[MOD] The Final Frontier

[primem0ver]

TWO IMPORTANT FYI's:

1) Due to an odd decision about script order made by Paradox, the terraforming code for planets that creates the second step (biosphere terraforming) necessary for slowly terraforming the biosphere doesn't work in the current edition. It was a simple fix but as a result, you will not experience the need to "build" a biosphere on fringe, cold greenhouse, barren, toxic, iced ocean, and dwarf planets after the initial terraforming is complete. This is the feature I was asking about earlier with greenhouse planets. Would you like greenhouse planets (ocean, terran, to have this feature as well? The advantage is that it will cost significanlty less to do the initial terraforming. However, the disadvantage is that you will need to "terraform" the surface afterward by clearing "old environment" tile blockers just like the worlds above.

2) The next release will be the first beta release and will be available on Steam. The major issues are dealt with except for adding in the monster code. Although I said I was not going to focus on changing the habitability model and add new kinds of planets until after everything else is done, I have decided to amend that just slightly. The concept of the "ocean world" really bugs me. So I am going to separate sentient ocean life from land life and add three types of ocean worlds, renaming the current concept of "ocean" world to archipelago. Sea based species will be able to inhabit six of the nine original habitable worlds (exceptions are tundra, desert, and arid) and the following habitable world types from the habitability system above:the new "ocean" world, marine, and iced ocean.

I will also be altering the frequency of toxic and cold barren worlds a bit and lowering the appearance of habitable worlds slightly so that people get a better feel for what things will be like when the new habitability model is done. (I think that habitable worlds are a bit too commonplace currently).

 

[terrycloth]

1) I think I'd like to try it, yeah.

The current terraforming was about right in the number of planets you could terraform (not every single thing -- systems with lots of good planets to terraform were still fairly rare -- but planets opened up in stages which is what I've always been asking for) but the resourcing model was unsatisfying. It was really hard to get enough storage until you unlocked the magical technology with the starbase module and planet depot that made it trivial, but then once you filled that up it never actually got used so you could terraform forever. Would the biosphere terraforming help with that?

Does the current habitability slider do anything with this mod?

 

[primem0ver]

...but the resourcing model was unsatisfying. It was really hard to get enough storage until you unlocked the magical technology with the starbase module and planet depot that made it trivial...

Did you download the changes to the tech levels? I didn't have any issues once I changed where in the tech tree it occurs. I thought it fit rather nicely.

...but then once you filled that up it never actually got used so you could terraform forever.

Yes. This is an annoying issue that I saw as well. I have no idea why it occurs. I think it is a bug in the vanilla code. I will have to look into reporting this issue and seeing if there is a work-around for now.

Would the biosphere terraforming help with that?

I am testing this at the moment.

Does the current habitability slider do anything with this mod?

No. Not currently. I don't know if this is possible because of the necessity of placing the planets by hand. I will look into seeing if there is a way to do this.[/QUOTE]

What do you think of the habitable planet distribution? Do you think it is too high?

 

[terrycloth]

Did you download the changes to the tech levels? I didn't have any issues once I changed where in the tech tree it occurs. I thought it fit rather nicely.

Yes. This is an annoying issue that I saw as well. I have no idea why it occurs. I think it is a bug in the vanilla code. I will have to look into reporting this issue and seeing if there is a work-around for now.





What do you think of the habitable planet distribution? Do you think it is too high?

I think that i like to vary the slider sometimes? There's plusses and minuses either way. It didn't seem like a dramatically different spread than you'd usually see, except that you could colonize almost everything right from the start.

This mod has a lot of space-based resources compared to vanilla, so to keep the same balance you'd want lots of habitable planets. But at the same time you *can* get by with fewer, for the same reason.

 

[primem0ver]

Sorry terrycloth, I had a glitch in my post above. I fixed it so that it reads properly.

 

[terrycloth]

I'm pretty sure I had the changes to tech levels, and it showed up 'early enough'.The thing was that between it and the seedlife modules it basically removed resources as a factor, where before that it was almost impossible (I think I ended up building 4 or 5 silos total and never using the last two).

After that I only had to care about the resources for the seedlife power complexes (which were super-annoying when they got put in sectors) and the rest were just trash.

Also, you need to turn the Sector AI priority on seedlife farms WAY DOWN. They built almost nothing else, probably because strategic resources are highly valued? Then they never upgraded them to the seedlife power complexes because they couldn't afford the upkeep.

 

[primem0ver]

I'm pretty sure I had the changes to tech levels, and it showed up 'early enough'.The thing was that between it and the seedlife modules it basically removed resources as a factor, where before that it was almost impossible (I think I ended up building 4 or 5 silos total and never using the last two).

After that I only had to care about the resources for the seedlife power complexes (which were super-annoying when they got put in sectors) and the rest were just trash.

