[MOD] SWMH 2.0 Map, de jure and general history mod. For a superior CK2 experience

[Polskers]

this mod is great,but there s a little error in the Charpatian region.

the counties in Transilvania should be of vlach culture and orthodox religion,not magyar and catholic ..

No offence meant to you, friend, but in the Middle Ages, the region was a mixture of Magyar Catholics & Vlach Orthodox settlers. There were even Danube Swabians who migrated later on to the region in the Renaissance (although I am sure you know this as well! ) As Aasmul is aiming for a great, historically accurate mod, I'm sure population statistics are of course taken into consideration for the time periods in question!

 

[unmerged(596352)]

yes but the vlachs were the majority in the region,not the magyars

 

[Polskers]

yes but the vlachs were the most people in the region,not the magyars

Situations like this make me wish it were possible to mod pops into CK2, much like Victoria II has it laid out with different provincial ethnicities.

 

[unmerged(596352)]

indeed,but it seems wrong to me to represent in the game a minority from the region,as the leading culture...

 

[theKing1988]

yes but the vlachs were the majority in the region,not the magyars

During the entire CK2 timeline, that is debateable. But this shouldn't turn into a nationalistic p****** contest, if the paradox devs and Aasmul have found the current setup to be the more historically correct, then that is how things are going to be and frankly i don't see any historical flaws with the setup, in 1066 the Vlach presence in Transylvania was certainly a minority one, every reliable source we have tells us exactly that.

 

[unmerged(596352)]

could you please give a link to these documents?

and it was just a suggestion,not anything else

 

[theKing1988]

could you please give a link to these documents?

and it was just a suggestion,not anything else

I just read up on what i have found on the subject and it would seem like that the situation is VERY murky in 1066 and to actually name a majority in the region would be difficult from a historians standpoint because you don't really have the documents to back it up, so i apologize my earlier outburst.

But as i said, ultimately Aasmul is going to make the call.

 

[Aasmul]

Well, guessing is normally not one of my strengths


By the way, i have a few more suggestions:
nobletitles.csv
city_duke_german: Burggraf
city_king_german: Burggraf
city_emperor_german: Burggraf

All these could replaced with "Oberbürgermeister" (definitely for the city_duke_german, it's a rough translation of Lord Mayor) or "Drost" or "Syndikus" (the historical Hansa had one) or "Ratsherr" or "Ältermann" (Eldermann, Oldermann)

Thanks, added.

Not sure, man. We could always browse through the files and see what needs to be looked at. I'm still having that 1337 crash with German dynasties. Maybe you can see if you can replicate that? Start up a game as the Holy Roman Emperor/von Wittelsbach dynasty in 1337 & then hit "resign" & see if the game crashes for you.

I have found a couple of rogue barronies, not shure if its the reason, but they are fixed for the next version.

How much work would it take to merge this with Umbra Spherae(and perhaps TN's Vinland).

As good as impossible, due to size AND difference. Even making a new mod with that range is an unlikely mod.

Yep its basicly doing a completely new map.

I'm so looking forward to the new version gets released so i know i'm repeating myself here, but is there any chance that we could get some sneaks.

Im hoping I can get Axl to take some today, its been a bit hard getting hold of him lately.

this mod is great,but there s a little error in the Charpatian region.

the counties in Transilvania should be of vlach culture and orthodox religion,not magyar and catholic ..

indeed,but it seems wrong to me to represent in the game a minority from the region,as the leading culture...

I just read up on what i have found on the subject and it would seem like that the situation is VERY murky in 1066 and to actually name a majority in the region would be difficult from a historians standpoint because you don't really have the documents to back it up, so i apologize my earlier outburst.

But as i said, ultimately Aasmul is going to make the call.

Im in agreement with Polskers and theking on this one, the area was simply a giant meltingpot, and I doubt that vlach would have been the (big)majority.
My personal guess would be 1/4 of the population being Magyar and a similar amount of Vlach(maybe a tad higher), and the rest would have been a big mix of the sub/meltingpot cultures like the Szekely and then a few Tatars and Swabians thrown into the mix.

btw speaking of Magyar, I have been thinking of moving the Hungarians into the southslavic group. From a cultural, lingustic and ethnic standpoint its of course not accurate but it would allow for a much more RL function of the ingame mechanics. It would give a reduced opinion penalty to the Croatians, Bosnians, Serbs and Vlach, so having a mix of the populations wouldn't be as distabilising and you ought to see more southslavic nobles staying in power under Hungarian dominion.

