
Imperial Marshal: Amir al-umara - 'emir of emirs'. This seems apt for the senior military official of the empire, and had a rather pointed history in the last stages of 'Abbasid imperial authority...
Imperial Lawmaker: Wazir - 'As you're using the Greek 'Logothetes' rather than Anglicised 'Logothete', I would suggest you do the same thing here and use the Arabic word wazir instead of vizier. This seems an appropriate role for the leader's 'prime minister'.
Imperial Spymaster: Sahib al-shurta - chief of police. Appropriate for a chief investigator.
Imperial Seneschal: Hajib - chamberlain. Always a very important official, although with a diverse range of roles through the centuries of the term's usage after the 'Abbasid collapse.
Imperial Marshal: Amir al-umara - 'emir of emirs'. This seems apt for the senior military official of the empire, and had a rather pointed history in the last stages of 'Abbasid imperial authority...
Imperial Lawmaker: Wazir - 'As you're using the Greek 'Logothetes' rather than Anglicised 'Logothete', I would suggest you do the same thing here and use the Arabic word wazir instead of vizier. This seems an appropriate role for the leader's 'prime minister'.
Imperial Spymaster: Sahib al-shurta - chief of police. Appropriate for a chief investigator.
(Edited to rejiggle some ideas.)
Last edited:
This was a rather nice surprise to read, thank you
.Out of all the mods I've made, this one was the most fun to work on. I've always gave up on games after reaching an empire rank simply because it gets too easy. It's easy to get all your vassals to love you, and most of the AI rulers near you are pathetically weak.
Researching names for all the ranks and offices is what took most of my planning time, and trying to find stuff that doesn't conflict with vanilla's councillors and honorary titles was a headache lol.
1. Rank 4 was initially supposed to be dynamically assigned according to the emperor's actual title. So it would be "Padishah" for a Turkic emperor, "Shahanshah" for Iranians, and "Badshah" for Arabians. Sadly that wasn't possible as it would show up correctly in only 50% of the places, so I had to put in a static name. I'd prefer to keep it as is since that's how it is for all the other societies. I do agree that "Badshah" doesn't really fit, but well paradox chose that so I have to stick with it lol.
2. This took me a while to think of a response...
Viziers were not a common title yes, but the reason I chose it is due to the Muslim Chancellor being named "Grand Vizier", which implies that there are multiple Viziers.
I'm still on the fence for this one though.
3. Na'ib is indeed from a point outside of CK2's timeframe, but I simply didn't find any good alternatives. Qa'id sadly is too militaristic and is pretty much a "commander" which conflicts with the vanilla commander titles.
4. I see no problems with this, sure. Imperial Courtier was just to make my life easier at the time, otherwise I would have needed to find 7 more names and juggle around the ones I already had.
1. Same as above, I'd prefer that it's the same as the Empire title for Arabians.
2. This is much better than what I currently have, thanks.
3. I'm not keen on this one. Since most Rank 2 members can be unlanded, or wives of landed males. They're not really very high up in status.
4. I'm not too sure on this one. Qiyans initially are quite low in social rank, and like above they could be wives of landed dukes and such, it would be unfitting for those.
1. I see no problems with this. Wali-Badshah was too long and a bit confusing tbh. Since you could have Wali-s in other places like merchant republics.
2. Sounds good to me.
3. Also a great one.
4. I would have to use Vizier, since having both a "Grand Vizier" and "Wazir" would be inconsistent. The Lawkeeper office isn't really meant to be a prime minister, It's role should become clearer when I finish adding all the missions I planned. So for now I'll keep it as is.
5. I agree, but I feel like its not "prestigious" enough. I'll have to think on this one.
Again thank you for taking the time to write all this. It's been a tremendous help
.
My pleasure! And yes, good points all.
You're right about qa'id - I had previously considered something like katib, which means 'scribe' or 'clerk' (from the k-t-b root, like kitab - book - and maktab - office) but in this context could well be served by the translation 'civil servant' (some kuttab would have been advisors to senior officials). However, I felt this rather commonplace word might be a little boring.
How about qadi al-qudat ('qadi of qadis') for the lawmaker role? Abu Yusuf, the first 'qadi al-qudat' for Harun al-Rashid, was given power to appoint subordinates across the empire. The role essentially became like that of chief justice of the supreme court. Also, an appropriate feminine word for 'client' is mawlat.
You're right about qa'id - I had previously considered something like katib, which means 'scribe' or 'clerk' (from the k-t-b root, like kitab - book - and maktab - office) but in this context could well be served by the translation 'civil servant' (some kuttab would have been advisors to senior officials). However, I felt this rather commonplace word might be a little boring.
How about qadi al-qudat ('qadi of qadis') for the lawmaker role? Abu Yusuf, the first 'qadi al-qudat' for Harun al-Rashid, was given power to appoint subordinates across the empire. The role essentially became like that of chief justice of the supreme court. Also, an appropriate feminine word for 'client' is mawlat.
Thank you very much for your interesting mod. It's a minor detail, but if possible I would suggest to change the background picture of the Byzantine society, the pointed arch portal isn't very Byzantine-like. As replacement I would suggest plain columns (flush, without the flutes/indentations, unlike the ones of the Roman society) with Corinthian capitals topped by an arc, something vaguely reminiscent of Theodoric's palace in the famous mosaic of Sant'Apollinare Nuovo.
You are quite welcome
.That would be a bit hard to do, as the person that does the artwork is quite busy and if I attempted that it would be a disaster. Still thank you for the suggestion
New update is out as well.
HIP is updated for 3.0! Pl0x make for compatibilityYou are quite welcome
That would be a bit hard to do, as the person that does the artwork is quite busy and if I attempted that it would be a disaster. Still thank you for the suggestion
New update is out as well.
I already have compatibility stuff for previous versions of HIP. I'll just need to recheck and add some extra things to make it fully compatible. That's not going to be anytime soon unfortunately as I'm quite busy these days.
(I copy pasted this from the Steam page, sorry for laziness
)
Ah, yeah- I know what you mean. Volunteer work is keeping me from working on 3.0 atm :'(I already have compatibility stuff for previous versions of HIP. I'll just need to recheck and add some extra things to make it fully compatible. That's not going to be anytime soon unfortunately as I'm quite busy these days.
(I copy pasted this from the Steam page, sorry for laziness