Also, you need to turn the Sector AI priority on seedlife farms WAY DOWN. They built almost nothing else, probably because strategic resources are highly valued? Then they never upgraded them to the seedlife power complexes because they couldn't afford the upkeep.

That is helpful information. I had already noticed issues with upgrades though I hadn't noticed it with sectors as I use a core planet mod. I will turn down the priority. I am also going to make it so seedlife farms do not upgrade to seedlife power stations.

I agree seedlife facilities become useless right now as the materials do not get used properly by the game. However that is not the fault of my mod and it is not the way it is supposed to work. I have reported this in the bug forum. Hopefully they will fix it. I believe the issue only applies to terraforming as my seedlife was no longer capped once I started using it for removing tile blockers (I ran an effect from the console to add the appropriate tile blockers to see how it worked and to experience the mod the way it is supposed to be. My seedlife was no longer capped soon after spending the resource to remove the tiles).

 

[primem0ver]

During my playing of Stellaris over the weekend I finally came across the "lore" behind the void clouds. I had invented my own lore that I was going to add to the mod. What do people think of original lore surrounding the void clouds? Would it be a good or bad idea to change the lore? I think my lore is far more interesting. As is the lore doesn't explain why the void clouds attack (indeed it makes very little sense if they are the "stewards" of the galaxy/universe), or why they hang out around black holes.

 

[terrycloth]

I haven't ever heard of the original lore about void clouds. I thought they were just clouds that were in the void and hated all life.

 

[primem0ver]

Thats what I thought too because that is the way they behave. However that is not what the quest chain reveals. (It has two parts). In my opinion the story it reveals is inconsistent with their behavior. My story/theory is much more interesting, consistent with their behavior, reveals a sinister plot at foot (which I am going to make real in an optional addon), AND has some loosely based parallels to Jack McDevitt "Academy" series that starts with the novel "The Engines of God."

 

[primem0ver]

Sometime in the next week and a half I hope to release the first Beta version that I mentioned earlier. As it turnes out, making "ocean" natives is a lot more difficult than I anticipated because of the need to make the "cities" that show in the interface appear like they are under water. So if people want these cities to look like real underwater cities, then that will take some doing. So as it stands, unless you guys don't mind the "above water" cities for "under-water" races, I think I will postpone that for a later release (if it is even possible). So here is what I am planning to add/change for the Beta:

1. Re-introduce monsters with the new "start small, defend, and spread" mechanic. This means that they will start small as they did in the alpha. However, they will periodically reproduce, increasing their defensive numbers in their home systems AND quickly spreading to other star systems.
   
2. Reduce the "default" number of habitable worlds to about 2/3 -3./4 the current number.
   
3. Make it so that the habitability slider has an effect on the number of habitable worlds.
4. Make sure that the second stage of "biosphere" terraforming actually works correctly.
   
5. Make it so that terraforming greenhouse worlds also uses the second stage mechanism.
6. Get moons out of the rings (I think this was already implemented but may not have worked if were playing a previous galacy).
7. Separate the seedlife farm buildings from the power seedlife farms so that they are independent of each other.
8. Reduce some of the terraforming costs a bit (mainly water and dessicant).
9. Reduce the AI preference of some of the buildings I have added so they aren't built to much.
10. If there is time, I will also add a quest chain related to the monsters and their new "features" and goals.
    
11. Possibly some other minor things.

Let me know if there is anything else you would like to see.

 

[Ufnal]

One minor thing: bio-power manufactory's seedlife storage doesn't seem to work (at least not without the HQ building).

 

[primem0ver]

One minor thing: bio-power manufactory's seedlife storage doesn't seem to work (at least not without the HQ building).

That is correct. I discovered that station modules cannot raise the cap on storage values.

 

[primem0ver]

Update on the Beta:

In testing the changes I made to make the mod compatible with the habitable planets slider, I found that the slider's functionality was meager at best (it had very little noticeable affect). I am fairly certain the that reason for this is because of the limited number of planet types that can be found in the habitable zone as the mod currently stands which means there is very little competition. In thinking about a way to overcome this issue I realized that there is a large gap of planets I didn't think to include previously.

The bad news first: My adding more planet types is going to postpone the beta release up to a week (so at the latest it should be out during the second weekend of August).

The good news: There will be 7 new planet types (variations of basic types which already exist in my mod), five of which will compete with habitable planets; adding more variety which should also give the slider a much bigger impact roughly equivalent to the variation of the vanilla game. I have already added functionality to my generator software which exports the terraforming links automatically. So adding new terraformable planet types no longer takes a large amount of time.

 

[primem0ver]

Sorry guys. Running a bit behind schedule. The beta is essentially done. Just dealing with bugs. Should be done this week. Probably sooner rather than later. I have two significant issues I need to resolve first though. The good news is that the habitaiblity slider seems to be having a significant effect now. The bad news is that it seems to have the opposite effect of what is expected (more = less; less = more). I am not quite sure why... LOL. But that is the biggest thing I need to fix.

