[MOD] SWMH 2.0 Map, de jure and general history mod. For a superior CK2 experience

[sir Eyeball]

I added a bit of sea. Vesterhavet, Jammerbugten, Skagerak, Storebælt og Smålandshavet. This ought a make both Øresund and Limfjorden water highways

Nice and with a passage so you can sail directly from Vesterhavet to Kattegat or from the one next to Kattegat Jammerbugten I think (can't read what you named it) and Kattegat depending on where you do the Channel opening. If you do the one in Wust ( it must be the one close to Where Thisted is today as I see it) it must be the latter and if you keep the opening at Agger Tange the first option applies. Historically it was Wust but for game play and your sake (less topography to worry about) I think Agger Tange could work for the best.

 

[sir Eyeball]

acording to this it was sea http://da.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ringk%C3%B8bing_Fjord :unsure:


maybe make it a vig instead of fjord? its complicated to tdo the west coast given how much its changed.

If you look at old maps https://images.kb.dk/kortbog?b=35&s=1# this one from Frederik 5 own atlas the fjord is never there. I could find more but just look at the page it is from a very handy site for maps http://www.kb.dk/da/nb/samling/ks/digifaks.html

 

[Aasmul]

Nice and with a passage so you can sail directly from Vesterhavet to Kattegat or from the one next to Kattegat Jammerbugten I think (can't read what you named it) and Kattegat depending on where you do the Channel opening. If you do the one in Wust ( it must be the one close to Where Thisted is today as I see it) it must be the latter and if you keep the opening at Agger Tange the first option applies. Historically it was Wust but for game play and your sake (less topography to worry about) I think Agger Tange could work for the best.

agger also looks Best, wust looks okay but it makes the overall impression of jutland a bit Strange to modern Danish eyes

 

[sir Eyeball]

agger also looks Best, wust looks okay but it makes the overall impression of jutland a bit Strange to modern Danish eyes

With 2 sea zones bypassed it also makes the passage worth it time and game wise.

 

[Aasmul]

If you look at old maps https://images.kb.dk/kortbog?b=35&s=1# this one from Frederik 5 own atlas the fjord is never there. I could find more but just look at the page it is from a very handy site for maps http://www.kb.dk/da/nb/samling/ks/digifaks.html

thats a cool site will test how it looks tommow, im abit afraid that like a revised Limfjorden it will look to stange without some kind of water, but thère is is only one way to find out

 

[faboj]

1 Up for localisation

And about localisation, can I suggest to change the title of Sindaco to that of Podestà for italian cities? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Podestà

Quote the message: i also prefer Console (it also depends really of the zone) and maybe call Proconsole the master of diplomacy (cancellor) because the problem was that consul were 2, but it's a more historical title, so also Sindaco is good!

ps:wonderful map of denmark

 

[sir Eyeball]

I am actually thinking these new sea zones help making sea travel more important in terms of choosing the right route. You might want to see if sea zones around other coastal areas need a revamp as well? I have no idea if any does though, but with all the good you did with the Danish ones I could not help to wonder if this was a bit overlooked in the past as sea battles are non existing so sea zones have seemed unimportant?

Edit also see if it can be possible to traverse some of the major rivers as this was done especially by the Norse in terms of raiding but also trading and conquest.

 

[Aasmul]

ps:wonderful map of denmark

thank you

I am actually thinking these new sea zones help making sea travel more important in terms of choosing the right route. You might want to see if sea zones around other coastal areas need a revamp as well? I have no idea if any does though, but with all the good you did with the Danish ones I could not help to wonder if this was a bit overlooked in the past as sea battles are non existing so sea zones have seemed unimportant?

They are much overlooked so they probably need a big makeover to.

Edit also see if it can be possible to traverse some of the major rivers as this was done especially by the Norse in terms of raiding but also trading and conquest

sure, some can be, not sure how many would be good ideas given the scale of the projection though. I can make the Elbe Navigable down to Hamburg without much problems, for instance, but having the Danube navigable might be a bit difficult

 

[Arko]

They are much overlooked so they probably need a big makeover to.

sure, some can be, not sure how many would be good ideas given the scale of the projection though. I can make the Elbe Navigable down to Hamburg without much problems, for instance, but having the Danube navigable might be a bit difficult

-the mod Europa Divisa by Elryck and Pixies57 has a very complete overhaul of sea provinces. you might take a look at it or ask for using this part.

-the vanilla scale for using rivers for ships is far from adapted. look at the size of a river and the default size of a ship. but the idea is nice especially coupled with some proper raid mechanic.

 

[sir Eyeball]

thank you



They are much overlooked so they probably need a big makeover to.



sure, some can be, not sure how many would be good ideas given the scale of the projection though. I can make the Elbe Navigable down to Hamburg without much problems, for instance, but having the Danube navigable might be a bit difficult

I cant remember the name but the river that runs past Paris was frequently used so was rivers into Russia and even the Thames (hence the old song London bridge is falling down where Vikings tore the bridge down when the king refused to pay )

 

[Aasmul]

-the mod Europa Divisa by Elryck and Pixies57 has a very complete overhaul of sea provinces. you might take a look at it or ask for using this part.

Will take a peak for shure, seaprovince are quickly made however so it shouldn' be much trouble making them if one spends a couple of hours.