 

[unmerged(596352)]

ok mate it s you r choice,but there are several documents ,written even by the magyars who say that in Transilvania,majority were the vlacs,but it s your mod do as you please

 

[tsf4]

Just a small issue, but the "Poachers" event seems bugged. Whenever I select the option of having my councilmen go and find them, I get the message that they caught the poachers three times. Not sure what would make it do this, so I think its a bug.

 

[Bad_Haggis]

My understanding of culture was that it was the culture of the nobility in that area, not the common peasants.

 

[Aasmul]

ok mate it s you r choice,but there are several documents ,written even by the magyars who say that in Transilvania,majority were the vlacs,but it s your mod do as you please

What provinces in the area should be Vlach? if there is places that were known to be Vlach im fine with changeing them, what im not for is making the whole place Vlach. If the modernday concentration of Szekely could be used as the areas were Vlach were in minority then you would have the south and the north being vlach with the central being magyar. What makes these things so tricky is that the area like a lot of other places in the hungarian kingdom wasn't very populated for the early part of the game, and didn't really become so until the Swabians arrived to fill the population gap.

Just a small issue, but the "Poachers" event seems bugged. Whenever I select the option of having my councilmen go and find them, I get the message that they caught the poachers three times. Not sure what would make it do this, so I think its a bug.

not shure why that would happen, there isn't any events or changes to them in the mod:unsure:

My understanding of culture was that it was the culture of the nobility in that area, not the common peasants.

The middle(free peasants, burghers etc) and higher class I would say. If the bottom was to be included the culture switches of provinces wouldn't make much sense.

 

[Polskers]

I'll take a look at some research from the period and get back to you on the rough ethnic composition of the Transylvania area, just to clarify it for all of us. No need to debate nationalist politics here, just facts IMHO!

 

[Aasmul]

I'll take a look at some research from the period and get back to you on the rough ethnic composition of the Transylvania area, just to clarify it for all of us. No need to debate nationalist politics here, just facts IMHO!

hmm looking at this map if the areas selfgoverned by the Swabians and
Szekely can be assumed to be places were Vlach would be in minority or were the population would have been so spares that its of little point(ei Swabian territories), then roughly half the place would be Vlach majority.

 

[Polskers]

hmm looking at this map if the areas selfgoverned by the Swabians and
Szekely can be assumed to be places were Vlach would be in minority or were the population would have been so spares that its of little point(ei Swabian territories), then roughly half the place would be Vlach majority.

It does look roughly to be like that! That should be represented come about 1250-1300 rightly then, I think. But what does the same map say for the years 1066-1250 or so?

 

[Thure]

This version had walachians...

 

[Aasmul]

It does look roughly to be like that! That should be represented come about 1250-1300 rightly then, I think. But what does the same map say for the years 1066-1250 or so?

I can't find one for an earlier period.

This version had walachians...

Nice^^ eh... what would the remaining parts be? now im confused:unsure:

edit. I forgot it was local autonemy and not ethnicity:blush:

 

[Thure]

I can't find one for an earlier period.


Nice^^ eh... what would the remaining parts be? now im confused:unsure:

Hungarians... I think. Székelys are a own group of Hungarians, if I'm right.

 

[Aasmul]

Hungarians... I think. Székelys are a own group of Hungarians, if I'm right.

They are, but I think the rest is Vlach(at least thats what the fine print on the map says). Would also fit realtively well with 1890 ethincity map.

 

[Thure]

Yes, hungarian nobility. From the German wikipedia:

Im mittelalterlichen Siebenbürgen teilten sich drei privilegierte Stände (auch als Nationen bezeichnet - Unio Trium Nationum, 1438), die Szekler, die (Siebenbürger) Sachsen und der ungarische Adel, die politische Macht.

"In the mediaevel Transylvania three privileged classes (also called nations - Unio Trium Nationum, 1438), the Székelys, the (Transylvanian) Saxons and the Hungarian nobilty, the political power."

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d3/Székely_Land.PNG

The Counties were ruled by Hungarian nobility. I don't know what the population were... But the nobility was Hungarian.