 

[primem0ver]

The Beta Version is now live!

 

[Daedwartin]

BTW, you clearly actually need to work on the system intializers.

Because this will be more than a few player's first impression of the mod.

This does not inspire confidence in a mod. If one of the very first things people see is this, it can easily turn away several people before they even start playing in fear you screwed up other things. I mean, Pluto isn't named correctly. It suggests to some people you are too lazy to double check even something as simple as what could be a person's first impression of the entire mod.

Because, as I stated, if you failed to ensure the first impression doesn't look sloppy....what else did you screw up?

Also, you basically need to actually redo the starting system initializers because the literal only choice I can see is random. I have no idea at all which systems I start with.

Also, I like to have my species exist in a galaxy with only the one supermassive black hole at the center, not the 12 in the arms.

 

[primem0ver]

BTW, you clearly actually need to work on the system intializers.
This does not inspire confidence in a mod. If one of the very first things people see is this, it can easily turn away several people before they even start playing in fear you screwed up other things. I mean, Pluto isn't named correctly. It suggests to some people you are too lazy to double check even something as simple as what could be a person's first impression of the entire mod.

I appreciate your feedback. This has been fixed by removing the NAME_ prefix in front of all prescripted entries temporarily (since my game is not currently translated, that won't matter). I will update the necessary localisation entries and go back to the old version of those files when I get the chance.

I was not aware that that these referred to localization entries until you posted this as I thought it was just a convention that the executable used for formatting (such as some of the odd characters that appear in the localization files). I have never actually seen the Sol system in any game I have played.

Also, you basically need to actually redo the starting system initializers because the literal only choice I can see is random. I have no idea at all which systems I start with.

I am not certain what you are talking about here. I am not familiar with a feature for picking your starting system unless you pick a prescripted empire.

Also, I like to have my species exist in a galaxy with only the one supermassive black hole at the center, not the 12 in the arms.

This is impossible to do. As far as I am aware I am not able to place one in the center of a galaxy as one cannot hand place stars at specific coordinates. If there is a way to do this, I would love to know as I was hoping to do as you have suggested. As for the number, perhaps I should call them large black holes. Both O and B class stars are capable of producing black holes. There will be a difference in size. "Supermassive" black holes as I am using them in this game are the result of O star supernovae. Would calling them "large" suffice?

 

[Daedwartin]

This is impossible to do. As far as I am aware I am not able to place one in the center of a galaxy as one cannot hand place stars at specific coordinates. If there is a way to do this, I would love to know as I was hoping to do as you have suggested. As for the number, perhaps I should call them large black holes. Both O and B class stars are capable of producing black holes. There will be a difference in size. "Supermassive" black holes as I am using them in this game are the result of O star supernovae. Would calling them "large" suffice?

What is the general mass range your thinking of?

There are three kinds(technically 4) of Black Hole. Solar Mass Black Holes are around a couple solar masses to 100 solar masses. Largest known is 85.3 Solar Masses. Intermediate are basicaly around a 100 to 100 million solar masses. And everything bigger than that is considered a Supermassive Black Hole. This is the issue BTW with Supermassive Blackholes: They are so massive that the galaxy will be centered around one if it is present. The 4th kind that technically exists is a mirco-black hole. Which are basically planet masses and smaller. These have never been even potentially observed and are predicted to only have existed at some point because the Big bang once had matter dense enough to maybe form black holes spontaneously for a extremely short period of time.

Also, it is actually possible to spawn stars in the center area. Several mods actually do so. How, I do not know.

I am not certain what you are talking about here. I am not familiar with a feature for picking your starting system unless you pick a prescripted empire.

You know how you can choose to start in Sol when making your empire unmodded?

You can't do that at all. You set things up so no starting system initializers exist. Meaning no one can actually choose to start at Sol.

 

[primem0ver]

What is the general mass range your thinking of?

Intermediate black holes fit the range I am talking about. That sounds like a tacky name though.

Also, it is actually possible to spawn stars in the center area. Several mods actually do so. How, I do not know.

Yes. I am aware of this. It is a setting in the map files (which this mod doesn't currently deal with). However, there is no way I am aware of to place a star at a specific coordinate in the galaxy (in the exact center for example). There also is no way to select a "center" star like there is a rim star.

You know how you can choose to start in Sol when making your empire unmodded?

You can't do that at all. You set things up so no starting system initializers exist. Meaning no one can actually choose to start at Sol.

Starting empire initializers do exist but I am not aware of a setting to make a specific system a "starting system". I will look into this. It should be an easy fix once I figure out how to do this. I was not aware of this feature as I don't pick a starting system with my starting races.