-the vanilla scale for using rivers for ships is far from adapted. look at the size of a river and the default size of a ship. but the idea is nice especially coupled with some proper raid mechanic

It will be real hard to fit given the size but a few might work and I alsways wanted to raid Hamburg from the sea

I cant remember the name but the river that runs past Paris was frequently used so was rivers into Russia and even the Thames (hence the old song London bridge is falling down where Vikings tore the bridge down when the king refused to pay )

Seinen? might not be a bad idea.
Thames, Seinen, Elben, Dneipster, Guadalquivir is probalby the best candidates for navigable rivers(at least a bit of them) :unsure:

 

[Arko]

It will be real hard to fit given the size but a few might work and I alsways wanted to raid Hamburg from the sea

Seinen? might not be a bad idea.
Thames, Seinen, Elben, Dneipster, Guadalquivir is probalby the best candidates for navigable rivers(at least a bit of them) :unsure:

-big estuaries might work.
-Seine not Seinen^^ it is a must have. it was an important way used by normand before they established there.

 

[Aasmul]

-big estuaries might work.
-Seine not Seinen^^ it is a must have. it was an important way used by normand before they established there.

Sorry I forgot I wasn't writing in Danish :blush:

I think the Danes actually hold the record of taking Paris, we ususally didn't stay long, but we did take a lot of souvenirs with us when traveling home

 

[Ruwaard]

Nice screenshots about the map of Denmark!

Regarding the previous debate on (disputed) border areas, I guess doing those right is always tricky and sensitive.

 

[sir Eyeball]

Will take a peak for shure, seaprovince are quickly made however so it shouldn' be much trouble making them if one spends a couple of hours.


It will be real hard to fit given the size but a few might work and I alsways wanted to raid Hamburg from the sea


Seinen? might not be a bad idea.
Thames, Seinen, Elben, Dneipster, Guadalquivir is probalby the best candidates for navigable rivers(at least a bit of them) :unsure:

Sounds like a very good start if at all possible(Seine was the one I was thinking about). What about the Donau is that in play?

Edit Is the Donau and the Danube the same?

 

[Aasmul]

Nice screenshots about the map of Denmark!

Thanks

Regarding the previous debate on (disputed) border areas, I guess doing those right is always tricky and sensitive.

not as bad as when editing Poland , but its a real tricky area, the entites wasn't defined uniformally through time (even in the HRE). For the first part of the game period the german counties were at first only Holstein and Stormarn(and where the northern borders were is not really easy to say, but it sure wasn't at the eider(like the consensus by german historians seems to be it was:glare, but the borders weren't static no matter what. You also had ditmarschen but the started out under bremen. Later when the border was pushed all the way to the Eider and Wagria was incorprated, you had all the gavelkind splits of the count of holstein and stormarn(Plön, Itzehoe, Kiel, Rendsburg, Pinneberg and Segeberg(contained most of Stormarn)). Later when all the counties was united and elevated to a duchy you had an admistrative split of Stormarn, Holstein and Wagria(but non of the three borders match the earlist versions of the same counties) and Ditmarschen.
I have ended up choosing the split of Holstein Rendsburg(+holstein Kiel but without Wagria, since it makes little sense to seperate Wagria from the Nakonids in 1066) and Holstein Itzehoe (+Holstein Pinneberg) since thoes was the oldest two of the different county capitals(Segeberg being part of Stormarn), Lauenburg being the liege lord for much of the game period and not having other subordiantes has also been added to Holstein.

All jolly complicated

Sounds like a very good start if at all possible(Seine was the one I was thinking about). What about the Donau is that in play?

Edit Is the Donau and the Danube the same?

yep, its the same and it won't be in play. It need to run all the way to the sea(as navigable) and unfortunatly it will also be to big a mess due to there being to many provinces that would need harbours(same reason the Rhein won't be added, even though it would make greater sense having it as navigable)

there is also the problem of the ships being so large and the projection so small(will look a bit out of place with a gigantic ship howering in the middle of the map). So thoes that are possible, are short rivers(or short streches of rivers) that are relatively wide.

 

[sir Eyeball]

Ok thats a shame. The harbours do not need to be there and the provinces by the River should not produce boats. It was the shallow seafaring boats that could go up the river and not the river boats that could go on the big sea. As for graphics I see your point a shame for a game with so few moving parts that one small one makes making the game more precise harder.

Edit not being able to go that far inland on the rivers can be defended with the fact that after the Viking era a lot of castles were build on the rivers with means to stop naval trafficking IE bridges and chains.

 

[Aasmul]

Ok thats a shame. The harbours do not need to be there and the provinces by the River should not produce boats. It was the shallow seafaring boats that could go up the river and not the river boats that could go on the big sea. As for graphics I see your point a shame for a game with so few moving parts that one small one makes making the game more precise harder.

Edit not being able to go that far inland on the rivers can be defended with the fact that after the Viking era a lot of castles were build on the rivers with means to stop naval trafficking IE bridges and chains.

I cheked how it looked with a Navigable Elbe this morning and Im not shure that it looks that good(and that ought a be the easiest of the rivers to do).

as visible the ship is massive when being in port and it gets substantial bigger when being on the river itself(twice as big or somthing like that). Having the Helgioland bight go all the way down to hamburg looks a bit better(but it sort of defeats the point)

 

[Monnikje]

This looks awesome! I'm looking forward to it. And I love the idea of sailable rivers. Denmark has become much more beautifull. A great improvement. And of course the Netherlands looks much betetr now .

 

[Aasmul]

This looks awesome! I'm looking forward to it. And I love the idea of sailable rivers. Denmark has become much more beautifull. A great improvement. And of course the Netherlands looks much betetr now .

Glad you like it, I hope Holland is looking a bit better to

Frisia to will get a little overhaul one of the next days. So that Rüstringen and the other medival counties that lay where there was land back then can get into the game.